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King of the World #19: Qin Shi Huang

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Neal, Sep 16, 2011.

  1. civvver

    civvver Deity

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    I would go the liberalism route and use it to nab nationalism. Build the taj, use the extra production to finish off building universities. I wouldn't push the war with Cyrus (and eventually Hatsheput) yet because your economy is still pretty young. Give your cities and cottages some time to grow. Get that research rate back up to a respectable 70%. If things go well you'll be launching charges with cavalry vs their longbows and will steamroll everyone for the win. Otherwise you're going to be locked into a slower war and it'll stagnate your economy. I mean your research isn't bad now, but it could be a lot better.
     
  2. Bigv32

    Bigv32 Prince

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    @ civver While I agree, his economy could use some work, if he waits to long, the war with Egypt will most likely become difficult. Their tech rate could give them some decent defenders by the time he builds up an economy, moves troops, and takes out Cyrus and Saladin. At least take Cyrus and Saladin out first. Then he could risk a little wait, but that wait can be shorter because I would expect the Middle East/Iraq area to have several cottages to help.

    I would say Neal's strategy would all depend on what his plans for Egypt are. If he wants to take only the usually very nice nile cities, I say go for it now and sweep through Persia and Arabia on the way. If he wants to take out all of Africa, then he probably should have a break (either before or after taking Persia, but that is his choice :) ). If he chooses the latter, Russia will become a bigger problem.

    After looking at the game, I would advise war all the way to the nile cities and forever cripple Egypt followed by a swing north to at least keep Russia in check.

    Honestly, once he cripples Egypt and Cathrine, he could easily call the game won (Probably could already because I don't see anyway he could possibly lose lol). All that would be left is building a fleet to head to the new world, and I have always found those invassions to be time consuming.

    @Neal Could you please throw us a curve ball? Save the game is the world-builder and start playing as someone else. It would be awesome to see the Aztecs invade the China you spent so much time building up. That would be interesting to see as I have seec an invassion going that way lol.
     
  3. civvver

    civvver Deity

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    I didn't look at the save yet, but what is the tech situation with Egypt? Are they near feudalism yet? I just don't like the idea of marching trebs and maces all the way across Asia, knights vs fortified longbows is a little too much arrow fodder for me, and if you're going to go for curisiers you might as well go for cavalry. Just my two cents.

    What's the win condition you're going for by the way? Since it's always war vassal are out of the question? So you'll have to kill every city or get huge for domination? Sounds tedious, you'll be spamming cities all over siberia just for the land.
     
  4. Abegweit

    Abegweit Anarchist trader

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    This is a cool idea, especially as Monarch is too low a level for this game. Neil, you play way better than that.
     
  5. bobbyboy29

    bobbyboy29 I was saying boo-urns...

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    He already did that. It was a crazy awesome game, if you haven't read it already it's definitely worth checking out, the best game write-up on the forums IMO. I doubt that he'll change the rules mid game here. Just win this one and crank up the difficulty next game!
     
  6. Neal

    Neal King of the World

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    Yeah, yeah. I know. I was just worried about being rusty, and the RAW curveball could've turned out differently than it did. I'm gonna play some longer rounds, wrap this up a little quickly, and we'll move on. The America-to-Eurasia invasion has also been done before. It was great fun, but VERY involved.
     
  7. vanatteveldt

    vanatteveldt Emperor

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    Actually, so far I think RAW is easier than a normal game, as the AI is really slow in development. Especially on E18, as they start so close together. I think deity RAW E18 should well be possible..
     
  8. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    Well ,starting out as China in E18 is already playing a level below by itself ( same for any Euro civ in the hands of a human ) and RAW obviously make the AI to lose itself ... so, and as neal can definitely run higher than monarch, this was to be expected ;)

    OTOH it is good to know you are not as rusty as that :p
     
  9. WelshGandalf

    WelshGandalf King

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    China is the probably the easiest to play the RAW mod on to be honest. Though I appreciate Neal wanting to come in at an easy level :)
     
  10. CommanderrO

    CommanderrO Chieftain

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    Great to see you're back Neal! Loved reading the series a year back, was really saddened to see you were absent when I finished reading everything :-( Can't wait for the next update!
     
  11. Bigv32

    Bigv32 Prince

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    lol you could just conquer all of Asia/Europe/Africa and then do a flip to one of the Americas. That would be one heck of an invasion to plan. Granted the AI sucks at invasions over oceans, so it would be basically build up and attack. However, it would be an amazing fight because of the supply line issue.

    To add even more of a challenge, take over everything except the Americas, save in worldbuilder, restart the scenerio under a higher difficulty. Diety would be fun to see lol.

    Just an idea.

    @Neal Would you consider using any preset scenerios involving the Earth map in the future? Example the 1000AD map?
     
  12. Neal

    Neal King of the World

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    Hey, all, just so you don't think I've abandoned you in your hour of need, I have indeed played a mondo-mega-round. I just don't know if I'm gonna have time to write it up before Monday. Here's the save, for the diehards:
     
  13. CommanderrO

    CommanderrO Chieftain

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    Take your time! Thanks for the save ;-)
     
  14. MarigoldRan

    MarigoldRan WARLORD

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    No it's not.

    Once Flight is up, you've got free teleportation into captured cities.
     
  15. coanda

    coanda Emperor

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    Post-Flight intercontinental war isn't technically difficult, but on very large maps it can get quite tedious to manage. Especially with Always War (and RAW I suppose), since you can't even chain-capitulate to speed it up. At least when you're on the same continent it's easy to automatically rally your new units to the front where you deal with them as a stack, instead of having to manage every one individually.
     
  16. Bigv32

    Bigv32 Prince

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    On higher difficulties, one unit per city would not be enough to help until you had over 5 cities. Think about it. If Neal were to build this huge Chinese Empire and then switch to America, America would be facing well over 30 cities. To make matters worse, those cities had been set up and run by a human for sometime and there would already be a huge army. The invasion force would need to be huge and/or hit several areas at once to get enough ports/airfields. Even then, the first counter attack would be massive.

    Throw in there the likelyhood of nukes and railroads, and the fight becomes much more difficult.

    If you want an example, there use to be a mod on here that was set up with the world in the 1960s and was a cold war scenerio. Anyway, Russia was huge to start and in the end was able to send hundreds and hundreds of units to stop any invasion by America. I will see if I can find it, but that is how I know a late game continental invasion is hard. Throw in AI productino bonuses and your initial invasion force gets hit by over 50 mobil artillery a couple of turns after landing.

    If this were the case with Neal he would need to be the first to nukes and go to town on the AI before they could get a SDI program running.
     
  17. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    Snaaty already showed once in his one of his Stories and tales threads on one way of dealing with those issues: sacrificial gunships to pillage roads . It is problematic and sad to lose them, but they will give you time... other option is to disembark a fake somewhere far of the actual landing one turn before the real thing.

    This OFC excluding nukes ;) Or even mass guided missiles if you can secure naval domination....
     
  18. Archredbeard

    Archredbeard Warlord

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    :goodjob: Neal

    I see you have knightz before anyone have anything to speak off ;) Need I say more :D
     
  19. Neal

    Neal King of the World

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    I don't feel like I was at my aggressive best in this round. I rested on my laurels a little bit, coasting on the fact that I'm in a dominant position on a difficulty level that's far, far below me. I justify it by saying that I'm taking a hands-off approach to see how the AI interacts with itself on Real Always War. And, besides... I'm still shaking the rust off :p

    Anyway, 1060 brought interesting news about the relative military might of the world's great nations:



    #3 is not so bad, though I'm surprised to see Egypt sitting right behind us at #4. I get the feeling that the mystery AI in second place starts with "Monte" and ends with "Zuma." He loves spamming units no matter what the setting, and in an eternal war with America and the Inca? I'm honestly surprised Catherine was able to hold the top spot.

    The same year saw yet another victory in our Real Always War against unhappiness:



    It's honestly getting a little excessive at this point. Food and health are becoming the limiting factor here. We were also presented with the Warships quest. For building 11 Triremes, we could have gotten +2 Commerce from our Harbors. I decided against it, though, considering the number of Fisheries that were torn up by marauding Barbarians, maybe it would have been a worthy investment. Ah well.

    Border skirmishes with Cyrus continued, as did a steady takeover of the Barbarian north and settlement of the rich southern islands:



    May as well maximize the Great Lighthouse while we have it. Our excessive happiness also started triggering "We Love the Despot" days across the empire. China is big enough at this point that the one-city reprieve isn't such a big deal, but every little bit helps.

    By the 12th century, I'd finally realized that the Persian emperor had no clothes. I was defending a border that, on the other side, was garrisoned by primitives. Yes, it was time to take Persepolis:



    I hate the city's placement, but the Granary and three settled Great Generals were too much to pass up. What can I say? I'm a softy for free stuff :)

    We beat Catherine to Cyrus' northern city, barely, which didn't bode so well for us:



    Longbows are a #$^@&. And that was a heavy, heavy stack. I accepted the loss of the city, fell back to Persepolis, picked apart the Russians there, and eventually retook Surab. I think that may have been the end of Cathy's #1 ranking. Regardless, I also took (and razed) Persia's Mesopotamian stronghold, wiping the cyan off the map for good. Now it was time to face Mother Russia in all her naked glory. Well, not quite. This is a family game, after all.

    Research-wise, I went through Printing Press, which wasn't quite the research windfall I'd expected. Turns out that when you have as many Plantations as China has, working a Cottage just doesn't have the same appeal. I then knocked out Horseback Riding, and worked toward Guilds. It was time to make my army a little more mobile.

    Our scrappy Trireme, last seen rounding western Africa, made its way into northern Europe. What it found was rather interesting:



    Paris is in Roman hands, but Orleans seems to be doing a serviceable job as Paris II. In fact, the City of Light appears to be something of a culture-choked backwater. RAW doesn't seem to have cramped Elizabeth's style, though. She's still chilling in isolation, playing her builder game.

    The inevitable happened in 1315:



    RIP Roosevelt. So much for him having more of a chance. Then again, so much for the idea that he'd die in the B.C.'s. This is about par for him to bite the dust.

    An ambitious Daimyo rose in Japan:



    And promptly had his dreams crushed. A few Pikemen that would need ferrying to the mainland? No thanks. Enough gold to fund 5 or more turns of deficit research? Yes, please. Sorry, warrior dude.

    Paris passed into Spanish control in 1325. Good to see Isabella flexing her muscles, but I'm a little disappointed that it's taken this long.

    We began a Golden Age that same year, and made some long-overdue Civics changes:



    Mercantilism is the biggie. If the other civs are gonna be warlike jerks, the loss of foreign trade is no big deal. And one Specialist per city is... a lot of Specialists. Even if a lot of the outlying cities just end up getting a free Hammer every round from a Worker.

    Astana was a nicely-developed Barbarian city that added a lot of value to the empire:



    So we own about half of what, in our world, we call Russia. But Catherine's half is a tough nut to crack. I had a small but elite stack pushing in. They passed garbage town after garbage town, all on hills, all defended by Longbows. All more trouble than they were worth, basically.

    Before I really knew what was going on, our army found themselves at the gates of Moscow itself:



    With the help of a stationary Spy, and my own impulsive, opportunistic nature, we took the city. Despite the fact that it was staffed by no fewer than 5(!) Great Generals, I regretfully decided to burn Moscow to the ground. There's no way we'd have been able to hold the city, and denying it to Catherine is almost as good. I think her back is basically broken, but all those Hill Longbows are going to be tough scraps to clean up.

    Well... They WERE going to be tough to clean up:



    We should have a long, long monopoly on Rifling. And Rifles versus pretty much anything else is an easy win.

    But before we scour the world clean with flying lead, we have some paperwork to take care of:



    As much sense as Vassalage makes, the upkeep is a lot to bear, and the Culture boost of Free Speech will help bring our cities online more quickly. And, with Rifles versus (at most) Longbows, I don't think the extra promotion is going to make a big deal.

    So I played through the Anarchy, but here's a look at what we can research as our government is reestablished:



    I'm thinking Chemistry-Steel, but I'm willing to listen to other ideas.

    Finally, a look at the world and our military:





    So, what're your thoughts? I think we're well-situated. I'm thinking we swing through Russia and move into Europe. Leave Hattie and Africa for a cataclysmic late-game battle. It's not as efficient, but I think it would end the game with a bang.
     
  20. civvver

    civvver Deity

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    I would lean towards nationalism -> military tradition for cavalry. Chemistry won't help you since you're using cottages over workshops currently and you don't really need cannons to drop defenses with rifles vs longbows, or you can just use trebs. Cavalry on the other hand with 2 movement will let you storm through Egypt much faster once you do invade Egypt. Plus you'll have a shot at the taj.

    I don't think it matters if you invade Europe or Egypt first. Do what you feel. Whichever has more flow I'd say.
     

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