Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Neal, May 4, 2012.
Is Maroon the one that looks kinda bluish, to the east? and Purple to the west?
You should be able to hold your own in a culture war with Pericles. You're Creative, too, and that site's going to want a Library for sure. And later on, you could always send some Vultures up there to simplify the culture battle.
I agree with moving red, and what Oz said about your ability to fight a culture war there. I personally would move blue 1N for the ability to work the wine, and get a few more tiles to the north in exchange for less overlap with green. The only tile you lose is a plains hill, and the tiles you gain more than make up for that.
Not really Lurkin' Anymore
Blue 1N loses the southernmost wheat, which it's going to need to work all of those mostly non-green hills (not to mention that the northernmost wheat seems to be almost impossible to irrigate without wasting a resource).
The painful early days were past. The rude Sumerians had finally been transformed into an urban people, ready to expand their empire. With growth, obviously, comes such unpopular civics as Slavery. Our, ahem, peculiar institution incited revolts throughout Uruk. As Gilgamesh's personal guard reestablished order, we received unwelcome news about our neighbors' military capacity:
Ethiopia is normally a bit player on Earth maps, though Zara Yaqob does have potential as a leader. So he'll merit watching.
Eridu was founded to the west in 16475 B.C., and soon saw the reality of the whip:
The Settlers were largely made up of slaves from Uruk, and Gilgamesh saw the need to promote long-term growth at the expense of short-term prosperity and lives. The families of those put in chains were unhappy about the arrangement, but they made up a small minority.
A second band of Settlers neared completion in the capital, ready to strike east and establish a border with Asia. But there were worrying reports of Greek Workers being spotted around Turkey. Pericles could not be permitted to beat us to that rich prize. The Settlers were sent west, to establish our first port on the Mediterranean:
Kush has the makings of a powerhouse, a welcome addition to our core.
And lo! Barbarian influence radiated from the west! Our first Vultures were marched to the front, which appeared to already be manned by Celtic Archers:
Judaism spread to our capital from Asoka's lands, but there was, as yet, no conversion. Gilgamesh thought it more prudent to wait and see if one faith rose to rule them all.
Our forces worked in concert with the Celts in bringing down Khazak's defenses. Through careful strategy, Sumerian generals ensured that they struck the final blow, and brought the city under Gilgamesh's flag:
... Wow. That might be our best city yet! Fish, Silver, Wine, Sheep.... And Marble and Wheat in the west! And so much green!
We established diplomatic relations with the Japanese, which indicated that Nippon must have a land-bridge to the mainland (or Tokugawa was frightfully efficient at getting boats in the water) and made a valuable trade with our Ethiopian neighbors:
If Zara Yaqob is going to have beefed-up melee, we want him on our side. And besides, a Happiness resource this early on is too good to pass up. Of course, this means that Ethiopia has access to multiple Gems tiles, which makes them even scarier in the long run.
Lagash was finally founded in 15150 B.C., and I brought an end to the round:
That was a lot of quick expansion. Our economy's not doing so well, but I'm up to three Workers buzzing around, and I'm in the process of establishing a Cottage network around Uruk to feed the newly-built Library there. Eridu is indeed a valuable Worker/Troop pump, complete with Barracks. Our other three cities are too new to really contribute at this point, but the potential is there, especially in Khazak. We might end up having to move the Palace there when we start Bureaucracy.
Here's a look at our empire as a whole:
It's very linear, which isn't great for Maintenance, but we've laid a claim on a lot of fantastic city sites on a comparatively barren map. So I think we're in a strong position. The next round is likely to be a lot of getting our economy back on track and building up for our first real war, but if there's anything specific I should be working towards, let me know.
You have got to love barbarians from time to time. So nice of them to gift you such a nice city
Playing sumerian, you need to go to priesthood ASAP for zigura.
It will impove your economy mutch better than anything else.
with such great recources, a pyramide might be interesting if available.
What about the oracle?
Economy's doing fine at this point. 50%-ish on the slider pre-Currency (or even post-Currency) is not bad at all, and judging from the pace at which your IW research improves I'd say you're running scientists as well. Good job getting a foothold in proto-Greece by the way; it's an amazing site, much better than on the standard map.
I agree that Priesthood is a good route next for cheap early Courthouses. It may be a tad late to go for the Oracle with wonder-spamming Ramesses on the map, but if you can grab Metal Casting or maybe even Currency with it then you'll be in great shape (CoL is less attractive with Giggles for obvious reasons).
Who's your first war target? Ramesses? The Nile is probably the best land around, and Ramesses might even build something for you beforehand. The Great Wall would be nice (but not worth building) if you can get it.
Oh, and it looks like Zara got the Cover promotion for his melee, which is... um, great news for him if you or Shaka are going to invade him with archers? You still need to get down there eventually and put the screws to him, but that's because he's Zara Yaqob and can be total hell to deal with if he gets an advantage.
Invading Egypt might work extremely well. You gain even more awesome land that isn't even that hard to govern with ziggurats available! And it eliminates one strong AI from the game.
Just had a look at the save. And, uh, yeah, I bet you're going to be shocked to hear this, but MOAR WORKERS.
Eridu has two unimproved food tiles and two unimproved hills. It's working uncottaged flood plains. Kazakh is working unimproved food while two workers hack away at the Silver. Kish has unimproved hillpigs, which are a great tile (four food + two hammers = a food tile with some actual production, gasp!).
Let Eridu finish that Vulture and then have it pump workers for a little while. There's too much that needs done to only have three workers, two of whom are doing the same thing.
EDIT: One more thing: if you stop working the flood plains incense in Uruk, you can work a scientist at the cost of a commerce (which you'll get back when that work boat finishes in Kazakh, which will come before your gold runs out if you whip it). It doesn't affect your research rate in any meaningful way, but it does start getting you some GP points at a time when they're still cheap. Kazakh will definitely want a library as well, and maybe between worker builds you can squeeze one into Eridu so it can run scientists when it's not pumping units.
Far ahead in tech and nobody has rifles (but me). 21 city Sury...no problem...probably use tanks on china. My bpt is too much for the AI to handle but I really just call this a win. I have veteran cavalry and Sury *will* capitulate. Not much use playing this on...BOTM 54 went live ~3 hours ago.
heee...industrial age in the neolithic age.
Yeah, mistakes will be made when you can't sleep and play a round at four o'clock in the morning More Workers are definitely a priority. In my defense, those Workers started mining the Silver before I snagged those Gems from Ethiopia. I figured that raising the Happy cap empire-wide was a higher priority than giving one city a better tile to work. And then, once the deal had been made, I just decided to let them finish the job.
So, yeah. I'm badly forgetting what Gilgamesh brings to the table. First I'm fretting about border pops with a Creative leader, then I'm blithely ignoring Priesthood for Ziggurats when our upkeep is soaring through the roof! So Priesthood will be a priority once Iron comes online. Which way should we go? Meditation (for Monasteries) or Polytheism (for some cool wonders)?
Oh, the silver's a great tile to improve, and you do want it sooner rather than later for the reasons you outlined (plus, of course, the commerce since Kazakh has the food surplus to work it); I just don't think it's so important that it needs 2/3 of your workforce. The best way to keep from going over the happy cap early is to either whip or stall growth by building Workers/Settlers, and I'll bet you can guess which plan I advocate.
I still think the economy is in decent shape--getting to Pottery and Writing will usually save your bacon before Currency, and running scientists when you're not Vulturespamming will keep the tech rate going through then--but the case for getting Giggles' UB into play is strong. The decision of which route to go depends on what you think your odds are of getting the Great Library. With marble nearby you can probably get it considering how the AI tends to devalue the Aesthetics line, but that's a decision to make now.
Personally, I advocate going Poly and aiming for the Great Library; with Code of Laws less of a tech priority for Gilgamesh, we'll probably get it late, which means the other great value of Meditation (setting up a Philosophy bulb) is less likely to matter much. Poly also leads into Monotheism (a high-priority tech for the AI), which solves the monastery problem and puts you in a strong missionary positiokayi'mdonei'llgonow.
I'm with Oz, you have access to Marble, and TGL is such a great wonder. I'd gun for that.
Is the Oracle gone? Might be a bit late for that but with Priesthood on your short list...
On the other hand, you might be better off going to war early, rather than building wonders. My sense of this map is that there's not a lot of great land but that you have some of the best, as does your wonder-spamming neighbor who has no access to metal. Take out Egypt and you're in a pretty dominant position.
Are we sure Egypt doesn't have metal on this map? It's similar but not exactly the same (to wit, Jerusalem is kind of marginal on the standard Earth map, but those hillpigs and other resources make it a monster here).
Very likely he won't be a military threat either way (i.e., he's Ramesses).
I'm not sure; just extrapolating from the E18 map. Either way, I'm guessing that Neal has a production advantage, although war chariots vs. vultures would not be fun.
Yeah, but we're on the cusp of Iron Working, and if we don't have Hunting, we can get it cheap. Shouldn't be too hateful, and Vultures are beefier than standard axes anyway.
Of course, that's assuming we have iron in proto-Persia, and I just got on everyone else's case for that.
There's got to be iron or copper somewhere in the Persia-Sumeria-Turkey-Greece region, and Neal will either have it or be able to settle a city to get it anywhere in that range at this point. I think it's pretty safe to plan on having access to vultures soon.
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