Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Neal, May 4, 2012.
Suscribed because I'd forget otherwise.
Folks: you can subscribe without posting; there's a "thread tools" menu up above that will do it for you. Not that there's anything wrong with an "I've subscribed" post -- though the creative ones are more fun to read. Even a "Neal is Awesome"
He'd be awesome if Gilgamesh hadn't been eaten by barbarians already!
Gilgamesh, God-King of the Ancient Sumerians, had awoken too early. The world still lay encased in ice. Harsh snows occasionally reached as far south as the equatorial deserts where he had lain himself to rest in anticipation of rising to lead his people. Gilgamesh glanced at his unfathomable deific alarm clock and saw that it was, indeed, set to go off a full 14,000 years earlier than he could have sworn he had set it for. He shook his hoary head. Blasted new-fangled contraptions. But there was no use turning over now. He was awake, and the world would suffer for the temerity of that accursed clock.
Gilgamesh pushed aside the massive block protecting the door to his temple and surveyed the land. His people were crude, too crude. They wrapped themselves in uncured hides, and drank from hollowed-out gourds. They picked wild berries and ate skinny conies raw. How was even a god supposed to work with this? They did not even recognize him for his magnificence, threatening him with clubs fashioned from knobbled tree roots. As the vanguard of the attack lay smoldering in the desert sands, Gilgamesh basked in the respect he so richly deserved. Ready or not, it was time to found his empire.
But the pestilent flood plains were too rich for his primitive people. They would suffer and die, as the Mali had in so many other worlds. And, though the muck would yield stunted trees and the occasional smooth pebble, no real industry would be possible here. Gilgamesh had two real options: east to the coast or north into the mountains. The coast was promising, with fresh salt air and protein-packed seafood to keep his people healthy. But empires are built on production, not health. And besides, as glaciers melt, oceans rise. Therefore, Uruk would be founded inland:
All told, we have three "dead" plots in our capital: A desert and two mountains. But the rest of the workable area is fantastic: Wheat, Flood Plains, one of which includes a Plantation resource, Plains Hills (which hopefully hide metal), and Stone just begging to be Quarried. For good measure, there even stood an Oasis waiting to nourish our civilization until some of our other plots came online. Gilgamesh was not overjoyed, but he was surely pleased.
Our doughty Warriors (those that had survived Gilgamesh's wrath) made their way west, where they found Ancient Aliens on the coast of what was surely the Mediterranean:
These strange, grey-skinned beings pointed out how best to pen in the herds of Cows, Horses and Sheep that roamed the lands, as well as some stuff about draining their blood and, ah, "probing" them. After some "missing time," the Warriors returned to Uruk with their knowledge and promised never to speak of their experiences again.
As the Sumerians continued to study Bronze Working and continued to train a band of Workers, Gilgamesh began to meet the neighbors. Most of them were the usual meet-and-greets, the common promises of "Peace in our time," and Cautiously going on our separate ways. One fellow Ice Ager, though, was less inclined to niceties:
Admittedly, no war has been declared, and indeed our "Worst enemy" status was quickly taken over by Mansa Musa. Still, one Warrior isn't gonna cut it with Shaka on the loose, so we got to training another (this will also allow us to grow our population).
So here we stand, 900 years after rising from our grave:
We don't have Copper, and Iron is prohibitively expensive to research. We do have Copper to the north, though, and it could be corralled in by founding a city on either of those desert plots up there on that peninsula. I'm kind of partial to the one 2N of the Copper, since that would also rope in more than enough food, but that would require a Settler and a border pop. Which would, in turn, require Mysticism and a Monument (assuming we're not lucky enough to snag a religion). So what should we do? Cross our fingers and pray for Iron? Train a Settler and send them north? northwest for all those sweet, sweet resources? Or eastward into Persia? I look forward to more discussion!
I think mr Giggles forgot he's creative and as such won't need monuments. 2N of copper looks good, on the eastern dye looks splendid, while east and south east of the capital are attractive spots to be found as well. Get those settlers out!
I like 1E of sheep to the NW or 3east of Uruk. I'd also get W and SE coastal cities up soon to send out scout WBs.
Probably biased (play Immortal) but 1N of the stone looks like a good short term unit pump. Work the cow+copper+stone for pretty decent hammers without the need for a border pop. Also only needs 1 road for trade route connection. You have too much land to secure to not have an early dedicated unit pump. Ofc I assume barbs are on.
Bah. Nocho's right. The King of the World is an idiot sometimes. Yeah, we're Creative, so that makes 2N of the Copper even more inviting, though that hill spot lymond mentioned also looks good, at least in the medium term.
OMG so many recources in so few lands...
You want to build at least 4 cities here.
one in the 9 ressources in the BFC (OMG, and there is still room for 3 unexplored), one 2 N of bronze, one 1N of clam and one near the horse.
the plan will be to build settlers in chains to settles all theses spots and get real frontiers.
I would say, grew up to 3 and build a settler/warior/settler... until all is set
Your worker should farm some flood plain asap for fast settler and you should swap to slavery asap.
for research, i would say masonery to grab the stone then potery (for cottages).
You don't need Mysticism now as you are creative
EDIT: it took me some time to write my stuff, i was beaten by lot of peoples
2N of copper too far away...keep it more compact. So many resources here you get can plenty of cities in close proximity to reduce maintenance and worker turns for roads. 1E of Sheep is on same river
I also like the spot 1E of the sheep, and I would tend to settle off towards all those 'sweet sweet resources' in the turkey area. After that I would throw some cities down on all those nice floodplains and begin building a few cottages. Tech-wise I would advise Pottery and Masonry to improve your tiles, as well as hunting to snag the elephants for some happiness.
Reports of being eaten by barbarians have been greatly exaggerated.
Nice round, good write-up. I'm not saying that when ancient Sumeria mastered the herds, it was aliens. But it was aliens.
That's a really nice capital, especially post-Bureau. Flood plains incense is a ridiculous tile, like having a mature cottage available at Calendar. Your second city way to the north... eh. It gets the copper and has some production (not to mention tons of food), but I don't know if it's second-city material. I'd settle it when Writing comes online, run some specialists and all that. Getting the Tigris and Euphrates settled to pay for a site like that will be better.
Lymond's spot--1E of the sheep--is a powerhouse and will be for a long time, and a secondary production site is critical in the early game. The spot in the upper-right corner of that plateau to the east (where Persia usually settles, I think) is very nice as well, with lots of hills and the food to pay for them. Irrigating the southernmost wheat is going to require farming a floodplain, but eh.
What's the long-term plan? I think you can get the Pyramids pretty easily if you start heading that direction next round, and early Rep plus cheap Libraries plus all of these floodplains will lead to some tech rate madness. That seems like it might punt the chance for a Vulture rush, but we haven't run into an amenable target yet since Greece is a bit far (Isn't Egypt supposed to be on this map? Shouldn't they be nearby?).
Looking forward to where this goes next!
3E of your starting location (3S3E of your capital) looks even nicer as a second city spot. Seafood health, coastal trade routes, good spot for a scouting workboat.
I also like the spots Lymond flagged, but I'd want to explore Turkey a bit more before settling there so you know you aren't accidentally killing off another good city site somewhere around Constantinople.
I think accepting a relatively weak city to get copper with your second city is a mistake; you've got lots of absolutely beautiful places to choose from. You can get copper or horses with your third city easily enough.
@ Coanda :
Although counter-intuitive, it is the best 2nd city (1N of stone). It can pump settlers (10t) faster than the cap and allows you to build units so fast that even Shaka fears you. Easily leading in tech, tied for first in city count (building Mids before spamming more settlers) and already swiped a few spots from Pericles. The mids only take 25t to build as well.
JF - While your city I'm sure works well for you and has good early hammers, the city 1E of the sheep is basically the same city with a lot more food. It covers all the tiles as well that your city covers, less the useless water tiles. Furthermore, by settling 1N of stone you really ruin a good city to the west of it. (although I guess you could settle on dyes, but it actually is a nice yield tile for the city I described)
I'd mentioned a city 3E and, actually, you can settle both spots for good cities. I like the city 3E first due to the resources and early growth potential - without needing early fishing, which really is not a priority with this start. Then a city a bit later for the clam/cow/fps which can also share some stuff with the city just north.
I played this some. There is decent food in that you can get some good spots that will grow and get some whipping done, but not really a true high food gp farm. Also, you can wonder whore if you like (although Qin is pretty darn raging early). So, in hindsight I'd probably go more with a high hammer wonder whore type GP farm. 1E of sheep is perfect for it. 3E is not bad either.
@ Lymond :
I did settle on the dye (3rd city). The problem is the cap just can't pump settlers quick enough. The stone site I got running quickly which allowed me to settle the 3rd + cities faster. Actually would have been far ahead in city count but chose to pursue Mids instead. When all is said and done, probably going to have 12+ cities by 12000BC. Science is good (first to alpha) since I don't have to whip off cottages in the cap to get out settlers.
How does this look for a dotmap?
Consensus seems to be Purple for the second city, followed by maroon and green to establish borders? Then backfill with red and blue to flesh out my core? What do you all think?
I'd settle blue before green. It does everything green does (block off the west from India--notice how the border runs from the mountains to the southern shore) and grabs a strategic resource to boot. If you don't mind sacrificing some production, 1NW of red keeps all of the food and reels in the sheep while remaining coastal. Should make a pretty good GP farm. It doesn't overlap like I usually like for early cities, but it's in mountainous land anyway. Get it up, whip with it for the time being, and run scientists down the road.
I agree with Oz-Man. Blue before green, and Red 1NW to trade the ability to work desert copper for sheep and a plains hill.
Depending on what Greece (the location, not the civilization with the same name wandering around southern Russia) looks like, it might be worth settling a city there before green as well.
Good call on moving red. It loses the Plains Hill Copper (which should stay with purple anyway) but gains a plain old Plains Hill, so it's not a massive loss. And it gains a Sheep. The only problem I can maybe foresee is Culture wars with Greece. Though, if our plan is to take Greece out sooner rather than later anyway....
Good call on Blue before Green, as well.
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