King of the World #8: Shaka

[Terrance888]

OOC: "Nobama"

Great Job Neal!

 

[DMOC]

Go for the Colosseum quest, but make sure you get rid of the Mali first.

 

[Point13]

Also, is Uruk the only city Giggles has?

 

[The Madness]

You should indeed get rid of Mali, their land is decent to good, they are annoyed with you (although that doesn't really matter), and Congo would give all the money you'll need to run effeciently the culture slider in the last stage of the game. Hannibal's land is useless and flooded with culture. Saladin is an ally, and madagascar is kind of pathetic.

You should indeed start turtling up, fill in the land with settlers, and let the rest of the world shred themselves into pieces.

 

[huerfanista]

You should indeed start turtling up, fill in the land with settlers, and let the rest of the world shred themselves into pieces.

Unfortunately, they most likely won't shred themselves to pieces. 1 or 2 of them (most likely Mao, Otto, or Stalin) will get very, very big and start vasseling everyone else. Then they'll come for you. So be prepared. Luckily, both Otto and Mao are hindu, and Stalin (buddhist) is the weakest. I'd try to really suck up to those 2 and make them best buds (until they go to war with each other ).

Just remember that when you start to develop the Congo grasslands, work only farms until size 10 or so, since there's no food bonuses to help you grow. There was a thread not too long ago that showed pretty conclusively that it's far more efficient to grow cottage cities first with all farms to at least size 10 before you cottage them over than it is to work cottages from the start. That will be doubly true with no food bonuses. It will take a long time to grow those cities even with farms.

I have a feeling that this won't be one of those "tech to rifling and shut off research" culture games, for the simple fact that you will be vulnerable militarily to everyone except the new world, since you're on the same landmass as them. I think Neal will end up having to tech the elec/ radio/ MM wonders, and trading those techs to stay at military parity. Either that, or it will take really good diplo. Good luck.

 

[huerfanista]

Also, is Uruk the only city Giggles has?

Probably. This map is so crowded that a lot of the AIs end up playing OCCs. That's great if you're playing a conquest or dom game, since they're easy to conquer. It's not so great if you're playing a culture game because the bigger AIs can take advantage of the same thing. The overcrowding (and the lack of proper AI starting bonuses) also makes this scenario ridiculously easy for the human player who starts in a relatively crowded part of the map (europe or the middle east, for example). It's absurdly easy to take over 5-7 vics before 500BC, and after that the game is just a joke. I found it incredibly easy to win with Rameses.

 

[Neal]

Shaka paced nervously in front of the throne. His automatic inclination was to send out his hordes of Impis and War Elephants to crush his enemies and expand his empire. But the harsh words of his critics stung in his ears. "The Zulu are a warlike people." "Shaka is a great leader, destined for conquest." "Africa's lack of food resources makes it particularly unsuitable for a Cultural Victory." Shaka was determined to make the Zulu nation and the African continent proud monoliths of art and beauty. Memphis and Thebes were already well on their way to becoming bastions of culture, but the gods demanded a third. As much as pride would suggest Ulundi, Shaka simply couldn't see it. The Zulu warlord was troubled. It was then that an emissary entered the palace, bearing rich gifts from far-off Timbuktu. "Timbuktu, eh?" Shaka grinned.

I started the round by making a few tech trades:

Nothing absolutely vital, but getting forges up and running should help quell the unrest in our Egyptian territories.

I rushed the Theater in Thebes and ran two artists. That barely beat out the Great Spy points from the Great Wall:

Great Spies are the new booby prize Great People.

Music earned Virgil a twin:

Yes, we're well on our way to transitioning from a wartime economy to a cultural one.

Saladin built the Apostolic Palace, dedicating it to Hinduism, which is a good thing. I was terrified of the possibility of a Buddhist Pope declaring crusades and overall meddling. Our Arab ally was quickly elected:

So I guess it's a good thing that we didn't betray him for a trifling city in Madagascar.

By 400 A.D., I had a force I felt comfortable about assaulting Timbuktu with:

Virgil's along to record what happens and culture bomb the Malinesian capitol once it comes into our possession. The desert city of Niani was wiped out by an Egyptian Impi sweeping down as reinforcements.

Even in this early age, our Culture has earned notice:

Number five. Not bad, considering the amount of resources I've put into war thus far.

As it turned out, ours was not the only war going on in Africa:

Rome took the land route. I was kind of nervous when I saw that stack showing up near Suez, but Augustus was Pleased with us and Annoyed with Hannibal. If I was wrong, this round would have looked a lot different. But they passed on through and declared on Carthage. This map really needs an AI fix that allows naval travel to different points on a single continent.

Huh. I guess I forgot to take screenshots of the taking of Kumbi Saleh, to the east. I lucked out there, only losing a single 3 XP Impi. In addition, a single War Elephant was left behind as a makeshift garrison. So we'll pick up with the assault on the Mali capital, which you can see is not, sadly, the Jewish holy city:

That's after a turn of bombardment. The battle was pretty tough. We lost all but two catapults, and quite a bit more besides. But we won. All that was left was an Aqueduct, but we won.

I sent Virgil in to pacify the population:

I probably should have settled him, but, hey. I don't think the difference is that huge.

With that victory, Mansa Musa refused to look me in the eye, but offered me a princely sum in exchange for peace:

That's awfully tempting, especially considering the low health of our army. A little bit of healing, a little bit of reinforcement, and we could maybe knock Mansa Musa off the map.

Then again, our army isn't entirely composed of scraps:

We can attach that General to a wounded Jumbo and make a push to take out the Jewish holy city, which I'm sure is at the center of that cloud of Mali culture. But it might not be enough, and it definitely won't be enough to kill the civ off entirely. So I decided to halt the round here, and ask for advice.

Here's what we know about Asia:

Sadly, our scouts got eaten by Barbarians.

And Africa:

That Barbarian city is annoying, but inconsequential.

And the Tech trading screen:

We're a little behind, but I can live with that.

So, what do you all think? Do we negotiate a fake peace and regroup, or go for the throat while we still can? Am I making any massive mistakes that anyone can see? I think I'm on the right track, but it never hurts to make sure.

The save:

 

[JammerUno]

Besides the GA I don't see anything wrong here, waiting so see the location of the holy city before using him might have been prudent, perhaps it is a better choice for the 3rd culture city.
Cyrus is gonna be big, but as long as he's a hindu, I can't forsee any trouble. If on of his neighbours gets into a fight with him, that could spell trouble. Luckily, you can defend your continent quite effectively because of the AI pathfinding stupidity. Also, move the capital to Gondar, it's current placement isn't optimal to say the least. (Memphis is another option, if you plan on using bureaucracy)

If you continue to build wonders in Ulundi, it might start making sence to choose this as the 3rd site after all, what it lacks in food, it makes up in production, but you'll have to see how it plays out.

 

[capnvonbaron]

Isn't Minoan where you previously thought about putting a city?

If so... convenient. If you're into keeping barb cities, that is

 

[Stewie0416]

When are you going to settle those jungle cities in/around Congo? After Mail, i think you should settle there. It could help boost your economy and drag you out of the tech hole ( if you fall in one)

 

[torchic21594]

Good Round. I would take fake peace before pressing in, letting your army heal up. A cultural victory with shaka, something I've never seen, would be nice.

 

[alfon]

Good round overall Neal, I think you should send a couple of Impis to scout the placement of the Holy City. Also, I think that the Holy city could be a better site for a third culture city.

By the way, can you post the 4000BC save, because when I try to download the mod and play, I only see 11 civilizations and not 34

 

[CreeDakota]

It will be interesting to see if Thebes pushs tiles against Giggles capital.

I see no problem with a 10turn peace with Mali, who will care when you declare again? Oh wait I see one city Joao is also jewish!?!

I think the culture bomb is Timbuktu was prolly a mistake but it will not cost you much.

 

[BakingTheArt]

Were you at war with Justinian? I noticed in that last pic of Timbuktu it says you made peace. And I just noticed you declared on him in the AP pic.

 

[Harv]

As much as pride would suggest Ulundi, Shaka simply couldn't see it.

Why not Ulundi? It has very good production and commerce. It can pound out wonders and switch to Culture.

 

[Point13]

Because everybody is worried Ulundi won't grow very well in order to help sustain specialists and production late game.

 

[GeorgeF]

Just build wonders and make Ulundi your Hermitage city, I guess. Good production is good for pounding out the cathedrals too.

 

[Kev]

The Mali capital seems pretty underwhelming - looks like a good amount of desert to the north - is this the normal starting point?

I agree that the Jewish Holy city might have been a better, and if nothing else a city plunked in the middle of the Congo could have provided a decent spot too after farming the area like crazy.

Here's just a thought ---- I know he's your buddy now and all that, and I know that idea is to stay in Africa only, and I know that he's protective, but one last buildup to take Mecca and Media might give you an excellent 3rd city option. The Hindu Holy city - and figure the AP is in one of those cities too... I'd sure be tempted. Could even knock him out of Madagascar for kicks. Would the diplo penalty be too much?

Upon Edit - OK, not being familiar with the map I didn't see that Saladin's land isn't so darn hot either. Nevermind - spread that Hindu religion around and maybe you can get elected Pope at least.

 

[Ultimocrat]

Post-bio, I count that Ulundi can be size 18 and has food for 4 artist specialists (with the SoL, 5, if you settle any great merchants, more ...). If you get the Hermitage up, and some of the big-culture wonders (Sistine Chapel is huge), I think it's a fine 3rd culture city beyond the Egyptian pair.

I wouldn't consider the GA a total waste -- once Mali falls, it will block off a lot of worthless land that AI civs would otherwise annoyingly settle (remember Egypt's city locations from the MM game?). What's the terrain around Timbuktu, exactly -- is that a floodplains cow 1S? Can you post a screenshot with ctrl-Y turned on? It looks to me like those outside corners are undeveloped desert river tiles, so 7-8 cottages + 4-5 artists is the best you can do -- not terrible, but probably not as good as Ulundi once you've factored in the extra culture from wonders. And it will take forever to get the Cathedrals up in Timbuktu, whereas the process should be relatively painless in Ulundi.

Also, can you post the domestic advisor (city list) screen? That would be useful for assessing the current state of the economy.

 

[DMOC]

I think Ulundi would be a good choice for one of the three cultural cities.