Korea: First Impressions

[isthmus]

So, we've all seen the Korea UUs and UA on paper - how does this translate to an actual game?

From the first game I've played with them so far here are my first impressions:

• The UA doesn't seem to be as strong as first thought. Science specialists are quite nice at +5 each, but they don't turn up until universities are built. The Hagia Sophia and the liberty finisher seem to be priorities to get GS for +8 academies. These can really speed up teching to education, and hopefully scale alright until gaining the freedom policy finisher. As far as I can tell this means that Korea does generally have the scientific edge over many civs but it's not as OP as Babylon. I haven't tested the exact math over the tech boost per science building but it appears that only the GL and normal library trigger it pre-universities.
• The Hwach'a is pretty nice. It has 25 ranged strength and -25% strength vs cities. More importantly, it doesn't require iron - unlike the trebuchet. Whilst the treb has slightly greater strength vs cities (treb: 16*1.5=24 vs hwach'a: 25*0.75=18.75) the discrepancy isn't huge. Overall, the strength of the Hwach'a vs units and lack of strategic resource is well worth it, even for taking cities.
• The turtle ship is pretty rubbish. It's quickly rendered obsolete by frigates that are both stronger and can move in ocean. It's only if iron is scarce that the turtle ship may see some use and even then naval warfare isn't a significant enough part of the game to ensure the turtle ship is a good use of . Personally I feel that if naval warfare were improved (maybe better blockade penalties/bonuses) the turtle ship might be good considering how hard it is to kill for any pre-frigate ship.

Would be good to see what first impressions others have on the new civ.

 

[spfun]

Turtle ship is worse than a wasted slot, as i would much prefer a caravel for ocean exploring.

 

[insaneweasel]

-How about merchants and artists? Is it worth it to go with them before universities are available (and are their GP improvements worth it?)

-Is it so one-dimensional that you are practically forced to go freedom all the time?

 

[Vo01985]

The game I played I had probably 60+ GA turns near the end because I had 4 very large cities all filled with specialists (full freedom policy tree, statue of liberty for +1hammer and UA for +2science) and I was spamming grand artists, merchants like no tomorrow. I also had the wonder for 100 Gold per great person used, so needless to say as soon as I had my freedom tree up and running I was unbeatable.

 

[Lose]

How about the scenario? I thought both were really good.

 

[JaeChunDaeSung]

I was right, when I guessed the the music for Korea would be a variation of the famous folk song, Arirang.

 

[civ7]

Will they fix the turtle ship in the next patch?

 

[anandus]

Will they fix the turtle ship in the next patch?

What is there to fix, I think the turtle ship is supposed to be like this, a Korean ironclad (and just as useful as one)

 

[Fluxx]

I played a game yday with the koreans, and though it shouldnt be indicative, I did have a taste of the raw strength of the civ.
I spawned isolated on a random map on immortal. It felt like an archipelago at first, and I had only 2 cities till 1000 AD (3 in the end). However later it turned out it was a pangaea map, and I just had the worst spawning position of everyone.

My capital had a pretty good coastal spawning location, but that was pretty much it. However I managed to land myself in the industrial era at 1500 AD, something I found to be very quick with barely any research agreements.
In the end my tech staggered, but I managed to pull off a late space win.

Overall it felt that the Koreans with the proper strategy can be very effective, and using a GP strategy will be the way to go.
When your academies produce 16 beakers per tile, its easy to see the strength of the koreans.

 

[ddd123]

still how many academies can you have ? 3 4 ?
and that far late game imo its not so op
late game is pointless you can win with any war
if you play deity i dont think you can get so late game
multi is the same

so the point of this civ workins is just that the game is based on noob contests

in a real competitive contest you cant really use the bonus, in the situation in which you can use, any other tactic works as well or even better

 

[Brichals]

still how many academies can you have ? 3 4 ?
and that far late game imo its not so op
late game is pointless you can win with any war
if you play deity i dont think you can get so late game
multi is the same

so the point of this civ workins is just that the game is based on noob contests

in a real competitive contest you cant really use the bonus, in the situation in which you can use, any other tactic works as well or even better

If you go mad specialist economy with 4-5 cities running scientists with Hagia Sophia, gardens, National Epic etc. with Freedom, Rationalism and Commerce you can churn out 10 academies for your capital I'm quite sure. I did it in my last game but with Landmarks (and there are more scientist slots than artist I think). This will come too late to be that OP though you are right.

 

[spider1]

I played a quickie duel continents game. The rate of science early can't keep up with Babylon, Babylon still rules science early with that acadamy. Mid-game I felt I was very close if not at the same science level I would be with Babylon, late game I felt like I would have been either even or slightly ahead of Babylon with science beakers. This, of course, being on a small map with limited cities.

But on duel size continents I couldn't really expand and didn't feel much like going to war with my one rival, so that aspect of it I haven't tested on a large map with lots of other civs yet. And I didn't finish the game. I feel like with more than three cities the late game beaker production would be greater than Babylon, others seem to differ with that though. Like I said, I haven't actually tested that yet. I will this weekend though.

 

[ddd123]

If you go mad specialist economy with 4-5 cities running scientists with Hagia Sophia, gardens, National Epic etc. with Freedom, Rationalism and Commerce you can churn out 10 academies for your capital I'm quite sure. I did it in my last game but with Landmarks (and there are more scientist slots than artist I think). This will come too late to be that OP though you are right.

the point is still you can wiin the game way sooner than that

babylon bonus comes early, when science really matter, this one is huge but comes too late and also require a lot of preparation and a specific path in research and policies

 

[SammyKhalifa]

the point is still you can wiin the game way sooner than that

babylon bonus comes early, when science really matter, this one is huge but comes too late and also require a lot of preparation and a specific path in research and policies

The GL will get you two research agreements worth of tech along with its usual incredible benefits, after which you should be pretty close to being able to run specialists to let them take over . . . not sure how "early" you want to get , but that qualifies for me. Then by the end of the game every scientist specialist was getting me 7 science each--I had four modest-sized cities and was teching like mad. I did settle the first scientists, think I had four academies at the end. Just bulbing might have been better in theory, but setting up a few early 8-10 science tiles are better in awesome fun. I'm not a powergamer, but it seems like they're going to be pretty tough.

 

[Louis XXIV]

For those who say the Turtle is quickly obsoleted, why not just avoid navigation? It seems the idea is you don't have to spend time on that tech until you want Scientific Method (then again, I suppose that is a tech you want, so maybe that isn't very long). Still, there are plenty of other techs worth pursuing in the meantime.

 

[Morningcalm]

The Turtle Ship is sucky for everything but defense, and that's assuming the turtle ship is sitting on top of a vital sea resource the enemy wants to plunder or something (usually isn't the case).

That said, I do like the hwacha, and Korea's UA, while good (not amazing), is very nice over the long run. I tested Korea on prince difficulty today and was able to reach the modern era by the 1600s or so. Not *amazing*, but great! Babylon is still king of science, but at least people can now select Korea as a viable alternative.

 

[Oohforf]

His voice acting isn't that great.

Everything else is rather nice, I must say

 

[Morningcalm]

Agreed, the voice acting is disappointing. As is the lack of a mention of the Korean nation itself in the intro to Korea (it's all about Sejong, basically).

Oh well, too late to change it now right?

Until Civ VI.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Yesterday, I was bored and wrote hypothetical intros to Carthage and the Celts (in really is fun talking in the style of those intros since it's a nice mix of historical knowledge and roleplaying). I might give a shot at writing what the Korean intro should have been like.

The irony is that I've been campaigning for years to have Sejong as the leader instead of Wang Kon. When they finally do, it becomes the Sejong show. My guess is they wanted to avoid having to mention the very negative aspects of Korean history, such as the split in two and the dictatorships that ruled both halves (but, although I don't really have any admiration for Syngman Rhee, he certainly wasn't as bad as the North Korean dictatorship). Still, I would use that as a virtue. Start with the three Kingdoms and then draw a parallel to the modern division. They say "Oh wise Sejong, your people look to you once more to unite them. Will you take the challenge? Will you return them to a golden age of science and culture? Can you build a Civilization that will stand the test of time."

 

[Morningcalm]

Yeah, let's write our own intro to Korea in the style of the existing intros! Would be fun. But tricky....how would one make the transitions between statements? Below is a vague beginning with bad transitions.

"Greetings, King Sejong, protector of the Choson Dynasty, and leader of the innovative Korean people! Korea, land of the morning calm, is a ruggedly beautiful country, with mountains, rivers, hills and forests. It has long maintained its own culture despite the size and proximity of its neighbors, China and Japan. Even after constant foreign invasion and war, Korea remains steadfast, its people persevering through hardship, and always hard-working.

Oh wise King Sejong, you led Korea to greatness through your encouragement of the arts and sciences, and your benevolent policies towards your beloved subjects have made you renowned as "the Great". Truly are your accomplishments worthy! Your Scholars of the Jade Hall have developed innovations numerous beyond count, including a celestial globe, the lethal Hwa'cha, and Hangul, Korea's first written language, which brought your people out of centuries of illiteracy to the light of literacy and science!

King Sejong, Korea is yours to protect and guide. Will you take up the challenge ? Can you once again bring Korea to its glorious era of literacy and learning? Can you build a civilization to stand the test of time?"

What do you think? Let others take up the challenge of writing it!