KRYS03 - Deity Sumerians - C3C

It sounds like we are pretty much in agreement Griselda. The rules you state are very reasonable. It has been a while since perused the RBE rules I must admit (It might be a good idea for me to reexamine them) and it may be that I read them before the price was raised to a reasonable level for workers. In part I was reacting to how several people (in other threads) have (mis)stated the RBE rule to be stricter than what you stated above. I also think I incorrectly doubled the number of workers the AI gets when I posted (so where I say Emporer I should say diety because that is when the AI gets 2 workers).
 
Yes, amirsan, I'd mind !!! :D Because :

- this is my game !!! :D (and you have plenty of them...) ;
- I don't have my copy yet ;
- we're still waiting for 2 other players, hopefully with C3C coming in Europe this weekend, it will be OK soon ;
- I haven't made up my mind on all settings yet, though everything random or average are 2 possibilities ;
- I want to install my game properly first, and to see if it is compatible and stuff (then get rid of my sig...), and BTW I still plan to play some PTW games, so it will be a mess...

Still, you could start discussing about the settings. I'd favor all average. And please if you could tell where you want to be placed in the roster, otherwise it will once again be an open game for signed up players for the 1st round.
 
I have found PTW and Conquest games to be extremely easy to deal with. Put the PTW disk in and click on the PTW start icon, or put in the Conquest and pick the conquest start icon.

In other words, just treat them like they were two different games and you are fine.

I think matching the order to the order joined works well. So when you get the game and all is well, just start and play to year 3000, and then I will get it and play 10 turns, then Amirsan plays his 10. I am not expecting us to start until the weekend past this one as I have heard conquests got delayed in Europe?

We may only have the 3 of us (I have tried in two threads to drum up support which may work, but then maybe not). I am willing to play with just 3 if the rest of you are willing to commit to finishing this game (we can't afford losing a player).
 
OK, folks, I have C3C, and I successfully installed it ! :) I hope it will work well etc etc etc...

So far I haven't even start a game with it, this SG will probably be the 1st game I'll launch. I don't have much time to play after all, and I still have some PTW games to play too.

We need 2 more players !!! Come on Europeans ! I may start the game tonight or tomorrow. It will be a pity if we are 3 only. The settings will be posted once I'll have launched the game.
 
Haven't played a single turn with C3C yet, but here is the 1st starting position ever that I got !
Settings will be posted tonight when I come back home. I'll play tonight too.

KRYS03-01_4000BC.JPG


TWO MORE PLAYERS NEEDED ! :)
 
Sumerians for 1st C3C game. I like it too. I'm familiar with rbciv rules.

My suggest is to settle on the start spot. What are Sumerian's traits?
 
That start would be a lot better if Tobacco was a luxury.
 
Glad you can join us Kuningas :)

I have been playing a demigod game to test the waters. I think the thing that made the greatest difference for me is that upgrading is 3x the difference in shields instead of 2x. This means upgrading is going to cost more than we are used to.

A good change to my mind. Upgrading was too effective so I am glad they balanced it. However, it is very easy to miscalculate the cost.
 
Starting save, for those who may be interested : 4000BC save

Yeehay, we are the Sumerians ! The year is 4000BC, and we find that it's a good date to create something new : a civilization !

0- 4000BC : The Sumerian tribes unite together by a river, and decide to settle in a rich place, where food is abundant.
Ur founded : start enkidu warrior. 2 dyes sources are in Ur's vicinity.
Worker moves north-east to the bonus grassland.
Set science on Iron Working at 20%.

KRYS03-02_4000BC_Ur.JPG


With all this food, we're gonna win, baby !!! :D

1- 3950BC : Start mine.

2- 3900BC : zzz

3- 3850BC : zzz

4- 3800BC : zzz

5- 3750BC : Ur : enkidu warrior > enkidu warrior.
We decide to explore to the north. Enkidu1 moves north.

6- 3700BC : Enkidu1 moves north ; he spots a hut and spices.

7- 3650BC : Ur size 2.
Mine completed ; start road.
Enkidu1 moves north.
Science 10%, lux 10%.

8- 3600BC : Ur : enkidu warrior > settler.
The people wish to build a granary, but Ur won't build many settlers fast, so we send Enkidu2 down the river in search for a better spot.
Enkidu1 moves north. We find that popping the hut could delay our exploration and our expansion.
Enkidu2 moves south.

9- 3550BC : Enkidu1 moves east.
Enkidu2 moves west.

IT : We spot an Iberian barb warrior in the north.

10- 3500BC : Ur's borders expand, revealing a cattle not so far from the river.
Road completed ; worker moves south-west twice to the tobacco grassland.
Enkidu1 moves north.
Enkidu2 moves west.

11- 3450BC : Start mine.
Enkidu1 moves north.
Enkidu2 moves south.

12- 3400BC : Enkidu1 moves north.
Enkidu2 moves east.

IT : We spot a Portugese scout in the south.

13- 3350BC : Prince Henry is an ugly man and is annoyed with our people. Portugese have 2 cities, 20 gold, and are up Alphabet and Ceremonial Burial. No trade possible, though I wouldn't have made any.
Enkidu1 moves north.
Enkidu2 moves east.

IT : We spot a Hittite scout in the west.

14- 3300BC : Ur size 3.
Mursilis is annoyed as well. Hittites have 2 cities, no gold, but are up Alphabet, Ceremonial Burial, Warrior Code and Masonry ! They would only sell Ceremonial Burial, but at a high price.
Enkidu1 moves north.
Enkidu2 moves east ; we spot some wheat beyond a lake, next to the cattle.
I can produce the settler 1 turn before, but it would delay Ur's growing back to size 2 by 1 turn ; I decide to go with that, as Ur won't build a lot of settlers, and we want them as soon as possible.
Lux 20%.

IT : The Hittite scout pops up the hut.

15- 3250BC : Enkidu1 moves east ; we spot a Dutch warrior and a volcano.
William is annoyed too. The Dutch have 2 cities, 10 gold, and are up Alphabet and Ceremonial Burial. Prices are still too high.
Enkidu2 moves east.

IT : A Dutch settler pair appears to the east ; they're already at Ur's gates !!

16- 3200BC : Ur size 1 : settler > enkidu.
Enkidu1 moves east.
Enkidu2 moves south.
Settler moves south.
Lux 0%.

17- 3150BC : Mine completed ; start road.
Enkidu1 moves north.
Enkidu2 moves west.
Settler moves south.

18- 3100BC : Enkidu1 moves east.
Enkidu2 moves west.
Settler moves south.

IT : The Hittites are already building the Oracle. The AI foolishness begins.
A volcano near Enkidu1 erupts...

19- 3050BC : Enkidu1 moves north.
Enkidu2 moves west.
Settler moves east.

20- 3000BC : Ur : enkidu > worker.
Road completed ; worker moves south.
Enkidu1 moves north.
Enkidu2 moves east.
Sumer (what a crazy name for a town) founded : start granary. Hooray ! The despotism penalty does not apply next to fresh lakes too ! This city will rock.

Well, not so bad for a start : thank the agricultural trait ! Of course you have understood that Sumer is gonna be our settler factory. We have 2 options : either we mine both the cattle and the wheat, and build a granary, either we irrigate both tiles, and don't build a granary. The 1st option leads to a classic 4-turn settler factory (+5 food/turn), the 2nd one to a (faster) 6-turn factory (+7 food/turn). I just can't decide ! I want us to talk about this issue, as it could have some impact on our expansion, and also want the most experienced player amongst us to take his 20 turns now, so as to deal with this issue to the best.
We are the Sumerians : we are agricultural and scientific, and have the enkidu warrior as our UU (in case you didn't notice !). This is great !
The agricultural trait allows to expand quicker : more food = cities growing faster = more tiles are worked = more settlers (and else) on the whole. Because the despotism penalty doesn't apply in city tiles that lie next to fresh water, we want to build as many cities as possible along rivers and by lakes, and this as soon as possible. This will become our main goal regarding the beginning of the game : search for fresh water. Sumer will build most of our settlers, Ur may build some others as well if needed, and workers too.
The scientific trait gives us a free tech in each era. Regarding the Ancient Era, it will halves the cost for libraries, making them our cheapest cultural improvements. We want to get to Literature as soon as possible, so buying Alphabet and Writing will be of high priority. Don't try to research them : they're too expensive, and the AIs will rush towards them anyway. Once we know Iron Working, buy Alphabet at last civ's price, and keep on eye on Writing, so as to do the same. Building the Great Library (from scratch ? or with a scientific leader ? = very unlikely) may be an option : it will depend on our situation then.
The enkidu warrior is a great unit : it is basically a spearman that we can build from the beginning of the game ; it only costs us 10 shields (instead of 20), and upgrades to the pikeman (same), so that our defense military won't be such of an issue (except the high price for the upgrade : 60 gold per enkidu, I believe). These amazing units will allow us to safely explore and expand for a low price, what are you asking for ?

For the very next turns, I suggest we built a worker in Ur, that will connect Ur to Sumer with a road. The 1st worker is on its way to the cattle : don't build a road now ! Let's improve the cattle and the wheat first. Ur could even build a 3rd worker to improve Ur's tiles, while the 1st 2 could quickly improve Sumer's tiles. Your call.
I think we should go for a full expansion mode, after all, there is some room for it (only 7 civs). Don't lose time building barracks. Build enkidus only, to protect our cities and explore the area. I'm not sure if we should send some more units to explore far away : the world is made of continents, and we already know 3 other civs, which is about how many we could have expected to meet.
I stop my comments here. We'll see how it goes, and make sure we have enough time to discuss inbetween turns !

The Sumerians were happily building a new kind of social structure, what they called a civilization. The land was rich, and they knew (better than other people) how to make it richer. And so by 3000BC they were able to settle another place, which they found to be very pleasant : by a nice lake, they learnt how to make good use of wheat fields and cattle through domestication. "This area is so rich that we will soon rule the world !" they were thinking. Thus they called their new city Sumer, in honor of their people (a little weird, but oh well). But how big were they thinking the world was ? They were soon to discover that beyond those little rivers, a huge world was awaiting for the Sumerians to achieve their destinity... (to be continued (by the next player ?))

the save : 3000BC

KRYS03-03_3000BC.JPG
 
I will take the save now. I don't know if I am the most experienced - we are probably very close to equal and I have free time right now. Then Kuningas or Amirsan can take it depending on which one have free time first. After that, I think we should try to stick to whatever order we have set up based on the first turn.
 
Preturn: Check out our empire. I usually do not build a second worker this early, but I will leave it as it is not a bad choice. Just a different strategy. In conquests we won't get any maps for quite some time from the computer so all exploring will be done by us. I will go for more Enkidu's after the worker for that reason. I definitely feel the granary is the right choice for Sumer. We could have a 3-fer if we could afford Masonry, but of course we cannot.

IBT: Lots of Netherland warriors in the area.

2950 BC: Worker heading to cow.
2900 BC: Zzzz

IBT:
Ur:Worker->Enkidu
The dutch start the Colossus

2850 BC: Start roading and mining the cow. The second worker will build a road through our Luxuries to get it to both towns.

The Hittites have Iron working which is what we are researching. No point in switching though. We are many turns into it. I am assuming we weren't planning on getting it exclusively, but rather it will be one less tech we need to buy.

2800 BC: Zzzz

2750 BC: Wines seen far to the north.

IBT: The portuguese are building the colossus.

2710 BC: Zzzz.

IBT:
Ur:Enkidu->Enkidu

2670 BC: Send Enkidu west to explore. We will probably only be growing westward and I want to see what our lands are like.

2630 BC: Hmmm. The lands to our west are full of portuguese. Expansion is going to be pretty rough. I still have several more turns that I can choose to go for a settler instead.

2590 BC: Both Sumer and Ur grow. Sumer is size 3 so I need to raise Lux to 30 (which is why I built the road first BTW - otherwise I would have had to raise to 50). I have been checking tech but we still can't purchase anything meaningful.

IBT:
Ur:Enkidu->Settler - This will shrink our city again, but we need land most of all.

2550 BC: West going Enkidu will explore S now to see if we have good spots to the SW. The new Enkidu is heading east to push back the fog and see what is around us.

2510 BC: Zzz

2470 BC: Well it is the final turn to choose between granary and settler. We are quickly being surrounded on all sides but north. However in the North there seems to be room to grow. If we go for a settler, I am deciding we will never get more than 5-6 towns total (about the break even point for granary vs settlers).
2430 BC: Sumur grows. By using the lake and raising our Lux to 50 I keep Sumer full bore on the granary.
2390 BC: Lux connected to capitol.
2350 BC: Lux connected to Sumer. We can lower taxes to 20
2310 BC: Whip to complete Granary next turn. It just went under 20 shields away. Its growth is set to be in 2 (If I recall, growing and building on the same turn is bad so I slow it down a turn).

IBT: Barbarian horses are seen attacking portugal.
Ur:Settler->Enkidu
Sumer:Granary->Settler

2270 BC: Settler and Enkidu in Ur head north. Warrior stops exploring to "cover".

2230 BC: Lux to 50%

IBT: Byzantine complete the Colossus.

2190 BC: Lux to 40% we completed a road near Sumer.

2150 BC: Sumer now size 5. The covering Enkidu goes to Sumer to be a second guard. A road also completes and I can lower Lux to 30%

It turned out the extra worker was a good idea. I really needed it to get Sumer up to snuff. It still needs work to become a 4 turn settler factory - it is short on shields. You may need to MM a bit to build the settler before size 7.

I purposefully sent the settler from Ur further out than need be. This was to grab more land. We can back fill on the coast later. I don't think the AI will settle there and I think grabbing land is important now. I was planning on settling where it is and grabbing the spices.

We can finally afford the techs because everyone else got them. The exclusive price was just too high for us. I leave any thoughts on tech to the next player. Iron working is still 10 turns away.

There was a settler to the south. We will be expanding north exclusively I think.

Grabbing the hills to the W of Ur might be good if we can. It is a decent chance for iron.

-----------------------------------------

It had taken all the nations resources, but things were nearly in place. Soon the Sumerian culture would be able rapidly grow and make a bid for the new found lands. The citizens prayed to their gods that their efforts would not be in vain...

The world as we know it:

Krys03-2150BC.JPG


The Save

Edit:
One final note: I stongly recommend not using an entertainer in Sumer even if it means Luxury rate is quite high. All our resources went to getting the city to being able to pump out settlers including a whip which has raised the unhappiness. If we have a goodly number of towns we can catch up the small amount of money we are losing now due to this. If we use entertainers, we will have wasted all that effort and be in bad shape. Note that the unhappiness will drop at 20 turns after the whip so keep an eye for this so we don't have an overly high lux rate.
 
OK, Greebley, nice turns ! It seems you did some welcome micromanagement, and I pray for the next players to do so. And nice little story at the bottom of your log, I didn't even expect you would continue it ! :lol:

It seems a lot of good land has been taken by Portugese and Dutch. They will face war one day or the other, they really are too close for comfort. I'm happy the extra worker was a good idea after all. Now we need settlers ! Get all the luxes that we can grab. Please don't place our cities too close one another, but not too far too. ;) Is it ivory that I see near this Dutch city ? :eek: I guess it could be a target of first choice... Think Statue of Zeus. Can we get ancient cavalries for free too, if we capture a city where the Statue is built ? If not, then we should keep an eye on that sensible point.

About techs, I recommend buying Alphabet once we have Iron Working, to be sure no new civ will get contact before. Then if Writing is there too, buy it at last civ's price if possible, and then try to research either Philosophy (I doubt it, because we will have some gpt deals to honor), either Literature, you know why...

And BTW, please, all read the 1st post once again (and the RBCiv rules if you don't know them well), to be sure you go along the lines of the game. The roster will be edited once everyone has played once.

ONE player needed ! Please hurry up, or I'll close it !

And if anyone (lurkers too) has some thoughts to make about the "granary or not granary" issue (my latest post), please post them, even if it's in a month. I'd happily check what you have to say about that.
 
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