Language and verbal communication

[Gainy]

hi guyz.
Does language as we know it -ie verbal communication- exist only to further develop language? Were our ancestors happier than us because they grunted?

Following this line of thought maybe dogs understand the world better than we do?

 

[stormbind]

It may not answer your question, but I think you would very much enjoy reading the philosophies of Heidegger on the topic of Language

 

[Gainy]

Cheers. I had never heard of him however from his synopsis I am at least reassured about 'western philosophy'

 

[Arwon]

What makes you think our ancestors grunted? A ballpark estimate places the development of language back 150 000 years. I think a more interesting question is what were the languages our distant ancestors spoke like...I mean, of the entire history of human language we're only able to reconstruct it back for less than a tenth of its history.

 

[Gainy]

For the sake of argument I was talking about 150 001 years ago. I say grunt because it wasn't language as we know it, we are not able to trace it -hence my likening in the original post to dogs. If you've lost me please question

 

[Arwon]

Does language only exist to improve language?

Nah.

 

[Gainy]

thx for that gem ...the order of my wording is important

 

[El_Machinae]

This is a fairly kelophelith idea. Sometimes I compamata along these lines.

 

[Gainy]

en anglais si vous plait?

 

[El_Machinae]

This is a fairly kelophelith idea. Sometimes I compamata along these lines.

I'm trying to develop new language!

 

[Elta]

*Clears thorat*

As an anthropology major I've been told that we all descend (assuming an average age of 18 for the mother at birth of the child) form one women 100,000 years ago. And one man 70,000.

That is to say we have only been successful for about 70,000 years .... we were allmost wiped out infact

It is estimated that our throats have been fully modern for the last 150k years. But, that we have only been speaking simple languages ( 1000 words minimum) for the last 40,000 years because that was when we started taking down really big game every once in a while.

For example - I say okay I am gonna go and hide on the other side of that rock and you are gonna chase it from the north south - I will pop out and realising it is stuck between me, you and a cliff it will run east and fall into our
well disguised pit.

There were other significant stuff happening 70k - 40k years period but, the explosion of growth happened around 40k because we were at less than 50k people at 50k - compared to a few million before major agriculture ever started. Needless to say we were at a population bottle neck when we developed language and it helped us survive.


So no I doubt our ancestors were happier with there language it is for our survival more than anything.

 

[scherbchen]

I think that an argument can be made that language -as we know it- is actually declining in our age.

And yes, this is where I blame the usual culprits, text-messaging, advertising (there are some lovely german ads where it is evident that some of the best-paid language-spinners in our country do not know how to use a proper subjunctive anymore), and ye olde intranets.

I am convinced that the first caveman's grunt was "LOL firez!".

But to answer your original question: language is a means to an end (as Robin Williams put it so eloquently in *dead poet's society* : to woo women). As long as that end is reached it is really just bickering on my part.

Go out and woo the frack out of them! If talking like a black gang-member will get you there (even though you are a skinny 16 year-old middle-class jewish kid), I won't judge you as long as you woo!

 

[Gainy]

thx Elta What I take from your post is the reason for our (language/)society being so complex is so we can continue to grow and sustain ourselves. This surely means humanity had more potential back in the caveman days? Apparently things are more enjoyable when we don't know their secrets (ie computer games, magic). Does this mean life was more enjoyable as a caveman, or do we just have wider boundaries for thought?.....

woo

maybe the ultimate conclusion is all philosophy is shite unless viewed from the philosopher's perspective. If we spent more time wooing there'd be less need for such analysis cause we wouldn't care? But then if we do care then it's only right that we analyse... is any method of spending 'free time' a waste of time? should be all be wooing??? why did god make me fat??

edit: biggie, by sharing my thoughts am I wooing all u CFCers? maybe posting my thoughts on internet forums is good for me cause i'm widening my social boundaries?? but then do i really want to speak to so many americans..................

 

[angeleyes]

Language certainly has enlarged our power enormously, the question is if it won't overpower us, the future will tell us, i don't know

 

[Gainy]

I think language overpowers language as it develops, subtlety being important. Your post is certainly quite subtle what do you mean by overpowering us?

I think power is best related to hunger, we are no happier than dogs. However dogs always seem happy, unless they're fulfilling their hunger quotas by eating/sleeping/shitting etc. Is it better to be subservient than in power? But then power itsself is a hunger so those who have it generally need it... mm

 

[Elta]

* I just noticed I didn't mention something in my post.

When I said one women 100,000 years ago I should have said all women come down that line.

and the man from 70,000 - all men from his line


- You can only check your line down your genders line.

 

[angeleyes]

I think language overpowers language as it develops, subtlety being important. Your post is certainly quite subtle what do you mean by overpowering us?........

Without language no scientific development, and now we have nuclear weapons, global warming etc ....i don't know if humanity will still exist over 1000 years.....

Are we happier than 50.000 years ago? Are we happier than dogs? Isn't this like comparing apples and potatoes? Is it possible to enlarge your power (up happiness) without enlarging your problems (down happiness)?



Edit: imo is language a tool to enlarge our powers