Large Map and New Civilizations are now playable

Ecthy said:
Is any of these campaigns actually winnable? Asking for Russia.
Click to expand...
I'll have to do a Russia run first myself, but looking at things, methinks UHV1 might be unattainable.
  • 3 Orthodox Cathedrals is doable. Focus on slowly consolidating Ruthenia region, spam Missionaries and Settlers + xbows, and have the cities whip the Orthodox Churches.
  • 3 Orthodox wonders:
    • To prevent RNG for St. Sophia, you may have to start as Rus first. (So more or less a similar gameplay experience as 1.17)
    • Kremlin is the easiest. Your first research must be Gunpowder. Once it's done, start Kremlin construction, and chop down Moscow's forests to speed it up.
    • The problem, I think, is with St. Basil's Cathedral (historically completed 1560). Urban Planning seems to be way more than a stretch by 1550, especially considering you need to focus on espionage to compensate for the weak commerce output. Maybe it would be more doable if St. Basil's Cathedral is moved to a column 10 tech. Firearms?
UHV2, I'll try a Normal speed run for this, but this would be easier on slower speeds.

UHV3 now should be as difficult as it was in 1.17. The ICBMs and satellites are rather trivial work by the time they are available, unless you are not able to catch up in tech quickly enough.
 
Last edited:
Ecthy said:
Is any of these campaigns actually winnable? Asking for Russia.
Click to expand...
I've actually been working on a Russia post today.

My thoughts on several attempts at Russia's first goal:
-too many cities, too much unimproved land, too little economy, too little time
-3 cathedrals = 12 cities and 12 churches by 1550
-12 cities = your research is maybe at 30%, meaning you will never get Strelets or Urban Planning for St. Basil's (the other Orthodox wonder you might have a snowball's chance in hell of getting) in a meaningful amount of time
-Barb keshiks cannot be beaten unless they suicide against you crossbows behind city walls, because Russia no longer has a horse at spawn (my anti-keshik strategy in 1.17 was a lot of lancers with the anti light cavalry promotion)
Even with liberal whipping, I kept ending up in a situation like 3000 BC China: defending too much land with a collapsing economy against enemies you have no counter to because you don't have the techs needed to make them. And because you have no economy you can't get your three wonders, assuming Byzantines didn't steal St. Sophia's before you even spawn. Good luck getting Urban Planning before 1550, I haven't managed it yet.

Either I'm not seeing something or this is impossible.
Here are a variety of suggestions:
-give Russia a horse that's not in Kazan or Crimea (you CAN get the Kazan horses but after that you're on the clock to build lancers and horse archers before another keshik stack spawns)
-give them more workers on spawn so they can get an economy up faster
-reduce UHV to 2 cathedrals and 2 Orthodox wonders, OR give them more time
-more late medieval/Renaissance Orthodox wonders besides St. Sophia's, The Kremlin, and St. Basil's?

I have not tried Temujin's strategy of starting as Rus, I'm going to try this out and see how well I do.

And a side note:
I really think Russia deserves a modern-era unique unit. Since they're supposed to be the late game communist counter-balance to the USA, which gets three UUs (god bless~), here's some ideas:
-MiG (jet fighter with less range that costs less :hammers: - by the 1970s the MiG-21 short range interceptor cost half a million dollars per unit, the American F-16 was 2.5 million per unit as it came into service)
-Sukhoi (jet fighter with MORE range - the Su-27 series was built in part to cover the large gaps in the USSR's radar network)
-T-72 (modern armor with that costs less :hammers: and without a first strike [inferior fire control tech] - this was the "mobilization" model of next generation tank, built to be cheap and conscript-proof, it's still the majority of the Russian tank fleet today)
-BMP (mechanized infantry with the amphibious promotion - the Soviets took the infantry fighting vehicle mainstream, and the BMP series is designed to perform water crossings with very little preparation)

This is probably the wrong thread but I wanted to get it off my chest.
 
It feels almost like RFC Europe. Play the entire game maximizing expansion and defense (play wide). As opposed to 1.17, where you could place a couple of cities, defend against the Mongols and then play relatively tall.
 
Currently trying the St. Sophia as Rus suggestion I mentioned above on Normal speed, so I tried to accomplish the Ruthenian UHV also along the way.

Moves
  • Cities: Smolensk, Novgorod/Ladoga (directly 1S of Lake Ladoga)
  • Research: Beeline Compass for St. Sophia (Scholarship -> Alchemy -> Compass)
  • Civics: Switch to Regulated Trade (for more commerce in capital), Manorialism (+1 :hammers: on Pasture, +1 :commerce: on Farm), Clergy (so that you only get 1 turn anarchy from the conversion)
  • Kyiv BO: Barracks -> 2 Archers -> Settler
  • Advanced Start: Walls on Kyiv
  • Smolensk and Novgorod each train 2 Workers
  • As soon as Orthodoxy spreads, build (and chop forest) for Monastery
  • Spam Missionaries afterwards
Observations
  • If playing for UHV, you can go Machinery (xbows) -> Feudalism (Lancers) -> Fortification (Castle). At least you need to get Machinery ASAP to lessen the odds of losing your cities to barbs.
  • UHV1 is hard to do on Normal. I could only do 25 pop at most, clutching on 1200 AD. Might be more achievable on Epic or Marathon. (I will probably try on those speeds within the next 7 days.) Or it might be a skill issue on my end.
    • You won't know when Orthodoxy will spread and to which city. Would it help if we make this scripted? Spread Orthodoxy to Kiev in 980 AD (The conversion of Vladimir I Sviatoslavich and his sponsored mass baptism of the Kyiv populace)
    • For run 2: Settled Moscow and Belgorod (Moscow 4S) and managed to send the missionaries exactly on 1200 AD. What helped was that Orthodoxy spread to Kyiv in 970 AD.
  • UHV2 is a bit luck-based. On my first try, I reached 20 defeated units by 1200, but on my second I only got 11 by the same year.
  • I have not yet reached for UHV3, but it looks like you'll have to retake the Muscovite flips after their birth. If not relying on trade, settle Vologda, Kotlas, and one in the European Arctic (Chupa as a Filipino, saying that city name is awkward lol) or Urals (Pechora). The trade gold portion is more doable if you can find less technologically advanced civs for tech trade, or if you can get resource trades early on in the run.
  • If playing as Rus first to secure St. Sophia for the Russian UHV, then you don't really need to win the Ruthenian UHV also. Just focus on St. Sophia.
    • Byzantium sometimes steals it. They did not build it on my first run, and I was around 1/3 into finishing St. Sophia by the Russian spawn. You don't need to finish it before Russia spawns, but at least you should be around 25-33% complete by then.
    • You should beeline Compass first to gain access to its construction.
Spoiler Rus UHV (Normal, run 2), 1200 AD :
1717279979248.png

PS: I WB-ed St. Sophia there just because I wanted to. But in this run, Byz snagged it before 1050 AD lol.
 
Last edited:
Temüjin VIII said:
Currently trying the St. Sophia as Rus suggestion I mentioned above on Normal speed, so I tried to accomplish the Ruthenian UHV also along the way.

Moves
  • Cities: Smolensk, Novgorod/Ladoga (directly 1S of Lake Ladoga)
  • Research: Beeline Compass for St. Sophia (Scholarship -> Alchemy -> Compass)
  • Civics: Switch to Regulated Trade (for more commerce in capital), Manorialism (+1 :hammers: on Pasture, +1 :commerce: on Farm), Clergy (so that you only get 1 turn anarchy from the conversion)
  • Kyiv BO: Barracks -> 2 Archers -> Settler
  • Advanced Start: Walls on Kyiv
  • Smolensk and Novgorod each train 2 Workers
  • As soon as Orthodoxy spreads, build (and chop forest) for Monastery
  • Spam Missionaries afterwards
Observations
  • If playing for UHV, you can go Machinery (xbows) -> Feudalism (Lancers) -> Fortification (Castle). At least you need to get Machinery ASAP to lessen the odds of losing your cities to barbs.
  • UHV1 is hard to do on Normal. I could only do 25 pop at most, clutching on 1200 AD. Might be more achievable on Epic or Marathon. (I will probably try on those speeds within the next 7 days.) Or it might be a skill issue on my end.
    • You won't know when Orthodoxy will spread and to which city. Would it help if we make this scripted? Spread Orthodoxy to Kiev in 980 AD (The conversion of Vladimir I Sviatoslavich and his sponsored mass baptism of the Kyiv populace)
    • For run 2: Settled Moscow and Belgorod (Moscow 4S) and managed to send the missionaries exactly on 1200 AD. What helped was that Orthodoxy spread to Kyiv in 970 AD.
  • UHV2 is a bit luck-based. On my first try, I reached 20 defeated units by 1200, but on my second I only got 11 by the same year.
  • I have not yet reached for UHV3, but it looks like you'll have to retake the Muscovite flips after their birth. If not relying on trade, settle Vologda, Kotlas, and one in the European Arctic (Chupa as a Filipino, saying that city name is awkward lol) or Urals (Pechora). The trade gold portion is more doable if you can find less technologically advanced civs for tech trade, or if you can get resource trades early on in the run.
  • If playing as Rus first to secure St. Sophia for the Russian UHV, then you don't really need to win the Ruthenian UHV also. Just focus on St. Sophia.
    • Byzantium sometimes steals it. They did not build it on my first run, and I was around 1/3 into finishing St. Sophia by the Russian spawn. You don't need to finish it before Russia spawns, but at least you should be around 25-33% complete by then.
    • You should beeline Compass first to gain access to its construction.
Spoiler Rus UHV (Normal, run 2), 1200 AD :
View attachment 692617
PS: I WB-ed St. Sophia there just because I wanted to. But in this run, Byz snagged it before 1050 AD lol.
Click to expand...
You founded Moskva as the Rus? Also, thinking farms or cottages?
 
Yes, I founded Moskva as Rus. If you go Rus -> Russia, it will flip intact, anyway.

I think in Russia's case, Farms would be better. Russia's terrain here in the new map is generally drier, so most cities will need more farms to sustain more pops. You can mix in a few Cottages per city, I guess. It will eventually pay itself off, assuming you don't switch to Conquest.
 
Ecthy said:
It feels like Leoreth doesn't want us to win the game.
Click to expand...
You can always condemn me to play Russia in the next round of voting to force me to do something about it.
 
Temüjin VIII said:
Currently trying the St. Sophia as Rus suggestion I mentioned above on Normal speed, so I tried to accomplish the Ruthenian UHV also along the way.
Click to expand...
Okay, I tried a similar strategy this evening with Rus. Pre-settling cities, developing resources, spreading Orthodoxy, and even building some churches really does help. I think a better player than me could manage the 3 cathedrals requirement by 1550, it'd need a lot of numbers crunching, micromanaging, and ruthless whipping. I think it can be done. Having iron and horses hooked up from the start made dealing with keshiks manageable.

But the problem of that third Orthodox wonder remains. I can't even get close to Urban Planning by 1550 in any of my Russia play-throughs. Even at 9 cities I was at 30% research.

Other thoughts:
Since I've been keeping an eye on western Europe during these attempts, I can confirm my earlier belief that either Moors are too strong or Spain is too weak, leaving them bottled up in the north of Iberia. I've seen every European country except Spain get conquerors now, even Italy and Poland.
Ottomans also might need some help down the line. I see them getting vassalized by the Turks and Mongols with alarming regularity.
 
I've noticed that some leaders for certain civilizations are missing, especially controversial ones like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Mussolini, and Khomeini. Are they going to return at some point, or have they been scrapped entirely?
 
I tried the new Assyria civ from git development (1.18).
The gold requirement on UHV 1 seems very hard (750 gold from conquering cities).
I played on Marathon game speed and conquered everything required for UHV 2 (conquer Mesopomania, Persia, Levant and Egypt).
Still I not even half way to the gold requirement on UHV 1.
Both the Siege Ram and Azmaru unique units seems overpowered with their +50% city attack.
 
ShinobiHus92 said:
I've noticed that some leaders for certain civilizations are missing, especially controversial ones like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Mussolini, and Khomeini. Are they going to return at some point, or have they been scrapped entirely?
Click to expand...
Nothing changed for these leaders, they are still there.
 
ShinobiHus92 said:
I've noticed that some leaders for certain civilizations are missing, especially controversial ones like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Mussolini, and Khomeini. Are they going to return at some point, or have they been scrapped entirely?
Click to expand...
Those are conditional leaders that require specific civics, so they don't show up in your leader choices.
 
When playing as Assyria I also noticed that Desert was only passable when within player borders.
I could walk through the desert when declaring war on Egeypt because it was in their culture border.
But after capturing their cities and the culture border shrunk I could not go back with my units.
This seems like an unwanted feature?
 
DanLT3 said:
When playing as Assyria I also noticed that Desert was only passable when within player borders.
I could walk through the desert when declaring war on Egeypt because it was in their culture border.
But after capturing their cities and the culture border shrunk I could not go back with my units.
This seems like an unwanted feature?
Click to expand...
It's fine imo.
 
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