Large Map and New Civilizations are now playable

[urbestfriend]

For me it feels 75% weak china that collapse before mongols spawn, 25% OMGWTF game breaking china no in between

 

[Leoreth]

Yeah that sounds like history, but does not exactly make for a satisfying gameplay experience. I think one aspect to address this is to improve the tech speed of the game in general and China's modifiers. But I am also wondering if China's respawns should work differently. I would prefer a situation where they come back more quickly and reliably but are not immediately restored to all Chinese cities. It's a poor representation of China's historical periods of fragmentation but still preferable to either no China and immediate return to super China.

Does anyone have experiences with what state China is in after respawn? Does the respawn catapult them ahead from a tech perspective?

 

[DanLT3]

China respawned in my Paragon/Marathon game after Mongols collapsed.
They were big teach leader and despite optimal espionage setup with many vassals who I directed research for, everyone in Europe was far behind China.
China finished The Eiffel Tower in 1618 AD!
Savegame attached.

 

[AOS9001]

I would prefer a situation where they come back more quickly and reliably but are not immediately restored to all Chinese cities. It's a poor representation of China's historical periods of fragmentation but still preferable to either no China and immediate return to super China.

Does anyone have experiences with what state China is in after respawn? Does the respawn catapult them ahead from a tech perspective?

Cough cough dynastic cycles UP

In one of my Russia games before the civics change respawn China was VERY strong. We were very close in score for most of the renaissance and early to mid industrial, they started being consistently behind me in the mid industrial, but I only truly pulled away from them once I got Lubyanka and state party and stole all Britain’s techs.

 

[AOS9001]

Ran a casual Inca game to see what Europe did by 1700 with zero player interference. Portugal found me only in the 1680s, luckily they stumbled upon a worker in southern Chile and not my actual empire. But what about their big yellow neighbor?

Spain, I...

Spoiler :

This is so sad. Alexa, play the Titanic theme song. Meanwhile, Portugal completely ignored Brazil and left it to the Dutch:

Spoiler :

You can see French Sao Paulo and Spanish Montevideo on the minimap. And only England settled anywhere in North America:

Spoiler :

I think the new civics might have nerfed the "default" game (regent/normal speed) a little too much for the Europeans. Maybe I should run these games on epic or on monarch difficulty instead?

 

[AOS9001]

This time I did a 600 AD Prussia start on monarch/normal while I made dinner. Here's the world I found when I came back to the computer:

Spoiler Super Turkey, from the Nieman river to the White/Blue Nile fork :

Spoiler Big Leon and dead Portugal :

Spoiler Are these the remains of a Portuguese empire?* :

Note the barbarian arquebusiers in Peru, Chile, and Mexico. Also note the barbarian Tercio in Florida, indicating Spain also had a partial collapse at some point.

Spoiler Weak Russia :

Spoiler Mughals close to their historic extent in 1700 :

Some other notes:

• Poland doesn't seem to ever have spawned, I didn't know it was still conditional
• Turkey, Arabia, China, Japan, and Mughals are all teching very well, just slightly behind Prussia and the Netherlands. Netherlands is probably the tech leader, followed by newly-spawned Prussia.
• The rest of Europe is woefully behind, Italy and England doesn't even have firearms in 1700. My theory is that this is the timeline where Martin Luther and the Sultan of Turkey teamed up and got into a tech race with East Asia. The Catholic Europeans are utterly irrelevant.
• For some reason the Dutch conquered Yucutan. They have New York and Sao Louis in Brazil. Besides Spanish Havana and formerly Spanish Miami, these are the only other European colonies in 1700. A few turns into this game and Spain will found Santo Domingo.
• England and France have done almost no exploring besides taking a peek at North America and the Caribbean
• *I did a closer investigation in the worldbuilder data screens to find out who tried to kill the Incas and Aztecs. Portugal didn't, they died before finishing the medieval tech tree. They didn't even have compass researched when they collapsed. I wonder who killed them?
• Who killed the Aztecs and Incas then, where did those arquebusiers come from? Not a single civ had vision of Cuzco in the entire game, even dead ones (besides Incas). I can only imagine these barbarian arquebusiers were spawned by the game when those civs collapsed on their own. Which means the Europeans were too behind in tech to go meet them when they were alive...

In summary, I think the manorialism change brutally impacted Europe, at least on normal speed. But my sample size right now is half a dozen games. Combine the new manorialism limiting city growth with the new tiny cores most European civs have (except Germany, biased game dev!!!!!!) and the much larger map means weak colonial civs with little to no colonial game. Any colonial civ that does try to colonize collapses very early on. The Dutch, who spawn with individualism in easy reach, seem to be the exception right now.

 

[urbestfriend]

Loaded a Dutch game and founded Protestantism upon starting. Out of curiosity, rolled 9 more starts. Every single one, the Dutch founded Protestantism upon spawn.

 

[AOS9001]

Loaded a Dutch game and founded Protestantism upon starting. Out of curiosity, rolled 9 more starts. Every single one, the Dutch founded Protestantism upon spawn.

I've encountered this too. I think the only time it doesn't happen is when I'm playing in Europe and properly countering manorialism's health debuff and can spread techs by trade. The rising tide lifts all boats...

 

[banzay13]

Played with Persia. New Republic is awesome) With all Babel flood plains and cottage give +2 commerce and free specialist...
Switch to Slavery also (to capture workers, and since you UHV is 35% of population - you don't need additional unhealthiness, don't you?)
Well, as in 1.17 - go and kill Greece with started army, you cant win another way. Give them nothing, but take from them everything © Greece army to big. 4 swordman, 2 Horses, 3 cats in each pack. You'll get 3 in core cites, and 1-2 in other. Plus 2 - from Sur and Jerusalem. I spent time from 400BC to 300BC killing them, and did only 3/4 of job))
Another problem - where can be not enough wonders in the World (in some runs), probably coz ancient world now to dangerous and AI build army, instead wonders. So you need decide go for Cement to build some wonders or currency to keep your economy alive.
And 35% of world population - i think to much. 30% maybe.
I missed deadline for 4 turns. Egypt was too strong. Cleopatra took Jerusalem (and for luck build temple of Solomon and it became 10 World Wonder) and tried attack me at Babel. And i found why Egypt was too strong - it seems the problem with Sea people has been solved in an exceptional way. And another luck - Egypt BIG cites - on screenshot i control 33% of population. But dont think that such big cites will be in every game

Spoiler The sea people have become a peaceful people :

 

[spydama]

I think the removal of the unit maintenance cost reduction effect from Vassalage also has a significant impact.
This is especially critical for Russia, which needs to recruit many workers.

 

[banzay13]

I think the removal of the unit maintenance cost reduction effect from Vassalage also has a significant impact.
This is especially critical for Russia, which needs to recruit many workers.

For many civs. I can't understand, how now you can deal with all many threats in ME time, and have low economy

 

[SOVNARKOM]

Loaded a Dutch game and founded Protestantism upon starting. Out of curiosity, rolled 9 more starts. Every single one, the Dutch founded Protestantism upon spawn.

I once encountered the same situation in a Dutch game in version 1.17, when almost all European civilizations believed in the Orthodox, even the Ottoman Turkey.

 

[Mr-Goriyaki]

It's Good to play this modmod again with the new updates and civilizations added in. But there are some issues that I wanted to point out while I play-testing the mod.

1. When I test-play as Iran in a 1500 AD Scenario, the game glitching to the point of being unplayable.
2. When I play as a Chinese civ in 3000 BC, there were some few bugs that I keep noticing. Such as even when Hinduism was founded, the Indian civ didn't convert to to that religion and instead stays as a Vedism for the rest of the game.
3. In my third time playing as Chinese in 3000 BC, when I decided to switch to the Franks, the Byzantine civ didn't appear, and instead it's just a couple of city-states. Though that's not much of a big problem since they did appear during my fourth playtesting as a Chinese.

 

[banzay13]

Also, that cites AI don't work best available title (finally i saw this by myself in Babel) - can have significant effect in Europe. Imaging - Paris run sea title for centuries, instead working cottage

 

[banzay13]

Is it normal?

Spoiler Celts respawn at 960 with big army :

UPD.

Spoiler Ireland will be FREE :

 

[AOS9001]

Tried a Kongo game today, another civ I rarely played in 1.17. Unfortunately unlike Java, it's still boring.

• Catholicism never spread even after sustained contact and open borders with Portugal
• most of your resources are locked under jungles (your only other core city is weak because of this)
• the fish moving out of Mbanza Kongo's fat cross REALLY hurts your growth and ability to build workers/settlers for that 12% of the Apostolic Palace goal (not that Catholicism ever spread in the three games I tried)
• the Europeans are poor and won't buy slaves (vassalage nerf making them spend on all their money maintaining their armies?)
• the UP feels functionally useless

Am I missing something with this civ? Is it not working, or am I just that bad?

 

[Derdan]

It feels like there wasn't much consideration of how the new map layout would affect Kongo. Catholicism not spreading has always been an issue. Maybe their UP should allow them to improve jungle tiles.

 

[banzay13]

Well, look i'm first made Domination Victory (at least I'm first put it on table ). Where do I get a medal for this achievement?

Now stability from civics reduced and no foreign stability from vassals. So... It's not easy now. Probably best they - abuse Eiffel Tower and run constantly GA (i didnt use it, coz as Persia i had lage Historical and was very advanced in tech)

 

[HNation]

Is it normal?

Spoiler Celts respawn at 960 with big army :

View attachment 694212

UPD.

Spoiler Ireland will be FREE :

View attachment 694215

This I like.

 

[HNation]

Also, that cites AI don't work best available title (finally i saw this by myself in Babel) - can have significant effect in Europe. Imaging - Paris run sea title for centuries, instead working cottage

Speaking of this, I've had the computer choose tiles with less developed cottages/villages (I can never keep the names of the different levels of cottage straight) over the more developed ones. I don't know if this is a bug, or intentional to grow those cottages.