Largest economy in the world in history?

[RickFGS]

Apparently having once been rich makes you rich forever. In that case, China is definitely the richest ever. It used to be the richest, and it's still pretty much intact.

Funny you say that, because when China offered Macau to the portuguese, the first thing they asked was GOLD, because they had none to print coinage and pay wagers, they were beeing constatly raided by piracy from islands of China sea and indoor rebel factions, in fact it was a portuguese expedition that sailed upriver that established order in great part of the southeast region at the time, allowing for trade.

At the time, chinese were incredible closed society, portuguese was seen as a blessing, because we allowed trade and imports from Japan to flow to the mainland.

So in fact, China was very far from rich, there are documents in portuguese "Torre do Tombo" in Lisbon University Center that stait portuguese merchants trading as many as 10 fully loaded spices, silk and timber ships for a single ounce of gold or even silver for that matter.

Of course the nowadays newly awaken asian dragon, doesn´t want these bad times to be remembered, instead they spam the internet and history documentaries with stories that China was always rich and powerfull and invented everything, i even say a historian claiming they invented torpedos the other day, hilarious.

When Portugal reached China, the mere sight of a Nau, caused the chinese to stay indoors for weeks before coming to talk to the portuguese captain.

 

[LightSpectra]

Of course the newly waken asian dragon, doesn´t want these bad tmes to be remenbered, instead they spam the internet and history documentaries with stories that China was always rich and powerfull and invented everything, i even say a historian claiming they invented torpedos the other day, hilarious.

I'm almost suffocating from the irony.

 

[General Pilates]

I didn't realize that a country with massive fleets of Junks needed the Portuguese to do trading with a country that the Portuguese had likely never heard of.

 

[aelf]

Funny you say that, because when China offered Macau to the portuguese, the first thing they asked was GOLD, because they had none to print coinage and pay wagers, they were beeing constatly raided by piracy from islands of China sea and indoor rebel factions, in fact it was a portuguese expedition that sailed upriver that established order in great part of the southeast region at the time, allowing for trade.

At the time, chinese were incredible closed society, portuguese was seen as a blessing, because we allowed trade and imports from Japan to flow to the mainland.

So in fact, China was very far from rich, there are documents in portuguese "Torre do Tombo" in Lisbon University Center that stait portuguese merchants trading as many as 10 fully loaded spices, silk and timber ships for a single ounce of gold or even silver for that matter.

Of course the nowadays newly awaken asian dragon, doesn´t want these bad times to be remembered, instead they spam the internet and history documentaries with stories that China was always rich and powerfull and invented everything, i even say a historian claiming they invented torpedos the other day, hilarious.

When Portugal reached China, the mere sight of a Nau, caused the chinese to stay indoors for weeks before coming to talk to the portuguese captain.

Then I must question the business acumen of the Portuguese, since they went around the world looking for poor countries to trade with. Maybe that's why Portugal became a poor and backwater country itself soon enough.

Moderator Action: Infracted for trolling.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Leoreth]

Well, you never did repay those "loans" from the greek central bank, did you? I don't see the greeks as signatories of that treaty. Nor, for that matter, a number of other pillaged countries.

Ah, you're talking about that thing. That's usually not covered under "reparations", but war debt, I suppose.

For the legitimacy of these claims, I haven't been able to come up with any formal position of both states on the issue, but since the current (and I assume the contemporary) EU membership process requires new members to settle this kind of disputes before they're admitted, the Greek government seems to have abandoned its claims. So that whole issue did only exist in the world of boulevard newspapers.

@rest of that thread: It proves once again that talking about history with people who refer to their country using the first person plural pronoun is a waste of time.

When Portugal reached China, the mere sight of a Nau, caused the chinese to stay indoors for weeks before coming to talk to the portuguese captain.

Oh, and by the way, the first thing to do to show some lowly foreigner where his place is is to have him wait for some weeks.

 

[RickFGS]

I didn't realize that a country with massive fleets of Junks needed the Portuguese to do trading with a country that the Portuguese had likely never heard of.

MAssive fleet of junks? lol, they were all taken and sunked in the failed mongol invasion of Japan years earlier, so the real questions is, WHAT massive junk fleet? they couldn´t even chase the pirates plundering their shores, really, and i´m the one making unreal claims here.

On other note, the portuguese got rich TRADING, now lets break this concept of trading down, it involves supplying demand where it can´t be suplied, thus the new term of that time, globalisation, meaning in simple words, bringing products that only exist in far away places to your home markets and so on, in the process of transporting and selling those goods, the midle man often gains more profit than the suplier of the good itself.

So you see, you can be a poor country, and still be good for trading, because if you don´t have any gold, like China, you still have a lot of others things that others in europe didn´t have, like SILK, at the time, even more valuable then gold (in europe, because in China silk was a somewhat common product).

Thus, in 200 years, a backwater country, becomes a world power.

Even the backwater concept is hilarious, since at the time, Lisbon was one of the most civilised cities in europe, while London, Berlin, Paris didn´t even had plumming, funny things you learn when you READ books instead of Youtube videos.

 

[shashankac655]

If you start reading history books instead of just watching brainwashing documentaries and movies you might learn something different.

I was asking for evidence(not your advice because i don't need your's),give me one link which can prove your outlandish claims.

By the way your posts tells me that it is you who should really start reading history books ,you are seriously brainwashed !!!

 

[shashankac655]

1. "brainwashing books and documentaries" = any historical source that isn't nationalist Portuguese crap. Lol

well said

 

[Plotinus]

Moderator Action: Everyone please conduct yourselves civilly. That means not insulting each other and not trying to antagonise each other. It might help if people learn not to take personally comments about people who lived in their countries centuries ago.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[RickFGS]

Wrapping up, the Portuguese Empire from early XV century



Darker green is direct control, lighter green is indirect control.

 

[sophie]

Wrapping up, the Portuguese Empire from early XV century



Darker green is direct control, lighter green is indirect control.

lolwikipedia maps. You shouldn't take those things at face value.

 

[Leoreth]

I assume you mean the 16th century?

 

[Dachs]

naw leoreth portugal clearly discovered the amerikkkas in the 1410s

insert asinine "beating zheng he by a full decade" comment here

---

On a more serious note, Kyriakos, do those book recommendations help at all?

 

[fing0lfin]

Australia controled by Portugal in XV century ? Are you sure that there is not some territory in Siberia controled by Portugal missing in this map ?!

 

[Kyriakos]

Since we have very little idea of the population of the Empire at the time it would be foolish to make a GDP estimate. But for information on the economic situation - our best guesses as to How It All Worked - I'd recommend the collection of essays edited by Paul Magdalino on Byzantium around the year 1000 and Jean-Claude Cheynet's work on the Anatolian aristocracy. Katherine Holmes on Basileios II and the Governance of the Byzantine Empire may also be useful.

Thank you, i trust (if they are not from 2010- ) that i might be able to find them

Any idea as to the Prussian question in the other thread?

 

[LightSpectra]

lolwikipedia maps. You shouldn't take those things at face value.

That isn't a Wikipedia map. That's a map that the poster in question presumably took from Wikipedia, and then arbitrarily added more green to add impressiveness.

 

[say1988]

Yeah, wikipedia's anachronistic map every part of the Portuguese Empire is not nearly that extensive:

Lets not blame wiki for that map.

 

[aelf]

So you see, you can be a poor country, and still be good for trading, because if you don´t have any gold, like China, you still have a lot of others things that others in europe didn´t have

Wait, so rich ≡ has lots of gold now? Tell that to all the rich people in the world. I'm sure they'd like to know that they aren't as rich as they thought.

 

[fing0lfin]

Kind of.. Certianly when you have a lot of gold( no matter in which century) you are rich. It used to be an universal currency and still is. Throughout history many goods had a value near or even bigger than the gold(i.e. spices, salt, silk - varrying on the region and time) but gold is still the universal standart. So having a lot of gold generally means you are rich. And the advantage of gold to all other goods was/is that it is universas. Though not having much gold doesn't make you neccasery poor country, but you certainly have less trade oppertunities than the gold-rich ones.

 

[Lord Baal]

Australia controled by Portugal in XV century ? Are you sure that there is not some territory in Siberia controled by Portugal missing in this map ?!

Australian Aborigines are just the descendants of Portuguese shipwreck victims. Do you seriously not know this? :crazyeyes:

Fun fact: the first (official) British possession in India, Bombay, was given to the Prince of Wales by his Portuguese counterpart (allegedly) as a wedding gift. So Britain didn't even "stoled" the Portuguese 'Empire' in India. It was given to them. Largely because Portugal couldn't afford it. You'll note that the only parts of India the British didn't take over were the huge number (3) of Portugeuese coastal ports. That was left for Nehru in 1961.