Leaderhead request: Louis XIV

[mitsho]

Joan is leader of France because she is female

But you shouldn't take this too serious, they had to take a leader for each civ, and there are more than one choice in most civs...

Louis XIV, le roi soleil is a good choice. (At the moment I must think of "l'état, c'est moi!" and that reminds me of a word of a headteacher: "l'école, c'est moi!" )

And Napoleon did do a lot of peaceful things, the napoleonic code is just one of those. He was probably the first 'social' (for his time!) ruler.

mfG mitsho

 

[bombshoo]

Cough, cough... have you ever heard about 100 years war? Joan had saved the French monarchy from English: this is the reason because she's the Civ3 leader. BTW, I have already said that I prefer Bonaparte.

Yeah, but had she not been a female teenager, I doubt she would be all that famous today. Don't get me wrong, Its amazing how she convinced them to lead the army and she did a good job, but there have many other leaders in history just as good as her, that are not remembered. Civilization picked her, because they obviously wanted some female leaders, but almost all of the ones they picked were'nt any good. To this day I think, the only female leaderheads which best represent their nation are Isabella, Elizabeth, and Cathrine. The others Joan (was military leader), Cleopatra (was Greek and ended her civilization), Theodora (had alot influence in the court, but still there is no getting around Justintinian was the leader)

Louis tops them both (Napolean and Joan), because of his statement "I am the state". And essentially thats what Civ III is about.



And yes I agree, more then one choice for each civ is nice, and I would probaly use all three still depending on what scenario I was playing. Actually if I could, I would have a female and male leader for civ. Hmmmm....gives me an idea...A cat fight mod....All wemon leaders, and all wemon units...

 

[Anarki]

I would prefer Napoleon, but anything to get rid of Joan.

 

[Rhye]

I would prefer Napoleon, but anything to get rid of Joan.

And I would prefer Louis, but anything to get rid of Joan.

Come ooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

 

[Mobilize]

Napoleon was a much better leader than Louis XIV. Napoleon wasn't a dictator at first, he was a general gone president. The people loved him. Didn't anyone take history? He gave the commoners land, education, equal rights. Even when he was exiled, the people loved him and helped him gain power again. I don't think they would do such with Hitler.

Louis is play ugly, and his hair.. and his witch nose.. bleh.. I prefer Napoleon in Louis' clothes, I couldn't stomach Louis for four eras.

 

[Yoda Power]

Mobilize- Louis did quite alot for the country too, maybe not the people, but he rebuilded the army and navy, won many wars and made alot of reforms. He also represents the golden age of France(though some might ague that Nap does too). Also Nepoleon still wasn't French

 

[mitsho]

@yoda power, napoleon was french. Of course, he was born in corsica, but what does this say? he led the french nation at the beginning of nationalism. Saying that Napoleon isn't french is a bit stubborn I think.

mitsho

 

[Rhye]

He was born in Corsica the year before it was given to France (by Genova). For that reason Napoleon faked his birth year.

 

[Yoda Power]

@yoda power, napoleon was french. Of course, he was born in corsica, but what does this say? he led the french nation at the beginning of nationalism. Saying that Napoleon isn't french is a bit stubborn I think.

mitsho

He wasn't French, he just pretended to be. His parents were of Corsican nationality.

However if this was the only argument against him being leader, I wouldn't oppose it, but there are more.

 

[mitsho]

You didn't listen to me. Corsica is French. We are not talking about states or nationalities but about civilizations. And from this point, Corsica is French, just because of Napoleon.
It's the same as I would tell you that you are not Danish, but just Arhusian (stupid example I know, and not sure if everything spelled right but you get the idea!).

mfG mitsho

 

[Yoda Power]

You didn't listen to me. Corsica is French. We are not talking about states or nationalities but about civilizations. And from this point, Corsica is French, just because of Napoleon.
It's the same as I would tell you that you are not Danish, but just Arhusian (stupid example I know, and not sure if everything spelled right but you get the idea!).

mfG mitsho

So if Mexico conquerd the US you would be a Mexican automaticly? Corsica belongs not to French civilization but rather to its own(or atleast Italian). Their have a different culture. I do get your point(I guess you considder yourself "American" even though you are also a "Native American" (now I'm gonna be really embarrased if I have mistaken you for someone else edit: which I did, you are not Mobilize you are mitsho )). I think its just a matter of definition, and we have different definitions about it

Well I wont argue more against or for a Nap or Lou head, as both really could be quite usefull(for scenarios and such).

 

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Actually Corsica was part of Genua Republic. It become french on 1789.

 

[mitsho]

@yodapower ok, that's a good consens, I agree. And yes, I'm not Indian, rather Swiss And for that example, I am Swiss, but I consider myself also being European!

mitsho

 

[Rhye]

Louis or Napoleon....we need a leaderhead creator. There are some, but they keep making quite useless (well, for me) leaderheads of unknown (for me) people. The new french leaderhead to substitute the stupid original is so needed.

 

[The Black Glove]

Napoleon Deserves to be the French leader over the other alternatives.

Reason #1: Louis was a coward. Joan was a mystic. Napoleon was a genius.

Reason #2: Louis drove his country bankrupt. Joan got herself burned. Napoleon made France a modern nation and replaced its corrupt Govt with a stable one (The only reason he lost was because he invaded Russia).

Reason #3: Louis was intolerant of Hugenots (without whom he would not have been king). Joan upheld an inefficient king. Napoleon replaced an inefficient government.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Napoleon Deserves to be the French leader over the other alternatives.

Reason #1: Louis was a coward. Joan was a mystic. Napoleon was a genius.

Reason #2: Louis drove his country bankrupt. Joan got herself burned. Napoleon made France a modern nation and replaced its corrupt Govt with a stable one (The only reason he lost was because he invaded Russia).

Reason #3: Louis was intolerant of Hugenots (without whom he would not have been king). Joan upheld an inefficient king. Napoleon replaced an inefficient government.

@ Reason 2: When I think of the French government since Napoleon, STABLE is not the word that comes to mind. Napoleon was in trouble long before he invaded Russia if for no other reason that he encouraged nationalism in the places he conquered and so then they turned around and demanded self-rule. It was a somewhat self-defeating message for a man who wants to rule the world. I think if anything, France was more stable under the monarchs like Louis. Napoleon also spent France into the ground as well don't forget. He was fighting.... ohhhh... all of Europe.

 

[The Black Glove]

@ Reason 2: When I think of the French government since Napoleon, STABLE is not the word that comes to mind. Napoleon was in trouble long before he invaded Russia if for no other reason that he encouraged nationalism in the places he conquered and so then they turned around and demanded self-rule. It was a somewhat self-defeating message for a man who wants to rule the world. I think if anything, France was more stable under the monarchs like Louis. Napoleon also spent France into the ground as well don't forget. He was fighting.... ohhhh... all of Europe.

Actually Napoleon's government was very stable but he was defeated and it was replaced.

Also Napoleon's big military mistake was invading Russia. as Vizzini said, the most famous strategical mistake is "Never get involved in a land war in Asia" Both Napoleon and Adolf Hitler made this military blunder.

 

[Rhye]

Our wait is finally over.

Go here, to celebrate our new Emperor: R8XFT's Napoleon!
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=96503

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Our wait is finally over.

Go here, to celebrate our new Emperor: R8XFT's Napoleon!
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=96503

I'm delighted to oblige !!

It really should have been done earlier. Still - it's here now!

 

[kryszcztov]

As a French myself, and as said many times before at CFC, I think Louis XIV is the best ruler France can have in a game like Civ. Louis was the French ruler in Civ2, replacing Civ1's Napoleon, and I was delighted with it, and that Louis was quite hard in diplomacy, uneasy to weedle, and liked to show his strength. I miss that. Joan really should be an MGL (which she only was), and Napoleon too (which he was before becoming Emperor), though if I had to choose between both of them, I'd choose Napoleon of course, because he was a ruler !!! Louis was the Sun King, the French king during France's peak (golden age ?), who ruled for many decades. He is the incarnation of the absolute monarchy, and the Château de Versailles represents his power and megalomania. He said "L'Etat c'est moi" ("The State is me"), which he really was after all. He won many wars (lost some too), extended the territory, and the country was the most populated one in Europe at those times (about 20,000,000). And the musketeers were used under Louis XIII's reign and his. Even if no one is perfect (France wasn't in great shape in 1715 when he died), he is the absolutely logical ruler for Civ.

Even if Milla Jovovich is a pretty girl, I'm asking Firaxis to reconsider Louis XIV as the French ruler in Civ4.

BTW : Corsica was sold to France in 1768, even if it led to problems before being really part of what was to become the French Republic.