Let the mud fly!

Whomp

Keep Calm and Carry On
Retired Moderator
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Well it looks like political season is well under way. It's Rock 'em sock 'em robots as the gloves come off!
I'm exhausted already!
Spoiler :
US News and World Report said:
The fallout from comments made by Hollywood mogul David Geffen, a supporter of Sen. Barack Obama's presidential campaign, that appeared in Wednesday's Maureen Dowd column in the New York Times dominates the political news today, with two broadcast networks and several major newspapers reporting on the back-and-forth between the Obama and Sen. Hillary Clinton campaigns. The story eclipsed coverage of a forum for Democratic candidates in Nevada that was attended by eight candidates, with only Obama absent. ABC World News said that though "there are more than 10 months to go until we even get to the presidential election year," Clinton and Obama "were sniping at one another, as if the campaign were in midstream." ABC News said that in the Dowd column, Geffen "lashed out at both Clintons, saying, 'Everybody in politics lies. But they do it with such ease, it's troubling.' Geffen also alluded to the former 'president's personal life, calling him 'a reckless guy,' and insinuating he has not changed since the Monica Lewinsky days. ... Geffen has no official role with the Obama campaign. But almost immediately the Clinton campaign went after Obama, saying he was hypocritical for tolerating Geffen's comments, given Obama's pitch against negative campaigning." The CBS Evening News said that Clinton and Obama "are trading jabs in their first public spat" and added that, despite the early date, "the campaigns of the two most famous Democrats were already hissing at each other."

The Washington Post headlines its front-page report "Clinton, Obama Camps' Feud Is Out In The Open," and leads by saying "an increasingly acrimonious competition" between Clinton and Obama "to enlist the Democratic Party's leading fundraisers and operatives burst into the open yesterday, overshadowing what was billed as the presidential campaign's first gathering of candidates in Nevada." On its front page, the New York Times calls it a "remarkably caustic exchange between the Clinton and Obama campaigns that highlighted the sensitivity in the Clinton camp to Mr. Obama's rapid rise as a rival and his positioning as a fresh face unburdened by the baggage borne by Mrs. Clinton." The AP said the Clinton and Obama camps "traded accusations of nasty politics" over the Geffen comments. While the Clinton campaign "demanded that Obama denounce comments made by the DreamWorks movie studio founder," Obama, campaigning in Iowa, refused, saying, "It's not clear to me why I'd be apologizing for someone else's remark." The Clinton camp "seemed also to be sending a warning to mudslinging critics that they would be dealt with fiercely." The Wall Street Journal writes that an "email fusillade" yesterday "left many Democrats shaking their heads that party infighting -- like everything else about the 2008 presidential campaign -- is starting so soon, nearly a year before the first nominating votes." The Chicago Tribune notes that the Clinton camp was "perhaps stung by Obama's successful incursion into Hollywood, which at one time was unchallenged Clinton country," and "hit back hard, saying Geffen's comments contrasted poorly with the Illinois senator's self-promotion as a new breed of politician, unifying and optimistic."

Clinton campaign communications director Howard Wolfson took the gloves off last night on MSNBC's Hardball, saying, "Our expectation was that Sen. Obama, who was running a campaign premised on changing our politics, who has decried the politics of slash and burn, would denounce the comments, say that these comments don't represent his thinking or his campaign. We were, frankly, surprised that he didn't do that. It makes you wonder whether or not he agrees with them. It's a little ironic that the candidate on one day would say, 'I want to change America. I want to change politics. I want to lift us up. I want to stop the politics of slash and burn,' while at the same time his leading supporter in California is attacking [President Clinton] and Sen. Clinton in very personal terms."

While there is little analysis out this morning on who got the best of the exchange, two different interpretations are emerging. Lee Miringoff , director of the nonpartisan Marist Institute for Public Opinion, told the Boston Globe, "If you're the Clintons, people know there's controversy. Obama so far has not been in that place. To get him to have to throw a few punches makes him look like a politician. Now they've got him more where they want him. They don't want him above the fray; they want him duking it out." In contrast, in her column for Bloomberg, Margaret Carlson writes, "There's a lot of time left in campaign '08 for a list of worst moments, but it may be hard to beat" Sen. Clinton's "decision to engage" Obama "in a fierce battle over who's a better friend of" Geffen, whose "comments would be lining the kitty-litter box by now if the Clinton campaign hadn't decided to make a federal case out of them."
Chicago Sun Times Blog said:
Geffen, however, is not Obama's finance chairman. That title goes to Chicago billionaire Penny Pritzker. Geffen is not part of the Obama campaign. His main role is as major fund-raiser, a job he completed, at least for now, Tuesday night. Wolfson drew attention to a devastating Clinton column that probably would have had a short shelf life if he let it alone, a seemingly bizarre tactic.
But Wolfson may be crazy like a fox. Robert Gibbs' hardball response, the Clinton team seems to be betting, may serve to show that the Obama campaign may not be as different as it claims.

Obama's response came from his chief spokesman, Robert Gibbs.
"We aren't going to get in the middle of a disagreement between the Clintons and someone who was once one of their biggest supporters. It is ironic that the Clintons had no problem with David Geffen when he was raising them $18 million and sleeping at their invitation in the Lincoln bedroom. It is also ironic that Senator Clinton lavished praise on Monday and is fully willing to accept today the support of South Carolina state Sen. Robert Ford, who said if Barack Obama were to win the nomination, he would drag down the rest of the Democratic Party because 'he's black.'"

Gibbs reminded everyone of the mid-1990s Lincoln bedroom Clinton campaign finance scandals. He also injected a racial element by bringing up Ford.
Clinton and Obama are clearly concerned about how they are being defined in the opening weeks of their White House campaigns.
Gibbs reacted exactly as most would in his shoes: He took it to the next level and smashed back.

What Geffen says is what Geffen says. Its not coming from Obama. Besides, who is Hillary Clinton think she is as far as criticism goes? Does she really think nobody has a right to criticize her? That only she has a right to criticize others? That nobody has a right to bring up her voting record and views? This is 'much ado about nothing'.
Who is Hillary Clinton think she is as far as criticism goes? Does she really think nobody has a right to criticize her? That only she has a right to criticize others? That nobody has a right to bring up her voting record and views?
It seems to me Hillary needs to take a chill pill because this shows some deep seeded character flaws.
Winners? Losers? I think it's a win for the republicans if they stay unified and Obama for standing his ground.


http://www.usnews.com/usnews/politics/bulletin/bulletin_070222.htm
 
Fascinating, as this only plays into the Republican-generated image of Hillary as an angry (well, you know...). Hillary wants everyone to know that she's in charge a year before the primaries, and it might help her to portray herself as being in charge...but it also might backfire tremendously.
 
This is bad for Republicans if Hillary becomes toast this early. They really need her to get the Democratic nomination if they want a realistic shot to win the general election.
 
Ah, but she doesn't become toast as long as she stays in the news and doesn't say something incredibly stupid. She can be pushy and arrogant and play the front-runner, and it's not all over unless she makes a dumb comment about the troops or Obama's skin.
 
I thought this was going to be full of pics from Whomp's latest mud wrestling match :sad:

Anywho.. yeah Hillary sucks.
 
...mud is being slung over the fact that Obama didn't condemn a specific stance of mudslinging by someone who supports him, but isn't part of his campaign? :dubious:
 
...mud is being slung over the fact that Obama didn't condemn a specific stance of mudslinging by someone who supports him, but isn't part of his campaign? :dubious:
Bizarro. She had the audacity to tell him he should give the money back to Geffen.
This is bad for Republicans if Hillary becomes toast this early. They really need her to get the Democratic nomination if they want a realistic shot to win the general election.
In polls the republicans are overwhelmingly supporting Giuliani over any other candidate (and increasing) at this point. He's polling strong against all the democratic candiates too so I would not count him out.

I know it's early but I just don't see the same type of slinging when the time comes.
 
In polls the republicans are overwhelmingly supporting Giuliani over any other candidate (and increasing) at this point. He's polling strong against all the democratic candiates too so I would not count him out.

That baffles me. What's your take on this? Is it just because people think Giuliani could win a general election? Or is it because he has absolutely no connection to Iraq whatsoever and therefore people can't disagree with him on it? Or some other reason? Perhaps it's just that he's not Senator McCain and he's not a Mormon?

But I'll agree with you that I doubt anyone will sling the mud like Hillary; the Clintons are politicians first and everything else second. It's all about getting elected.
 
That baffles me. What's your take on this? Is it just because people think Giuliani could win a general election? Or is it because he has absolutely no connection to Iraq whatsoever and therefore people can't disagree with him on it? Or some other reason? Perhaps it's just that he's not Senator McCain and he's not a Mormon?
I think it's the other two. People are fed up with the "same old, same old" in the case of McCain and with Romney I think he needs more exposure. He needs to play up his record with the Olympics and Massachusetts and downplay the religion card imo. I think with Rudy they see a little bit of Obama in him. Charismatic and a straight shooter. I see him as a typical "city" republican. Cultural issues take a backseat and don't register, secondarily foreign policy but focused on strong domestic policy.
But I'll agree with you that I doubt anyone will sling the mud like Hillary; the Clintons are politicians first and everything else second. It's all about getting elected.
I think most moderates on both sides are tired of this type of person and it's why I think Newt, McCain and HillyBilly may struggle to overcome this obstacle.
 
In polls the republicans are overwhelmingly supporting Giuliani over any other candidate (and increasing) at this point. He's polling strong against all the democratic candiates too so I would not count him out.

I know it's early but I just don't see the same type of slinging when the time comes.
It really doesn't matter who the Republicans nominate - the 3 frontrunners (Giuliani, McCain, and Romney) are not the type that can motivate the basest of the base and the Republicans, in my opinion, will need that faction to win in 2008. Who, out of the current frontrunners can motivate that faction to vote on election day? Hillary Clinton - they will come out to vote against her. Obama and Edwards won't generate nearly as much come-out-to-vote-against-me motivation. If Hillary is already becoming unhinged, it is just a matter of time before she is no longer a frontrunner.
 
It really doesn't matter who the Republicans nominate - the 3 frontrunners (Giuliani, McCain, and Romney) are not the type that can motivate the basest of the base and the Republicans, in my opinion, will need that faction to win in 2008. Who, out of the current frontrunners can motivate that faction to vote on election day? Hillary Clinton - they will come out to vote against her. Obama and Edwards won't generate nearly as much come-out-to-vote-against-me motivation. If Hillary is already becoming unhinged, it is just a matter of time before she is no longer a frontrunner.
You think? Republicans haven't been the ones that have had difficulty getting to the booth. It seems to me the youngsters fell asleep before the 2004 election. It would seem to come down to those critical states again. Florida and Ohio.

I thought this was going to be full of pics from Whomp's latest mud wrestling match :sad:
Ah you silly rabbit trix are for kids and that would not be a sight for our less mature audience.
 
You think? Republicans haven't been the ones that have had difficulty getting to the booth. It seems to me the youngsters fell asleep before the 2004 election. It would seem to come down to those critical states again. Florida and Ohio.
What was on the ballot in Ohio in 2004? A gay marriage referendum, Bush (who the social conservatives still believed in at the time), and Kerry. Now, consider 2008, with no red meat referendum, a Republican with serous flaws (from a social conservative's standpoint), and a Democratic candidate with less negative baggage than Kerry. That state could easily swing the other way. I'm not saying that the Republicans lose if Hillary isn't the Democratic nominee, I'm just saying their odds improve if she is on the ballot.
 
The OP is so what I hate about politics that I could not finish it. It's like being back in kindergarten arguing between 6-year-olds.
I dunno about that, I think I've met six-year-olds who were more mature than this bunch.

Sheesh.
 
I will never vote for Rudy for President. If it is between him and Hillary, then I'm definitely voting for a third party or writing in a candidate.
 
Romney shows promise, but as has been stated, he needs more exposure.

"Mitt who?" is not going to get him anywhere.

...but I can hope, can't I?
 
What was on the ballot in Ohio in 2004? A gay marriage referendum, Bush (who the social conservatives still believed in at the time), and Kerry. Now, consider 2008, with no red meat referendum, a Republican with serous flaws (from a social conservative's standpoint), and a Democratic candidate with less negative baggage than Kerry. That state could easily swing the other way. I'm not saying that the Republicans lose if Hillary isn't the Democratic nominee, I'm just saying their odds improve if she is on the ballot.

Ohio swung pretty hard to the Democrats in 2006. We now have a blue Gov, a Democrat Senator, and several new congressmen.
 
My letter to the Hillary Clinton campaign.



Dear Ms. Clinton,

Like many liberal, primary-voting democrats who follow politics, I initially had a negative view of your bid for the presidency. I had mistakenly viewed you as another Joe Lieberman, almost republicanesque. But after seeing more firsthand material I have come to be more impressed, and realized that such a Clinton Administration would not be bad. My view quickly changed from negative to positve. it went from "no chance at getting my vote during the primary" to "maybe, we'll see"

But these domineering cheapshots taken at Barack Obama over Maureen Dowd's recent column about David Geffen have turned my opinions VERY sour and if this style of character warfare persists from an overambitious, power-driven Clinton campaign continues, there is NO WAY in hell I would vote for you in the primary, and maybe not even in the general election. If by using these dishonorable tactics you win the primary, and someone with integrity like John McCain wins the Republican primary, even though his views are almost dangerously right-wing, his personal character would make him a better suited president, and thus I would cast my vote against my political views but in overwhelming favor of my character views.

These kinds of personal attacks must cease immediately. Mr. Obama deserves and apology. Say what you will to Mr. Geffen, for he directly attacked you, but to go after Mr. Obama for Mr. Geffen's personal dislike of you and your husband clearly shows you are more interested that Obama can raise an amount of money that threatens your chances of victory, and less concerned with honor and, more important, integrity.

Sincerely,

<Hygro>
 
Bravo Hygro. Did you send that? If you didn't you should.
It was thin-skinned at best for her to engage Obama on this and doesn&#8217;t bode well for her ability to roll with the punches. It has to make you wonder how she'd handle a combative congress and foreign policy duress under fire because the next president will undoubtedly have one of the most difficult presidencies in decades.

In the meantime, Obama seems to be trying to defuse the situation...
It's not clear to me why I'd be apologizing for someone else's remark," Obama said, according to his press secretary, Dan Pfeiffer. Obama told reporters, "I have said repeatedly I have the utmost respect for Sen. Clinton and have considered her an ally in the Senate and will continue to consider it that way throughout this campaign."

And the republicans are having fun calling it the "Tinseltown Tussle". :lol:
 
...mud is being slung over the fact that Obama didn't condemn a specific stance of mudslinging by someone who supports him, but isn't part of his campaign? :dubious:

(I'm not American) but isn't Geffen the head fundraiser or something and got $1.3million for Obama so far from the Hollywood limousine liberals?
 
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