Let's Discuss Poland

[TheLastOne36]

Your post is ********. It's based solely on speculation and generalization, which you'll condemn others for basing their posts on. You are nothing more than a hypocrite.

well atleast i got an opiinon about it. I thought it was quite good! i sure laughed when i made it!

 

[hoopsnerd]

well atleast i got an opiinon about it.

Yes, I realize it was nothing but a troll post. I only responded so that others might not bother looking.

 

[m4gill4]

Hmm... Haille Selassie and fundamentalist Rastafarians had some pretty unfriendly view towards Gays and the Caucasian race in general... its not too well publicised, but they were pretty hate-mongering themselves...

Haile Sellasie I did not identify himself with rastafarians. Indeed he was a bit put off by them declaring that he was the reborn son of god, him being christian and all, and that being blashphemy and all. Sellasie was not racist. In his now famous address to the UN, he said:

"Until the color of a man's skin has no more significance than the color of his eyes, the dream of everlasting peace and world citizenship will remain but a fleeting illusion to be pursued but never attained

You are correct that Haile Sellasie was not deposed until long after WWII. However I would argue that due to his flight and long exile abroad during the years when Ethiopia was occupied by fascist Italy, undermined his credibility at home and allowed the opposition to solidify.

 

[m4gill4]

I am not sure why you persist with this when you have already been offered to discuss this with me by PM.... or if you really want to be made a fool of in public, we can take it to another thread where you can make shallow, opinionated statements while I supply you with the names of books and authors you can read (or ignore as is clearly the case).

So what do you want to do LuKo? Keep ignoring the truth, or just take affront through misunderstanding and keep this silly objection going?

LOL! Intellectual ownage. An academic smackdown. I love it.

 

[m4gill4]

Now, please understand that I have actually read every last scrap of information I can find on Poland over the years (interest from a number of perspectives), so I am far from ignorant on the subject. Yet, you are expecting people to ratify your country as worthy of inclusion when you know full well that a) Poland's "golden years" were predominantly defensive and that Poland suffered an inordinate number of invasions and was reduced to less than a vassal state on 2 occasions. Even being completely subsumed into invading empires. That "1000 years of history" is a little bit of warping the truth, if you were pushed to admit it, wouldn't you agree?

This is actually the reason I think Poland should have a civ. How many countries/cultures can you think of that have been conquered/utterly demolished as many times as the Polish, and are still around today?

A very resillient people who IMHO should have a machine gunner (defensive) UU.

Just because they were small and didn't conquer vast tracts doesn't mean they weren't significant (Khmer anyone?)

 

[Seras]

No, this is wrong, and more offensive than anything else in this thread because it is sincere. There is no such thing as "races" as far as humans are concerned. Asian/Caucasian/African/Inuit are not races, there is only one race: the human race.

humm..no?

humans are a SPECIES, made up of several races.

"Race" as mentioned above is nothing but a social construct, and has no place in an unbiased discussion.

i see, so the fact that ppl of african descent have dark skin is a social construct.

asians not having blond hair...social construct?

 

[Jo Girbaud]

humans are a SPECIES, made up of several races.

Humans are species-centric and often forget that we share this planet with many non-humans, and they ultimately suffer due to human greed and destruction. Mothers are not to be blamed - it is natual to want to reproduce. However, reducing the number of off-spring would help in sustaining population numbers, bar wars and disease. A plant based diet would dramaticlly reduce our foot-prints on the planet.

 

[Seras]

bar wars????

 

[Methos]

bar wars????

From the context of his statement it means "not including wars and disease".

 

[Seras]

oh i see what he was going for...at first i thought he was talking about some kind of fighting over bars lol

 

[Spearthrower]

Spearthrower,

from those 1000 you can deduct circa 250 years without sovereingity (XII/XIII and 123 years in XVIII-XX), but in my oppinion those years weren't lost... but thats only my opinion.
But when do you start calculating English history? after Norman invasion? I bet much earlier, but still England is occupated, in a some way
History is not so simply as maths is, where you can be sure wheather y=ax + b

Hi bombel... yes, not lost... I agree. Every experience teaches something, even the harsher lessons.

As for English history, well, by definition it starts with the Angles (Anglii - from which the word Angle Land / England was taken) invasion and eventual consolidation into a unified state in the 10th century A.D., - there was no England prior to that.

The later conquest by the Normans was more like a regime change than anything else and it didn't dissolve the state. These Normans came from Brittany... which it is hard to distinctualise from England of the time and previous to it - much of the NW and West of France shared the same people and culture as the SW of England... so it's very difficult to actually state that anything more than a civil war happened with a final regime change - the people remained much as they were.

In some ways, the Normans were actually fighting the invaders rather than the native populace (check out tension between Devon and the UK... and Brittany and France even today - they've more in common with each other than their respective states).... it is a very complex time to make definitive statements about - the history of Poland's invasions is a lot cleaner cut than this particular time of England's history!

One thing's for sure - I am much happier tangling with historical nuances than maths. To me, anything with numbers in is a mystery best left to the Gods!

 

[Ethric]

humm..no?

humans are a SPECIES, made up of several races.



i see, so the fact that ppl of african descent have dark skin is a social construct.

asians not having blond hair...social construct?

Not to mention that peoples race can decide which medication they ought to get for the same disease. Denying the concept of race to serve a political agenda or whatnot is not only pointless, it can ultimately be bad for peoples health Acknowledging genetic differences in a purely scientific way doesn't mean saying one is better than another.

 

[Dennis_Moore]

Not to mention that peoples race can decide which medication they ought to get for the same disease. Denying the concept of race to serve a political agenda or whatnot is not only pointless, it can ultimately be bad for peoples health Acknowledging genetic differences in a purely scientific way doesn't mean saying one is better than another.

Well put, political correctness is the scourge of a liberal society.

 

[Jo Girbaud]

Acknowledging genetic differences in a purely scientific way doesn't mean saying one is better than another.

Talking about genetic differences between men and women has long been taboo because, according to feminist orthodoxy, if women were different it necessarily meant they were inferior. But that competition-between-the-sexes business is so old hat these days! Ignoring the differences, and framing public policy on a pretence that women are something they are not only ends up hurting women. For instance, in the heady days of 1970s feminism, it was assumed that universal child care would free women to achieve true equality with men. We now know that many women would prefer not to outsource the raising of their children. And so we need public policy and workplace changes that recognise that "biological" drive.

 

[Spearthrower]

Not to mention that peoples race can decide which medication they ought to get for the same disease. Denying the concept of race to serve a political agenda or whatnot is not only pointless, it can ultimately be bad for peoples health Acknowledging genetic differences in a purely scientific way doesn't mean saying one is better than another.

That is known as "one man's milk is another man's poison" in Anthropology... you can't ignore the biological differences of humans or you kill them.

 

[bombel1979]

and one thing about Poland and colonization...

it came to my mind that Poland was one of the first countries in europe that started colonization but as I said before, Poles didn't use ships
in less then a century (between XV-XVI century) Ponad siezed the teritory of additional 500 000 sq km; thats twice as much land as UK has at present. Poland merged with Lithuenia and conquered land of present Ukraine, reaching 1 mln sq km. I know that its not much, comparing to US, but in the European terms its much (3 times bigger than nowadays Germany).

The eastern teritories had low population density but with a veriety of ethnic groups and religions. The "Drang nach Osten" was limited by wars with Russia and Otoman Empire. Many wars were won and lost. For a short period Poles even established a Tzar in Moscow

Why Poland didn't colonised Africa, America and so on, as the West-European countries did? First, Poland have limited access to the open sea. Tte latter, Poland didn't have to go that far to conquer a new land.

 

[TheLastOne36]

and one thing about Poland and colonization...

it came to my mind that Poland was one of the first countries in europe that started colonization but as I said before, Poles didn't use ships
in less then a century (between XV-XVI century) Ponad siezed the teritory of additional 500 000 sq km; thats twice as much land as UK has at present. Poland merged with Lithuenia and conquered land of present Ukraine, reaching 1 mln sq km. I know that its not much, comparing to US, but in the European terms its much (3 times bigger than nowadays Germany).

The eastern teritories had low population density but with a veriety of ethnic groups and religions. The "Drang nach Osten" was limited by wars with Russia and Otoman Empire. Many wars were won and lost. For a short period Poles even established a Tzar in Moscow

Why Poland didn't colonised Africa, America and so on, as the West-European countries did? First, Poland have limited access to the open sea. Tte latter, Poland didn't have to go that far to conquer a new land.

And not to mention that our ships would have to go through, Russian, Finnihs, Swedish, Danish, Norwegian, English, Germany/HRE, Dutch, French, Portuguese, Spanish waters and costums to colonize. Not exactly nice when your at war with someone over a colony. (and as we know, colonies led to war.) It's amazing that we even did colonize n the first place! (courland) even thoguh it was more of a failure then the Swedish colonial empire. (which was also quite pathetic).

 

[Civ.exe Error]

So what if so many poles want their country to be included in the glorious game of Civilization. They are proud of their country and I bet thousands of germans or americans would spam this forum if their countries were left outside.

And yeah why not inlude Sweden (kick out vikings)

 

[Seras]

the annoying thing is that the "we demand you add country X as a civ" ppl could simply mod it in themselves and it would take .00001% of the time and effort they've put into whining about it in the forums.

it took me all of 40 minutes to mod my first custom civ following a tutorial.

 

[Legat]

It's amazing that we even did colonize n the first place! (courland) even thoguh it was more of a failure then the Swedish colonial empire. (which was also quite pathetic).

Poland didn't have to do much with the colonies of Courland. The only present day countries which may deserve to be related to them are Latvia and Lithuania. But that's just my opinion which you soon will prove to be western ignorance and a lack of education.
And while you are at it, could you also correct these entries at Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Courland_and_Semigallia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courland_colonization

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Andrews_Island

There are written stupid things like that Courland, even though a vassal, acted autonomously, that they spoke German and Latvian there, that the settlers in the colonies were Baltic Germans etc.