Let's Talk About the Civs that WON'T Make It In Despite Popularity

[CMKMStephens]

The Pacific is basically ignored entirely;

Australia
Aborigines
Indonesia
Malaysia
Maori
New Zealand
Polynesians (more if you split them up rather than lump them)

"And many more!"

Civilization is meant to be to some extent 'History as you make it' while obviously grounded within the realms of actual history. It would obviously be more difficult to do something like a Minoan civilization, we still can't even read linear B, but choosing just 18 civs based arguably on size, relative importance, or historical priority is almost arbitrary. Personally I think Firaxis should release the games with far more civilizations; the variety would please us more in general, and likewise hit far more targets for people's personal preferences.

 

[TaylorFlame]

America was a power, especially in international trade, from before WW1. This demanded and justified a significant navy.
But I can't see how you can support claiming anything more

They arent claiming anything more! No one is claiming anything more! What are you trying to achieve?!

 

[Truronian]

In my chart you'll see some interesting tidbits:


Civs that have never were available at a major release:

1. Austrians
2. Byzantines
3. Dutch
4. Ethipoians
5. Hittites
6. Holy Romans
7. Khmer
8. Koreans
9. Maya
10. Ottomans
11. Portuguese
12. Scandinavians
13. Sumerians

Except in Civ II:

1. Carthaginians
2. Celts
3. Sioux/Native Americans
4. Vikings

Except in Civ III:

1. Iroquois

Except in Civ IV:

1. Malinese

Your chart has an error, Spain weren't in Vanilla Civ3.

 

[E_Pluribus_Unum]

I completly agree, besides maybe #5.
I guess australia will never be in any civ game or expansion (just as example).


Other popular civs, which will probably not be in:
- Poland
- Hungary
Because europe is already very good represented and they are not as important as the other civs there.
- Israel
Because they long time haven't been a state or just were not present at all.
- Polynesia
No impact in no way.

Hungary is not important? Maybe you say that, because you are not so familiar with it's histroy.

 

[Arakhor]

Compared to France, Germany, Italy or even Russia, Hungary is not that important, sorry.

 

[pi-r8]

Ze Poland ball!

 

[Wodan]

Seems to me that Hungary's importance is limited to two things:
1) as a staging area for the migrations / invasions of the Huns
2) in the 16th-18th centuries or so, when it was halfway significant in European politics and was mostly Europe's "defense" against the Ottoman Empire. (Kind of the way Gondor was the defense against Mordor... the "bad guys" would have to invade through thee to get to anybody else.) But that also limited its power and influence; the rest of Europe mostly left them alone because to knock them down would be to open the door for the Ottomans; and also because they couldn't really look elsewhere themselves because if they invaded another European power, that too would open the door.

 

[Dragonflow]

Hungary's importance pretty much disappears in mid 16th century when its conquered by the Ottomans. Afterwards Austria led the defence of Europe along with the souther German states and Poland. Why is Austria never included in CIV, it was an importante European power for a long time.

 

[EMT]

Time to lay the smackdown on Hungarian history.

The Hungarians, apart from the Slavs/Turks, are one of the only people to have moved to Europe-and stayed! They conquered what was a lightly populated Slavic area and assimilated them and destroyed a state supposedly call Great Moravia, the wet dream of Western Slav nationalists. The Hungarians quickly converted to Catholicism and expanded their empire to the point of controlling half, if not more of the balkans, and chunks of Central Europe. Their biggest point, though, is not being one the only migrating people to establish themselves, quickly form a stable empire, then become a regional power that Byzantium begged for help. For a time, Hungarians actually where the Holy Roman Emperors. They also married their way into the Hapsburg dynasty(or the Austrians married into Hungary), which is how we get Austria-Hungary. Being a German, the Austrian King gave little freedom or authority to the Hungarians. Before this though, the Hungarians had been fighting the Ottomans almost continuously for decades, possibly even a century of on and off fighting. Their population stagnated as the population of other countries rocketed, making Hungary go from Great Power, to Regional Power on it's own in comparison. With Austria, it was considered a Great Power. Budapest was a center of the early Renessance, with the steam of it going along to Italy. Not only did lost information travel to Italy from Greek traders, Venice, and the rare Muslim trader, it also came from the Hungarians that had spent decades raiding the Ottoman Balkans. Next, let's talk about what the Austrians did to the Hungarians. They refused to allow them to emigrate, but encouraged Serbs migrating from Ottoman Kosovo(yep, that's the big source of this crisis), to settle in Vojvodina(is that how you spell it?), turning it from a Hungarian majority to a Serbian plurality, as the Hungarians stagnated and the Serbs increased. The Austrians continued to use mainly Hungarian divisions, meaning many Hungarians died fighting one of Austria's poorly managed wars. Did I mention that this caused their population to stagnate? Need I also mention that Hungarian Jews where some of the biggest inventors and scientists in history, and many worked on the ATOM BOMB for America? If I remember right.......the plurality of the team working on the bomb where Hungarian.

In summary-What the Hungarians did:
-Helped build the Atomic Bomb
-Many advances in science, invention, and other advancements in technology
-Fought for centuries a near-endless war that cost them their population growth, the reason we have no more than 10 million Hungarians, when their population could possibly(on a loose guess) be close to 40 million, possibly much, much higher. Hey! Isn't that how many Italians/Spaniards there are?
-If you consider stopping the Ottoman Empire a positive thing(I don't, I'd personally revise history and have the Ottomans conquer the world And I'm Catholic), then there's that
-Hungarians where the majority of Austrian troops in many wars under Austrian leadership
-Budapest was a staging point of the Renissance
-Where the punch behind the Austrian's talk, at the Austrian's peak
Probably more things that I could pinpoint, but I is too lazy to go find a book.

 

[Dragonflow]

I didn't say that Hungary had no influence on the world. I was just saying that the defence of Europe from the 16th century was led by Austrians( note I did not say that the soldiers where mostly Germans). I also know that Hungary was a great power in medieval Europe and Budapest was in fact a very important City. I myself think that the destructions of Austria-Hungary was a bad idea, when A-U was gone the stability of eastern Europe was even worse than ever. This in fact was one of the many reasons why WW II started. But back to the Hungarians: I think that Hungary would make a nice Expansion civ as would Austria do.

 

[climat]

Austria-Hungaty can be a compromise. (Not realistic, I know)
It is too much for me making Austria and Hungary separate selection.
But that will be better than seeing HRE as "Civilization"

 

[EMT]

Austria-Hungaty can be a compromise. (Not realistic, I know)
It is too much for me making Austria and Hungary separate selection.
But that will be better than seeing HRE as "Civilization"

Actually, it is realistic and a pretty decent compromise. I support. Although Austria's contributions haven't even been discussed yet, I feel good knowing that an Austro-Hungarian civ. would be a fair compromise that isn't complete BS like the HRE.

 

[say1988]

But I can't see how you can support claiming anything more

I wasn't. You were arguing that the US wasn't a "powerful nation" until after WWII
and that after WWI were in "no way" a "military power" both of which are simply untrue.

 

[Dragonflow]

Adding Austria-Hungary would be a nice thing. This way South-Easter Europe is better represented and two Civilizations that were important would be in game. It surely will be better than the HRE that was added in BTS. If there still are unique units and buildings in civV( I hope they will be in), the unique unit could be Hungarian while the unique building could be Austrian. And now I am fantasizing agian about the civilization I always wanted to play.

 

[climat]

What is Hunga't'y..? Sorry for mistake, Hungarians.
Anyway, I want to see cities named Prague, Budapest, Wien, Belgrade, etc. in the game but don't want to see HRE again.
Supporting Austia-Hungary!

 

[Dragonflow]

That's the spirit.
South-Eastern Europe has always been ignored in Civ, thats why Austria-Hungary is a good choise to depict that Area. Other candidates are Serbia, Romania and Bulgaria.

 

[CHEESE!]

WHAT ABOUT HITLER????

 

[Dragonflow]

I didn't know that Hitler became recognized as an entire civilization.
But really obvious Trolls are obvious.

 

[CHEESE!]

Was intended as a joke... Sorry if interpreted wrongly..

But the 'Hitler as a civ' thing made me laugh.

 

[civver_764]

The Ottomans, one of the most tolerant empires in history,

Uh, Armenian genocide?