Let's Talk About the Civs that WON'T Make It In Despite Popularity

[Dragonflow]

Was intended as a joke... Sorry if interpreted wrongly..

But the 'Hitler as a civ' thing made me laugh.

Sorry for calling you a Troll, I just came back from the EA forums and there are far too many Trolls over there. So I was kind of in the wrong mindset.


And about the Ottomans being tolerant. Well they were very tolerant during the 15th,16th,17th and 18th century but the 19th and 20th century Ottomans were very conservative and repressive to say the least. Especially against Christians on the Balkan and Anatolia.

 

[EMT]

I blame the intolerance of Christians.

Well really, the Ottomans DID NOT go out of their way to kill every Armenian they saw. The Armenians decided to go full-out revolt mode, and threatened the fall of the Ottoman Empire.....to the Russian Army. I can understand that the only solution without resorting to genocide would be to migrate them away from the frontlines, negotiate, or promise independence/extreme autonomy. I believe the Ottomans tried all 3, but the Armenians refused to listen and demanded an Armenia stretching from Central Anatolia to Persia. I don't blame the Ottomans for going with option 1, the only one that seemed possible, as Armenians refused to cooperate , seeing as they tried everything, but the Armenians where on a nationalistic no-talk sentiment. What I DO blame the Ottomans for is poor, horribly poor, and in some cases downright horrible way they managed the movement of Armenians away from the frontilines after promising them extreme autonomy, if not outright independence, on a provincial majority basis. In some cases disgruntled Ottoman troops mowed down Armenians that refused to leave or attacked them. That, is when the Ottomans move from having my slight sympathy, to downright disgust. Armenia should have become independent, but not the outrageous demands that they wanted unilaterally. It's like giving Serbia Yugoslavia, Albania, most of Hungary, Bulgaria, and Romania. Insane overkill.

So in summary, I blame the Armenians themselves, as well as the Ottomans. The Ottomans even had the title, 'The Most Loyal Subjects' for Armenians; that should show how much of a stab in the back it was when Armenians revolted.

Does this come off as me defending the Genocide? If it does, I'm sorry. It was a horrible, horrible thing, that to this day is still something that must be studied and all efforts made for something like this to never happen again. But honestly, I think the Russians killed as many Armenians as the Ottomans, in terms of Armenians and Russified Armenians during the reign of the USSR, except they most likely hid these records, if there ever where any records of it. Meanwhile, the Genocide is BARELY known in the West, and everybody assumes it was a Hitleresque genocide full of hatred, bigotry, and killing on purpose. It wasn't that. It was a poorly managed relocation(which is plenty bad enough). But I still hold that the Armenians are also to blame and it can't be viewed through bias, despite the Ottomans receiving almost all of the blame IMO.

 

[Virote_Considon]

Israel won't be in, but Palestine will instead.

 

[Hadrean]

I hear a lot of people apparently want Canada, but with only 18 civs being released whent he game comes out, I doubt Canada will be one. I don't think there is great leader of Canada that is easily identifyable internationally such as Bismark for Germany, Washington for America, etc. etc.

 

[MrBanana]

I hear a lot of people apparently want Canada, but with only 18 civs being released whent he game comes out, I doubt Canada will be one. I don't think there is great leader of Canada that is easily identifyable internationally such as Bismark for Germany, Washington for America, etc. etc.

I agree, though Lester B. Pearson, one of the "founding fathers" of the U.N. would be a good leader.

BTW, if Poland were a civ, they wouldn't be able to win a space victory.

 

[Tarmac]

Okay, let me start.

1. CANADA
Some Canadians never cease to try and promote their country as though it where a civilization. If colonies spawned by their masters had certain historical names, then the first I would choose would be Canada for England. But Canada is NOT truly that important historically, culturally, militarily, and (forgive me Canadians) Diplomatically. I personally would rather live in Canada than the US, but I know America is WAY more important than Canada ever has been and most likely will be.

Lets not forget, Canada gave us William Shatner. That alone should qualify them for ciV.

On the flip side, they also gave us Micheal J. Fox

 

[say1988]

Are you insulting one of the greatest Canadians ever? Where would the world be without Marty McFly and his hoverboard?

 

[ilikepies]

Canada should not be a civ. They are not very important (sorry Canadians), and even if it is a nice country, that's not what matters.

Poland was actually quite powerful in the late middle ages to the Enlightenment, but "Europe is over-represented". Excuses.

Sweden was also at one point possibly the second most powerful nation in Europe, and had perhaps the most disciplined army in that period. I'd like to see them in the game.

The Iroquois would be nice, for diversity, and they were one of the more significant North American tribes.

Israel is not significant enough, even the biblical kingdom (King David and all that) was fairly insignificant and only existed for a few years at a time before getting stomped by the Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Arabs, and Ottomans.

 

[Kelderan]

So I would like to just throw out there that Canada has indeed impacted the world in such a way to prove its worth:

To begin the Iroquois were included in civilization III, who were the native population in Canada, ergo to some degree it has already been present. It does have a long history though, as a colony its older then the United States with Colonies established far earlier then the American ones. The rich history of Canada cannot be ignored, it was the battleground between the French and the English, the Americans and the English etc. Canada has been involved and played a serious role in numerous wars to people who have said otherwise:

The War of 1812
The Boar War
The first World War
(with some of the most important battles won by Canadian soldiers, they succeeded whereo others failed)
Second Battle of Ypres
The Battle of the Somme
The Battle of Vimy Ridge
The Battle of Passchendaele
Second World War
Korean War
(Did I forget to mention we created the Peacekeepers)


Canada nevertheless has an independent foreign policy, most notably maintaining full relations with Cuba and declining to participate in the Iraq War. Canada also maintains historic ties to the United Kingdom and France and to other former British and French colonies through Canada's membership in the Commonwealth of Nations and the Francophonie.

Special units:
The Hornet (Jet)
The Avro Arrow! (most advanced Jet at the time)
The Mounties (Cavalry)

As for figure heads Pearson and Trudeau are famous around the world.

The technological contributions of Canada cannot be ignored either:
1)The wood pulp process for paper making
2)The introduction of Standard Time
3) Java Programming
4)The variable pitch propeller
5)SONAR
(Culturally Basketball, Lacrosse, Hockey are all popular sports created in Canada)
6)Imax
7)Kerosene
7) The Zipper
8) Insulin
9) Telephone
10)Electron Microscpe (Practical Model)

Those being among the most famous, there are of course far to many to waste time mentioning.

We are a G8 nation, we therefore are a major player in the world. Canadian cities are on the level of the other greats. Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal, Quebec City (a UNESCO world heritage site), Calgary are all internationally recognizable places.

All I am saying is that Canada has enough to make it an interesting and playable Civ, with great leaders, special units, specialized buildings, and other characteristics. Besides North America is underrepresented.

 

[ilikepies]

All of those wars were as part of the British Empire, no?

Canada was never a superpower. Most civs in the game were either a superpower at one time or are a bizzare ancient empire in an underrepresented place.

Not saying Canada isn't great and all, but it never measured up to most of the powers of the game and isn't obscure enough to make it in as a "surprise" civ.

 

[Dark_Jedi06]

If Canada ever makes it in I will simply access the XML (or whatever necessary files there are) to make the <bAIPlayable> tag set to a big 0, just like I did with that oddly named "Native American Empire" they threw in last time. So hopefully they spare me the effort of clicking my mouse and typing and put in a more worthwhile civilization, like the Ottomans, Malinese, Maya, Inca, Byzantium, etc.

 

[deanej]

Yeah, you Canadians really need to stop passing off the accomplishments of the British as your own.

 

[Kelderan]

Okay, let me start.

1. CANADA
Some Canadians never cease to try and promote their country as though it where a civilization. If colonies spawned by their masters had certain historical names, then the first I would choose would be Canada for England. But Canada is NOT truly that important historically, culturally, militarily, and (forgive me Canadians) Diplomatically. I personally would rather live in Canada than the US, but I know America is WAY more important than Canada ever has been and most likely will be.

By the way did you forget the U.S was also a colony of England, and we are as much a civilization as anyone else. "a society in an advanced state of social development" that good sir is the definition, so I would consider Canada a civilization. I am guessing you are American and therefore ignorant to Canada and its contributions. Keep in mind we are the largest trading partner of the U.S. we are a powerful Oil Power, and we are important in all the categories you mentioned. So you might find a few surprises if you read up on our history.

 

[Kelderan]

No those were Canadian accomplishments but your ignorance doesn't surprise me.

 

[say1988]

To begin the Iroquois were included in civilization III, who were the native population in Canada,

Assuming you mean the Iroquois Confederacy, except for a brief period during the 17th century, they were not present in Canada in significant numbers until after the Revolution when groups loyal to the Crown moved to Canada (most notable is, perhaps, Brant).
The only Iroquoian-speakers present in Canada pre-contact were the Huron and Neutrals.

You may be able to make a civ out of it, but Canada is far from deserving.

 

[deanej]

You can count all the ones but the war of 1812, but the war of 1812 is the one I always see. Most of those accomplishments are quite modern anyways, but technological contributions in modern times are not enough to get in civ. Most of the battles I have NEVER HEARD OF, and I have taken college level history courses. As far as I can tell, all the requests for a Canadian civ amount to nothing more than Canadian nationalism.

Actually Canadian independence can be questioned to this day (you are still under the British monarchy after all, even though the queen and governor general are essentially figureheads).

 

[Kelderan]

Considering the fan bases here I see no reason not to, personally I think they should add a lot more civs, if people don't want to play them, they should simply have an option to quickly disable that civilization. It would probably help sales too.

 

[Kikaider]

Okay, let me start.

1. CANADA
Some Canadians never cease to try and promote their country as though it where a civilization. If colonies spawned by their masters had certain historical names, then the first I would choose would be Canada for England. But Canada is NOT truly that important historically, culturally, militarily, and (forgive me Canadians) Diplomatically. I personally would rather live in Canada than the US, but I know America is WAY more important than Canada ever has been and most likely will be.

By the way did you forget the U.S was also a colony of England, and we are as much a civilization as anyone else. "a society in an advanced state of social development" that good sir is the definition, so I would consider Canada a civilization. I am guessing you are American and therefore ignorant to Canada and its contributions. Keep in mind we are the largest trading partner of the U.S. we are a powerful Oil Power, and we are important in all the categories you mentioned. So you might find a few surprises if you read up on our history.

There are plenty of countries that have greatly contributed to the world, but not in the Civilization games.

I'll say this as I've said before, just mod it to include Canada, or change one of the other civilizations to "Canada" with the leader head's name changed.

 

[Kelderan]

Trust me the Governor General is a useless pawn with no real power. She cannot do anything that the Canadian people do not agree with without a serious backlash, most people question her purpose. If she ever did anything to anger Canadians she'd be ousted. So no it can't really be questioned. And those battles are famous, Europeans would know them but the egocentricity of Americans tends to lead to minimal exposure to Canadian War contributions. We have a large number of contributions prior to the modern day. If your interested:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Canada

Anyway even the wars under British reign our contributions still count. Those were Canadian lives given for the monarchy and therefore our accomplishment.

 

[Dachs]

So hopefully they spare me the effort of clicking my mouse and typing and put in a more worthwhile civilization, like the Ottomans, Malinese, Maya, Inca, Byzantium,

...Luxembourg, Aragon, Ragusa, Krakow, San Marino, the Free City of Danzig, etc., etc.