Ley Lines - a Path to God?

[Bugfatty300]

What about simple ley line grid coordinates? So if Pluto is the 3rd largest Khyber Belt object (P3) and Neptune is the largest Ice giant (N1) and of course Saturn is the 4th most distant planet from the sun after planet 9 (S4) and Uranus is just Uranus as every school child knows (U).

Well nevermind it's just random gibberish. I thought I was on to something for a moment.

 

[Berzerker]

Kuiper

we made it to 100, thx everyone

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Kuiper

we made it to 100, thx everyone

Most of the posts consist of the rest of us emphatically disagreeing with you.

 

[Senethro]

I determined which party is more racist in recent history? Are you gonna quote me? As for KBO's, how do you think the people researching the 9th Planet stumbled onto their theory? By studying the orbits of KBOs. And if Pluto was the product of a major disruption involving Saturn and another planet, then maybe a bunch of those KBOs are a result of the same disruption. These asteroid belts are debris trails from collisions, not 'failed planets' that didn't form because of neighboring planets.

But thats a good idea

https://www.space.com/pluto-hazy-organics-surprise-scientists.html

Pluto's atmosphere is more like Saturn's moon Titan than Neptune's moon Triton

A detail is not the picture!

But this just seems to be how you are. Small things look big and big things look small.

 

[Berzerker]

Most of the posts consist of the rest of us emphatically disagreeing with you.

well, thats what debates are about

A detail is not the picture!

But this just seems to be how you are. Small things look big and big things look small.

You asked about any other evidence Pluto could have originated at Saturn, so I posted an article claiming Pluto's atmosphere is more like Saturn's moon Titan than an alleged Kuiper Belt object (Triton) captured by Neptune. One would expect Pluto and Triton to be more alike if they formed in roughly the same location. But if Pluto more closely resembles Saturn's largest moon, then how do you explain that?

In other news, Jupiter's moon Ganymede may have just won largest moon contest, Titan's atmosphere obscured its true diameter and its actually a bit smaller than thought.

 

[Senethro]

You asked about any other evidence Pluto could have originated at Saturn, so I posted an article claiming Pluto's atmosphere is more like Saturn's moon Titan than an alleged Kuiper Belt object (Triton) captured by Neptune. One would expect Pluto and Triton to be more alike if they formed in roughly the same location. But if Pluto more closely resembles Saturn's largest moon, then how do you explain that?

In other news, Jupiter's moon Ganymede may have just won largest moon contest, Titan's atmosphere obscured its true diameter and its actually a bit smaller than thought.

But it doesn't! Thats exactly what I'm talking about! You've picked out a single detail!

What you've done is the equivalent of saying that "Earth has ice, pluto has ice, therefore they have a common origin".

 

[Berzerker]

It doesn't what? The article said Pluto's atmosphere was more like Titans, a moon of Saturn, than Triton, a captured KBO candidate and moon of Neptune. You just told me to look for other evidence and I did. By my count thats several 'details' all pointing to Saturn as Pluto's parent body.

And thats interesting because according to the Enuma Elish Saturn (Anshar) gave 'birth' to 2 planets, Uranus (Anu) and Pluto (Gaga) and the latter was sent to inform the other gods of Marduk's supremacy.

The Fremont panel in Utah shows the vault of heaven as a line of 8 sheep with a horned deity 6th from the right and 4th from the left (Marduk was clothed with the halo of 10 gods). The 5 sheep to its right are the outer planets and the smallest of the 5 is lodged between 2 larger ones on the end. Pluto's perihelion is inside of Neptune.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Now you're bringing sheep into this?

BAAAAAAH!

 

[Manfred Belheim]

250 is not divisible by 30 unless of course you mean in the way that every number is divisible by every number?

Oh yeah, total mental arithmetic fail. I have no idea what the point was meant to be then.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Now we here on Earth can see Saturn's rings edge on but there's no apparent mechanism for Saturn launching the Earth into this orbit. We'd be launched into a Pluto-like orbit tilted to the other planets.

Would we? Can you explain why you think that?

Not numerology, just the 'coincidence' Pluto's apehelion and perihelion form a 2:1 ratio when Saturn's orbital distance is subtracted from it. I'd expect mathematical relationships between 2 objects separated by a disruption, that may be one of them.

The key would be to argue some sort of mechanism or evolution that would explain a particular mathematical relationship, then you'd have a model that actually explained an observation. You can't just say "well I'd expect there to be some mathematical relationship, and if I subtract this number from this one and divide by another, a factor of 2 pops out, so that'll do".

 

[Senethro]

It doesn't what? The article said Pluto's atmosphere was more like Titans, a moon of Saturn, than Triton, a captured KBO candidate and moon of Neptune. You just told me to look for other evidence and I did. By my count thats several 'details' all pointing to Saturn as Pluto's parent body.

Atmospheres are trivial features of most planets. They are the barest fraction of the planets mass, frequently temporary, so not 5 billion years old and so any information about formation they give you is very derived or removed.

Remember, you're trying to convince us that you know better than all scientists. You're failing to build a case that is convincing.

As an aside I googled sitchins on reddit and even the paranormal/conspiracy crowd think he is ridiculous (but I wouldn't be surprised if that was anti-semitism).

 

[Birdjaguar]

As an aside I googled sitchins on reddit and even the paranormal/conspiracy crowd think he is ridiculous (but I wouldn't be surprised if that was anti-semitism).

Among other errors Stitchin made was to choose only one of many hundreds of cylinder seals to explain his theory of our alien origins, but ignore all the other seals that have different star shapes and dots on them. It’s kinda like choosing one business card out of a thousand cards and saying it’s design elements explain dark matter. Cylinder seals in the ancient ME were like business cards today.

 

[Berzerker]

To resolve the questions about Atlantis you have to answer each of these items from Plato's story:

These are the relevant points from Plato's story:

• A dominating, advanced Island culture existed: Atlantis
• There was a war between mainland Greece (the protagonist) and that island culture
• The Greeks won
• There was a cataclysm
• Atlantis was destroyed
• The protagonists was destroyed

• A consistent timeline is needed that fits with known events. The time line needs to include one for Atlantis and one for Plato's story.
• Archaeological information must be consistent

You should make you case.

This might help

https://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/3487

I haven't looked at it enough yet and the SB is about to start but I'd be interested to see if any landmasses in the Atlantic near Gibraltar disappeared under the ocean around 9600 BC. The problem is Atlantis (or the civilization) sank in one day (or night), that suggests it was either protected from rising seas like the Black Sea basin was protected from the Mediterranean, or a tsunami took out the civilization and that animation wont show that.

Large earthquakes have hit near Gibraltar as the continents jostle back and forth and there is concern the Canaries could produce a landslide capable of wiping out coastal cities on both sides of the Atlantic.

 

[Senethro]

In a way, I'm grateful it isn't QAnon.

 

[Birdjaguar]

To begin, 9600 BCE is the wrong date. Solon’s story originated in Egypt and they used a lunar calendar. That puts the events about 1450 BCE.

Second, who were the protagonists in the war and where was it fought? You have to start with the story told to Solon.

When you begin by looking for place that might be Atlantis, then you have to either ignore the story or force fit it into the place narrative. The story is very clear. In addition, you need to understand the progression of Greek history from the Bronze Age to classical times. Lastly, you need to understand what Plato was trying to do.

 

[Berzerker]

1450 BC is not that far off from Troy, if the Greeks were in a major war with a western maritime power they would have a much better memory of it without having Egyptians chide them as children ignorant of history. The Sea Peoples invaded the E Mediterranean ~1200 BC probably around or shortly after the Trojan War.

Would we? Can you explain why you think that?

Because a moon leaving Saturn's equatorial plane would either end up with a distant inclined orbit or hurled at or away from the sun and eventually swallowed up or ejected. Besides, Earth's way too big to have been a moon of Saturn. Furthermore, the Kuiper Belt is tilted too like the asteroid belt and Pluto sits on or around the mean tilt. So its possible Pluto was not alone when it was flung out there from Saturn. Much of that debris lines up with Saturn's rings.

The key would be to argue some sort of mechanism or evolution that would explain a particular mathematical relationship, then you'd have a model that actually explained an observation. You can't just say "well I'd expect there to be some mathematical relationship, and if I subtract this number from this one and divide by another, a factor of 2 pops out, so that'll do".

Thats above my pay grade, but if a satellite left Saturn why wouldn't we see mathematical relationships?

Atmospheres are trivial features of most planets. They are the barest fraction of the planets mass, frequently temporary, so not 5 billion years old and so any information about formation they give you is very derived or removed.

Remember, you're trying to convince us that you know better than all scientists. You're failing to build a case that is convincing.

As an aside I googled sitchins on reddit and even the paranormal/conspiracy crowd think he is ridiculous (but I wouldn't be surprised if that was anti-semitism).

Atmospheres are generally produced by material in the crust and upper mantle assuming differentiation has occurred unless life has taken hold like here. Sitchin's a mainstay on the Ancient Aliens TV series so I dont know who you're reading on reddit. As for the scientists, like I said, they'd be much further along if they just read ancient cosmologies as sources of scientific information.

The first page of Genesis is a treasure trove, and thats coming from someone who used to think it was all BS and there was no way our ancient ancestors knew about the early Earth. But Gen 1:2 says the world was covered by water and darkness before land and life appeared. Scientists spent decades telling us the world was a molten hell on Earth for the first 5-7 billion years.

Now it turns out our oldest rock dating back to 4.4 bya formed in water and our water formed at the asteroid belt and the world formed surrounded by water. And of course its much darker out there so neither sun or moon would dominate our sky.

 

[Birdjaguar]

1450 BC is not that far off from Troy, if the Greeks were in a major war with a western maritime power they would have a much better memory of it without having Egyptians chide them as children ignorant of history. The Sea Peoples invaded the E Mediterranean ~1200 BC probably around or shortly after the Trojan War..

What your missing is the Greek Dark Ages. It lasted from 1100 to 750 BCE. Writing was lost, along with all recorded history. Those dark years did not happen in Egypt. The story Solon heard in Egypt was from before the dark ages. In the dark ages Greek history was lost to the Greeks.

 

[Berzerker]

Was that a result of the Sea People's invasion? Oral traditions probably survived since Homer and Hesiod wrote down their 'history' back to and beyond Troy, if Atlantis was 200+ years before Troy I'd expect traces of that period showing up in their mythology too. But I haven't closely examined all the Greek myths about their 'gods' so maybe a disguised version of Atlantis shows up there. Many cultures around the world have myths about a 'golden' period when the gods and demi-gods reigned and power shifted to human kings.

I think the Turin kings list of Egyptian pharaohs stretches back 36,000 years. Thats an interesting number:

After the kingship descended from heaven, the kingship was in Eridug. In Eridug, Alulim became king; he ruled for 28800 years. Alaljar ruled for 36000 years. 2 kings; they ruled for 64800 years. Then Eridug fell and the kingship was taken to Bad-tibira. In Bad-tibira, En-men-lu-ana ruled for 43200 years. En-men-gal-ana ruled for 28800 years. Dumuzid, the shepherd, ruled for 36000 years. 3 kings; they ruled for 108000 years. Then Bad-tibira fell (?) and the kingship was taken to Larag. In Larag, En-sipad-zid-ana ruled for 28800 years. 1 king; he ruled for 28800 years. Then Larag fell (?) and the kingship was taken to Zimbir. In Zimbir, En-men-dur-ana became king; he ruled for 21000 years. 1 king; he ruled for 21000 years. Then Zimbir fell (?) and the kingship was taken to Curuppag. In Curuppag, Ubara-Tutu became king; he ruled for 18600 years. 1 king; he ruled for 18600 years. In 5 cities 8 kings; they ruled for 241200 years. Then the flood swept over.

Humans and their gods were around 250,000+ years ago. Fascinating

 

[Valka D'Ur]

As for the scientists, like I said, they'd be much further along if they just read ancient cosmologies as sources of scientific information.

I think the Turin kings list of Egyptian pharaohs stretches back 36,000 years.

So you're claiming that there were pharaohs ~25,000 before the development of agriculture and the accompanying sociopolitical changes that would lead to anyone like a pharaoh?

I guess I should sue the college I went to, because not one of the anthropology instructors there mentioned one syllable about any of this.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Was that a result of the Sea People's invasion? Oral traditions probably survived since Homer and Hesiod wrote down their 'history' back to and beyond Troy, if Atlantis was 200+ years before Troy I'd expect traces of that period showing up in their mythology too. But I haven't closely examined all the Greek myths about their 'gods' so maybe a disguised version of Atlantis shows up there. Many cultures around the world have myths about a 'golden' period when the gods and demi-gods reigned and power shifted to human kings.

The Hyksos/Sea Peoples invaded Egypt from Asia minor about 1650 BCE. Mycenaean Greece "flourished from about 1600 to 1100. The collapse of Bronze Age Greece had been attributed to Dorian invaders, internal unrest, over population, etc. Nobody has a firm answer yet. In any case, from about 1100 to 750, there is a "Dark Age wall" that kept the Mycenaean Greece hidden from everyone (including classical Greece) until it was rediscovered in the 19th C. Homer appeared at the end of the Dark Ages and his story was deemed mythology and fanciful by Greeks. Not real.

The priests in Sias Egypt did have a "record" of pre Dark AGE Greece. That is the story told to Solon in 600 BCE on his trip to Egypt. Solon's story was passed down through his family (Solon > Dropides > Critias' Grandfather > Critias > Plato) to Plato. Plato wrote his two books on Atlantis about 360 BCE.

The key elements of Solon's story (from the Egyptians) are:

• Atlantis was an advanced, island culture that dominated the region
• Mainland Greece fought a war with them
• The Greeks won
• The island nation was destroyed by a cataclysm
• The Greeks were destroyed

Any solution to the Atlantis question needs to address those points in a way that fits with what we know about the ancient world.