Ley Lines - a Path to God?

[Berzerker]

https://rgdn.info/en/mesta_sily._ley-linii

For years I thought if "God" is another planet in our solar system with a highly elliptical inclined orbit taking thousands of years - which is what I would expect from a rogue planet that joined our system after its creation (possibly debris from the nearby supernova that triggered the birth of the sun) - then peoples all over the world would see the planet of God when close enough and build their temples oriented to it.

The problem is we dont really have research into any given temple structure looking for unaccounted alignments that stick out and what they could mean. Instead we look for the alignments we'd expect. Solar, lunar, zodiacal/constellations, brightest stars or the Pleiades, seasonal, planetary relationships to the ecliptic etc. And people were in the habit of realigning temples or building over older structures so that limits us.

But what if people also recorded "God" in the sites they chose to build and maintain over the eons? They wouldn't be building a town to align with something that keeps moving because of precession, this would be a one time deal based on the planet's orbit at the time.

I've seen the Ancient Aliens episode about ley lines and that link has some interesting stuff covering the subject, but I'd like to know what all those French towns were pointing at. Something to the southeast or northwest at about 40-45 degrees. That seems too far south for either the sun, moon or anything near the ecliptic, but maybe I'm wrong about that. The Vikings were doing this too and their towns look SE...and NW.

https://www.climb-utah.com/Misc/ninemile.htm

In that image the Fremont Indians of S Utah might have depicted our solar system before the celestial battle. The horned deity in the center was killed and dismembered to form Heaven and Earth. To the lower right on an elliptical inclined approach is the 'creator' with the bow and arrow. If there is a '9th planet' and it does become visible once in a great while, I'd expect our ancestors to record that somehow.

On a sidenote, the asteroid belt is tilted. Now maybe thats because the asteroids that spend much of their time on the same orbital plane as nearby planets eventually get dislodged or swallowed leaving behind the ones avoiding that fate, but it looks to me like most asteroids are between the ecliptic and ~40 degrees. I'd expect a debris trail like that from collisions involving objects hitting each other at a 40 degree angle.

 

[Truthy]

You should definitely expect even randomly placed cities/archaeological sites to occasionally fall along roughly straight lines or form shapes. Especially if you're looking at France or Spain or the UK, where there are historical sites everywhere. And especially if you're willing to select unimportant places, as the site does. And especially if you allow the points to be quite large (for example, some of the "points" on that site look like entire departments in France). And especially if you allow a subjective tolerance for what points you count as "close enough" to lie on a line, as the site does.

 

[Senethro]

Why would you even orient towards something you can't see?

 

[Berzerker]

You should definitely expect even randomly placed cities/archaeological sites to occasionally fall along roughly straight lines or form shapes. Especially if you're looking at France or Spain or the UK, where there are historical sites everywhere. And especially if you're willing to select unimportant places, as the site does. And especially if you allow the points to be quite large (for example, some of the "points" on that site look like entire departments in France). And especially if you allow a subjective tolerance for what points you count as "close enough" to lie on a line, as the site does.

I'd agree up to a point, but I think these towns have the word for star incorporated into their names so that adds a little mystery. I guess the way to confirm this theory is to figure out when these towns were built. Or maybe when the 2 oldest were built or at least marked by temple sites. I suppose additional towns could be founded after an original 2 created the ley line.

So lets say people saw this planet 2000 BC for example and laid down markers to establish it's rising point along the horizon, then they could keep building along that line. It would be interesting to see if the lines in France and the Vikings in Denmark could be pointing at the same thing to the SE or NW.

We do see sites repeatedly used over time, one Christian church was even built around a monolith from an earlier structure kinda like the Dome of the Rock covers a sacred rock outcrop in Jerusalem (I think). But I dont know why these places were considered sacred warranting such special attention over thousands of years. Course the Spaniards used Incan temples for their churches so I'm sure political or social motives favored using sites already considered sacred by the populace.

Why would you even orient towards something you can't see?

The people researching the 9th planet think it never approaches the solar system proper but can only be 'seen' now thru its effects on objects further out, like Kuiper Belt objects. But if it does swing into the solar system - like maybe the asteroid belt - then it would be seen for a few months or a year and fade from view... and memory. People would have found ways to record its passing in their religions, myths and architecture. So the theory goes anyway.

 

[Berzerker]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inca_mythology#/media/File:Santa_Cruz_Pachacuti_Yamqui_es.gif

Thats the Incan depiction of the creator, the large ellipse connecting or separating 2 star groups of 5 and 4. Compare that with the Fremont panel from Utah, the creator (Indian with bow and arrow) passes by 5 outer 'sheep' to kill the horned deity 4th from the left.

https://grahamhancock.com/davidga1/

Pueblo Indians of the American SW just south of the 9 Mile Canyon petroglyphs built their towns to match the constellation of Orion.

 

[Ajidica]

Apparently UK department stores are also built on sites of ancient magical power!

 

[Berzerker]

we're off to Wolverhampton in search of the holy grail

 

[cardgame]

This is basically just playing numerology with geography.

If you could make straight lines or actually meaningful symbols with such a degree of accuracy good enough to prove it was intentional - as I've read the placement of the Great Pyramid's corner angles were - then I might be interested.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Here we go again...

Any planet in this solar system taking thousands of years to orbit the Sun would be located a hell of a lot farther out than the Kuiper Belt objects we know about - and they can't be seen without a telescope. No, the ancient peoples did not have telescopes.

What does take thousands of years to orbit are the long-term comets in the Oort Cloud. Funny, but I don't remember any of my anthropology classes mentioning temples to comets. Even in the 20th century there was all kinds of stupid superstitious nonsense promoted about Halley's Comet.

 

[Modder_Mode]

People have similar views on total solar eclipses. The sun and moon are at the right distance and size to create the total eclipse and because the moon is slowly moving away from the Earth the total solar eclipse events happen during a specific time frame in Earth's history, when there is intelligence to observe it.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Which is a happy coincidence for us.

 

[Senethro]

The people researching the 9th planet think it never approaches the solar system proper but can only be 'seen' now thru its effects on objects further out, like Kuiper Belt objects. But if it does swing into the solar system - like maybe the asteroid belt - then it would be seen for a few months or a year and fade from view... and memory. People would have found ways to record its passing in their religions, myths and architecture. So the theory goes anyway.

Why would people orient holy sites towards this phenomena they cannot see? The idea is just stupid.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Why would people orient holy sites towards this phenomena they cannot see? The idea is just stupid.

Especially when they couldn't have known about the phenomena in the first place.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Well he's talking about planets on elliptical orbits that become visible to the naked eye. They would be less impressive than comets though, so I don't see why they'd get monuments built for them, let alone be "god".

 

[Berzerker]

This is basically just playing numerology with geography.

If you could make straight lines or actually meaningful symbols with such a degree of accuracy good enough to prove it was intentional - as I've read the placement of the Great Pyramid's corner angles were - then I might be interested.

From the 1st link:

In order to verify his theory, Watkins did the following: he took a map of one of Southern England districts, calculated 51 churches and started searching for lines on the map. He discovered 38 lines connecting 3 churches, 8 lines connecting 4 churches, and only one line that connected 5 churches. Then he randomly drew 51 points on a sheet of paper. There were 34 coincidences for three points, just one coincidence for 4 points, and no coincidences for 5. Thus he concluded an accidental coincidence was possible for 3 points. But if there are more points, this should be a certain plan.

Now that was for religious sites in part of England and not the French and Norse ley lines, but the two maps show 12 and 8 towns forming an angle at the town of Alaise. Some ley lines were designed to point to other sacred sites of course, and its possible some point to places like Gizeh, Jerusalem or Baalbek like an earlier version of praying toward Mecca. I got something wrong in my OP, the star names appear for the sites lined up from E-W in Spain.

Here we go again...

Any planet in this solar system taking thousands of years to orbit the Sun would be located a hell of a lot farther out than the Kuiper Belt objects we know about - and they can't be seen without a telescope. No, the ancient peoples did not have telescopes.

What does take thousands of years to orbit are the long-term comets in the Oort Cloud. Funny, but I don't remember any of my anthropology classes mentioning temples to comets. Even in the 20th century there was all kinds of stupid superstitious nonsense promoted about Halley's Comet.

The people researching the 9th planet believe it stays out beyond the Kuiper Belt but its effect on KBOs can be detected helping us narrow down its location. People understood comets and planets were different, the latter were celestial gods and comets were typically feared, seen as bad omens, bringers of destruction. Probably our ancestors had seen them before as they either hit the Earth or blew up in the atmosphere.

A competing theory about this 9th planet is it follows an orbit like a long term comet measured in thousands of years. But it does approach the inner planets becoming visible for a short time, long enough to establish rudimentary orbital characteristics inspiring the construction of temples. If people saw this planet rising on the SE horizon they'd place a marker there and have a ley line.

I spent some time out in the S Utah desert camped at a site that had been used by Indians for astronomical alignments, the sighting hole in the main rock pointed to the SE horizon. It looked too far south to be a solar or lunar alignment. So I'm intrigued by these two lines in France and Denmark/Germany pointing SE.

Why would people orient holy sites towards this phenomena they cannot see? The idea is just stupid.

They could see it... This planet of god follows a highly elliptical orbit like the long term comets we occasionally see, they approach the sun and remain visible a while and disappear from sight. But we might be able to detect it's effects on the Kuiper Belt and other members of the solar system. For example, one of the most perplexing mysteries of our solar system is why its tilted, why the planets other than Mercury dont orbit the sun's equatorial plane.

Well he's talking about planets on elliptical orbits that become visible to the naked eye. They would be less impressive than comets though, so I don't see why they'd get monuments built for them, let alone be "god".

Comets are impressive but they were usually viewed as demonic rather than divine. According to various cosmologies "God" appears and disappears. The Incan ellipse shows something approach Earth and leaving, the 9 Mile Canyon glyph shows a 'creator' out beyond the planets but targeting the horned deity in the center, a Zulu myth claims their ancestors waged war on the ape men when the war star rose in the sky.

The temple at Chichen Itza has 9 levels with "God" on top. On the equinoxes at sunrise and sunset their god (Kukulcan/Queztalcoatl) appears as a serpent slithering up or down the 9 steps and the Toltecs believed the 'universe' was compromised of 13 levels of Heaven with 9 Lords of the Night. But in their heaven the creator occupied two levels, just like the Incan ellipse. The Enuma Elish (Babylonian epic of creation) describes the creator (Marduk) as being born out beyond the planetary gods and killing Tiamat located in the center.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Okay.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Orion as a set of 7 stars has a complicated history. Its stars are predominant in the winter sky. The question seems to me to be: Why would any culture even want to lay out their towns in a star pattern, let alone this one? To do so deliberately, they must have had a reason. If Group A had such a great reason, why wouldn't group B (their neighbor) copy them? See the Americas section below from Wiki. How come the Babylonians and Egyptians treat the stars differently? Humans do like to find patterns. We do it well. But finding a pattern doesn't mean that there is significance to that pattern. For example, crops were domesticated and pyramids built in both hemispheres. Is that a pattern? Two patterns? Are they connected?

So someone has found a pattern that might show that Hopi and Egyptians towns can be associated with the star pattern of Orion. it implies deliberateness. That asks "why?" Do you have an answer?

The earliest known depiction linked to the constellation of Orion is a prehistoric (Aurignacian) mammoth ivory carving found in a cave in the Ach valley in West Germany in 1979. Archaeologists estimate that it is 32,000 to 38,000 years old.[3][4][5] The distinctive pattern of Orion is recognized in numerous cultures around the world, and many myths are associated with it. Orion is used as a symbol in the modern world.

Ancient Near East

Orion (constellation) Art
The Babylonian star catalogues of the Late Bronze Age name Orion MULSIPA.ZI.AN.NA,[note 1] "The Heavenly Shepherd" or "True Shepherd of Anu" – Anu being the chief god of the heavenly realms.[6] The Babylonian constellation is sacred to Papshukal and Ninshubur, both minor gods fulfilling the role of 'messenger to the gods'. Papshukal is closely associated with the figure of a walking bird on Babylonian boundary stones, and on the star map the figure of the Rooster is located below and behind the figure of the True Shepherd—both constellations represent the herald of the gods, in his bird and human forms respectively.[7]

In ancient Egypt, the stars of Orion were regarded as a god, called Sah. Because Orion rises before Sirius, the star whose heliacal rising was the basis for the Solar Egyptian calendar, Sah was closely linked with Sopdet, the goddess who personified Sirius. The god Sopdu is said to be the son of Sah and Sopdet. Sah is syncretized with Osiris, while Sopdet is syncretized with Osiris' mythological wife, Isis. In the Pyramid Texts, from the 24th and 23rd centuries BC, Sah is one of many gods whose form the dead pharaoh is said to take in the afterlife.[8]

The Armenians identified their legendary patriarch and founder Hayk with Orion. Hayk is also the name of the Orion constellation in the Armenian translation of the Bible.[9]

The Bible mentions Orion three times, naming it "Kesil" (כסיל, literally – fool). Though, this name perhaps is etymologically connected with "Kislev", the name for the ninth month of the Hebrew calendar (i.e. November–December), which, in turn, may derive from the Hebrew root K-S-L as in the words "kesel, kisla" (כֵּסֶל, כִּסְלָה, hope, positiveness), i.e. hope for winter rains.: Job 9:9 ("He is the maker of the Bear and Orion"), Job 38:31 ("Can you loosen Orion's belt?"), and Amos 5:8 ("He who made the Pleiades and Orion").

In ancient Aram, the constellation was known as Nephîlā′, the Nephilim are said to be Orion's descendants.[10]

Greco-Roman antiquity
Main article: Orion (mythology)
In Greek mythology, Orion was a gigantic, supernaturally strong hunter,[11] born to Euryale, a Gorgon, and Poseidon (Neptune), god of the sea. One myth recounts Gaia's rage at Orion, who dared to say that he would kill every animal on Earth. The angry goddess tried to dispatch Orion with a scorpion. This is given as the reason that the constellations of Scorpius and Orion are never in the sky at the same time. However, Ophiuchus, the Serpent Bearer, revived Orion with an antidote. This is said to be the reason that the constellation of Ophiuchus stands midway between the Scorpion and the Hunter in the sky.[12]

The constellation is mentioned in Horace's Odes (Ode 3.27.18), Homer's Odyssey (Book 5, line 283) and Iliad, and Virgil's Aeneid (Book 1, line 535)

Middle East
In medieval Muslim astronomy, Orion was known as al-jabbar, "the giant".[13] Orion's sixth brightest star, Saiph, is named from the Arabic, saif al-jabbar, meaning "sword of the giant".[14]

Asian antiquity
In China, Orion was one of the 28 lunar mansions Sieu (Xiu) (宿). It is known as Shen (參), literally meaning "three", for the stars of Orion's Belt. (See Chinese constellations)

The Chinese character 參 (pinyin shēn) originally meant the constellation Orion (Chinese: 參宿; pinyin: shēnxiù); its Shang dynasty version, over three millennia old, contains at the top a representation of the three stars of Orion's belt atop a man's head (the bottom portion representing the sound of the word was added later).[15]

The Rig Veda refers to the Orion Constellation as Mriga (The Deer).[16] It is said that two bright stars in the front and two bright stars in the rear are The hunting dogs, the one comparatively less bright star in the middle and ahead of two front dogs is The hunter and three aligned bright stars are in the middle of all four hunting dogs is The Deer (The Mriga) and three little aligned but less brighter stars is The Baby Deer. The Mriga means Deer, locally known as Harnu in folk parlance. There are many folk songs narrating the Harnu. The Malay called Orion's Belt Bintang Tiga Beradik (the "Three Brother Star").[citation needed]

In India, Nataraja ‘the cosmic dancer’ (an avatar of Shiva) is seen in the constellation called Orion.[17]

The Bugis sailors was identified three stars in Orion's Belt as tanra tellué, meaning "sign of three" [18]

European folklore

Star formation in the constellation Orion as photographed in infrared by NASA's Spitzer Space Telescope
In old Hungarian tradition, "Orion" is known as (magic) Archer (Íjász), or Reaper (Kaszás). In recently rediscovered myths, he is called Nimrod (Hungarian "Nimród"), the greatest hunter, father of the twins "Hunor" and "Magor". The "π" and "o" stars (on upper right) form together the reflex bow or the lifted scythe. In other Hungarian traditions, "Orion's belt" is known as "Judge's stick" (Bírópálca).[19]

In Scandinavian tradition, "Orion's belt" was known as Frigg's Distaff (friggerock) or Freyja's distaff.[20]

The Finns call Orion's belt and the stars below it Väinämöisen viikate (Väinämöinen's scythe).[21] Another name for the asterism of Alnilam, Alnitak and Mintaka is Väinämöisen vyö (Väinämöinen's Belt) and the stars "hanging" from the belt as Kalevanmiekka (Kaleva's sword).

In Siberia, the Chukchi people see Orion as a hunter; an arrow he has shot is represented by Aldebaran (Alpha Tauri), with the same figure as other Western depictions.[22]

Americas
The Seri people of northwestern Mexico call the three stars in the belt of Orion Hapj (a name denoting a hunter) which consists of three stars: Hap (mule deer), Haamoja (pronghorn), and Mojet (bighorn sheep). Hap is in the middle and has been shot by the hunter; its blood has dripped onto Tiburón Island.[23]

The Ojibwa (Chippewa) Native Americans call this constellation Kabibona'kan, the Winter Maker, as its presence in the night sky heralds winter.[citation needed]

To the Lakota Native Americans, Tayamnicankhu (Orion's Belt) is the spine of a bison. The great rectangle of Orion are the bison's ribs; the Pleiades star cluster in nearby Taurus is the bison's head; and Sirius in Canis Major, known as Tayamnisinte, is its tail. Another Lakota myth mentions that the bottom half of Orion, the Constellation of the Hand, represented the arm of a chief that was ripped off by the Thunder People as a punishment from the gods for his selfishness. His daughter offered to marry the person who can retrieve his arm from the sky, so the young warrior Fallen Star (whose father was a star and whose mother was human) returned his arm and married his daughter, symbolizing harmony between the gods and humanity with the help of the younger generation. The index finger is represented by Rigel; the Orion Nebula is the thumb; the Belt of Orion is the wrist; and the star Beta Eridani is the pinky finger.[25]

Polynesian
Main article: Heiheionakeiki
The seven primary stars of Orion make up the Polynesian constellation Heiheionakeiki which represents a child's string figure similar to a cat's cradle.

 

[Truthy]

From the 1st link:

In order to verify his theory, Watkins did the following: he took a map of one of Southern England districts, calculated 51 churches and started searching for lines on the map. He discovered 38 lines connecting 3 churches, 8 lines connecting 4 churches, and only one line that connected 5 churches. Then he randomly drew 51 points on a sheet of paper. There were 34 coincidences for three points, just one coincidence for 4 points, and no coincidences for 5. Thus he concluded an accidental coincidence was possible for 3 points. But if there are more points, this should be a certain plan.

He ran a little simulation by hand and called that "verification." Quite the intrepid statistician isn't he.

I don't know if I made it clear just how bad this is in my first response. As you increase your degrees of freedom, the odds of finding interesting coincidences increases exponentially. You could pick churches. Odds not high enough? Throw in Norse castles, Celtic burial sites. Then why not cities, towns, historical monuments, locations of battles, and shopping malls? Next you have many degrees of freedom in terms of whether you look for lines, pentagrams, octagons, latitudes that encode the speed of light, or whatever. You also have arbitrary tolerance for what's close enough.

It's just data dredging. Ajidica's example illustrates the point very well. Or check out this.

 

[Berzerker]

He ran a little simulation by hand and called that "verification." Quite the intrepid statistician isn't he.

I don't know if I made it clear just how bad this is in my first response. As you increase your degrees of freedom, the odds of finding interesting coincidences increases exponentially. You could pick churches. Odds not high enough? Throw in Norse castles, Celtic burial sites. Then why not cities, towns, historical monuments, locations of battles, and shopping malls? Next you have many degrees of freedom in terms of whether you look for lines, pentagrams, octagons, latitudes that encode the speed of light, or whatever. You also have arbitrary tolerance for what's close enough.

It's just data dredging. Ajidica's example illustrates the point very well. Or check out this.

Woolworths didn't plop stores down randomly, they chose existing towns... Towns that might have been built along ley lines. The 6 center stores look a bit like 2 versions of Orion's Belt . We find the same configuration with the main pyramids at Gizeh and Teotihuacan.

But using points that far apart from the center with nothing in between wouldn't impress me nearly as much as the lines of towns with related names at that link. The French map shows 12 towns with Calais in the northwest and Calesi and Cales in Italy.

Washington DC was laid out by a Mason using their symbolism, I'm sure the Templars and Druids etc were involved in deciding what sites would be considered sacred and what structures were needed to commemorate them.

Given mankind's proclivity for superimposing what we saw in the sky onto the ground I believe they would have recorded the celestial lord's path of righteousness. I'd expect the constellations it rose and set in would be mythologized too.

https://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_cygnus02.htm

If a planet with an inclined orbit rose in the SE and set in the NW, maybe Cygnus the Swan is involved. Could be the constellation providing the background when that planet set or faded from sight.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

But what I want to know is how does the "hammered bracelet" fit into all this?