Ley Lines - a Path to God?

But then you wouldn't know that The Holy Grail is buried between 3 Woolworths locations...

Apparently UK department stores are also built on sites of ancient magical power!
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I had a half written reply in here which I never finished and has gone missing. I don't feel like going through it all again, but this reminds me of one of the points in it...

Btw, did you know the Enuma Elish described the creator Marduk as being clothed with the halo of 10 gods before splitting Tiamat to form Heaven and Earth? Thats 12 members of the solar system:

You keep asserting direct links between things that people believed that aren't to do with planets or members of the solar system, and planets and members of the solar system. I can accept that maybe these things were allegorical and did actually represent planets, but you can't just say that they are. Like when you said:

The Enuma Elish describes an invading planet passing 5 outer planets and colliding with the 6th planet.

Without knowing anything about it, I'd be willing to bet that it doesn't describe any such thing at all, it just describes something that you've decided to interpret that way.
 
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In that poly thread Elok was interested enough to draw up Saturn's equatorial plane to see if Pluto was on it, he confirmed it was.

It's not though is it. They are both moving on independent orbits so Pluto can't always be in Saturn's equatorial plane, unless either:

a) Saturn's equatorial plane is aligned with its orbital plane around the sun (which it isn't) AND Pluto's orbital plane is aligned with Saturn's orbital plane (which it isn't). Or,

b) Pluto is in orbit around Saturn itself, in Saturn's equatorial plane (which it isn't).
 
Cool. Well I'm hardly one to talk, I spam threads on space all the time. I'm just surprised I hadn't come across this before.
The difference is that you provide facts, not fiction, and you have RL credentials and knowledge to back up what you say.
 
Unless I'm bored enough to search for all of them, the word "umpteenth" will suffice.

At least you didn't post the OP for that ridiculous "Atlanteologist" thread.

I have my standards

But dont get me started, I have my pet theory about that too.

For example (uh oh, too late), I think its interesting Plato's Atlantis dates to 9600 BC which is around the same time as Gobekli Tepe and the end of the Younger Dryas.

I can't speak for others, but I have neither told nor suggested to the mods that the thread be shut down.

Wishing you would stop posting them is not the same thing.

(or the mods have enough)

But then you wouldn't know that The Holy Grail is buried between 3 Woolworths locations...

The grail was Jesus' bloodline, so its probably buried in S France

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holy_Blood_and_the_Holy_Grail
 
Berz, are you sure that the guy at 'poly wasn't just... having a little fun with you. Seeing what you'll believe?

I had already done the calculations for Saturn and Pluto, I told him about it and he duplicated my results. He was surprised. I knew he would be, I was too.

You keep asserting direct links between things that people believed that aren't to do with planets or members of the solar system, and planets and members of the solar system. I can accept that maybe these things were allegorical and did actually represent planets, but you can't just say that they are. Like when you said:

Without knowing anything about it, I'd be willing to bet that it doesn't describe any such thing at all, it just describes something that you've decided to interpret that way.

I (and this is Sitchin's idea) interpret Marduk to be an invading planet because the story is describing events leading up to the creation of the planets, a later disruption to their orbits (the divine brothers banded together troubling Tiamat), and eventual splitting in two of Tiamat (biblical Tehom) to form Heaven and Earth. What evidence do we have for this?

1) The asteroid belt exists
2) The 'snow line' divides the asteroid belt
3) Earth's water came from the asteroid belt
4) Earth formed surrounded by water, therefore
5) Earth formed at the asteroid belt

The direct link is "God"... Someone told our ancestors about the solar system

Gen 1:2 - the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.”

A dark water covered world was struck by a glancing blow producing rotation and later events brought it closer to the sun where land (earth) and life appeared. I think this invading planet might exist and people recorded its passage in myth and with ley lines.

It's not though is it. They are both moving on independent orbits so Pluto can't always be in Saturn's equatorial plane, unless either:

a) Saturn's equatorial plane is aligned with its orbital plane around the sun (which it isn't) AND Pluto's orbital plane is aligned with Saturn's orbital plane (which it isn't). Or,

b) Pluto is in orbit around Saturn itself, in Saturn's equatorial plane (which it isn't).

If you look back in the thread you will see I said Pluto's perihelion was on Saturn's equatorial plane. Saturn's orbit takes ~30 years and Pluto's ~250, as Pluto nears the sun it does align with Saturn's rings.

Now if Pluto was ejected from Saturn and stayed in orbit then its entire orbit would be on Saturn's equatorial plane, but Pluto was thrown far enough away for the Sun (and other planets) to become the dominant gravitational source. But Pluto still does revisit the equatorial plane of its parent planet.

And... Saturn's about 10x the Earth's distance from the Sun, Pluto's about 30 and 50 AU, subtract Saturn's 10 from Pluto and the result is 20 and 40 AU. Maybe just a coincidence, but a 1 to 2 ratio is conspicuous.
 
I have my standards

But dont get me started, I have my pet theory about that too.

For example (uh oh, too late), I think its interesting Plato's Atlantis dates to 9600 BC which is around the same time as Gobekli Tepe and the end of the Younger Dryas.
Yes, there are a lot of things Plato got wrong.

The grail was Jesus' bloodline, so its probably buried in S France

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holy_Blood_and_the_Holy_Grail
:rolleyes:

I fail to see the relevance of this.
 
For example (uh oh, too late), I think its interesting Plato's Atlantis dates to 9600 BC which is around the same time as Gobekli Tepe and the end of the Younger Dryas.
To resolve the questions about Atlantis you have to answer each of these items from Plato's story:

These are the relevant points from Plato's story:
  • A dominating, advanced Island culture existed: Atlantis
  • There was a war between mainland Greece (the protagonist) and that island culture
  • The Greeks won
  • There was a cataclysm
  • Atlantis was destroyed
  • The protagonists was destroyed
  • A consistent timeline is needed that fits with known events. The time line needs to include one for Atlantis and one for Plato's story.
  • Archaeological information must be consistent

You should make you case.
 
I just had a thought about one of the arguments Sitchiniswrong made about the sun symbol and VA 243. He pointed out that Utu or Shamash - the Mesopotamian sun god - is lower on the totem pole in the Sumerian pantheon. Sitchin and his fans knew this already, but if his symbol was used for VA 243 it would give people the impression he was the head of the pantheon. Thats why his symbol was not used for the diagram on the cylinder seal.

Besides, the first 'gods' were the fresh and salt water called Abzu and Tiamat. The Sun did seed the solar system with fresh water and the inner planet(s) receiving it would produce saltwater. When I first read Sitchin's theory I could understand why Tiamat was a source of saltwater. but why would the Sun be described as fresh water? Because it puts out fresh water vapor that would have mixed with dust grains and planets to become saltwater.

Is it malice or ignorance that causes absolutely noone to think pluto was a moon of saturn?

People need time to catch up to the Sumerians, we just found their writings ~150 years ago
 
People need time to catch up to the Sumerians, we just found their writings ~150 years ago

Or maybe its the lack of evidence and useful predictions. All you're doing is mixing 9 parts bullfeathers to one part fact, and that fact was discovered by actual scientists who were not working to your theories. You just trawl through their work looking for numbers that can be misinterpreted to fit your idiot patterns.

You are completely unable to use your secret knowledge to make a useful or accurate prediction which is verified subsequently.
 
The only Pluto esque planet being a moon of our gas giants is triton being captured by Neptune. The other direction.
 
If you look back in the thread you will see I said Pluto's perihelion was on Saturn's equatorial plane. Saturn's orbit takes ~30 years and Pluto's ~250, as Pluto nears the sun it does align with Saturn's rings.

250 is divisible by 30 yes, but you rounded those numbers. Pluto and Saturn aren't actually in an orbital resonance so this neat alignment (if it happens at all) certainly doesn't happen every time Pluto is at perihelion.

Now if Pluto was ejected from Saturn and stayed in orbit then its entire orbit would be on Saturn's equatorial plane

Being pedantic of course, but if that were the case it wouldn't really have been ejected :)

but Pluto was thrown far enough away for the Sun (and other planets) to become the dominant gravitational source. But Pluto still does revisit the equatorial plane of its parent planet.

You asserting this with zero evidence does is not convincing. And the above coincidence (if it can ever really be called as much) is zero evidence. Pluto's in a completely different orbit, in a completely different plane. I'm not saying it's impossible that it could have been a satellite of Saturn that was ejected, but if it had been there would be no reason for some part of it's orbit to occasionally lie in the equatorial plane of Saturn at any specific time. Indeed any two bodies in orbit around the same centre, whatever their orbital and rotational alignments, are going to intersect each other's equatorial planes fairly regularly. This doesn't mean anything.

And... Saturn's about 10x the Earth's distance from the Sun, Pluto's about 30 and 50 AU, subtract Saturn's 10 from Pluto and the result is 20 and 40 AU. Maybe just a coincidence, but a 1 to 2 ratio is conspicuous.

Are we delving into numerology now? Because that certainly doesn't mean anything astronomically.
 
250 is divisible by 30 yes, but you rounded those numbers. Pluto and Saturn aren't actually in an orbital resonance so this neat alignment (if it happens at all) certainly doesn't happen every time Pluto is at perihelion.
250 is not divisible by 30 unless of course you mean in the way that every number is divisible by every number?
Are we delving into numerology now? Because that certainly doesn't mean anything astronomically.

Since when are we not into numerology?
 
Or maybe its the lack of evidence and useful predictions. All you're doing is mixing 9 parts bullfeathers to one part fact, and that fact was discovered by actual scientists who were not working to your theories. You just trawl through their work looking for numbers that can be misinterpreted to fit your idiot patterns.

You are completely unable to use your secret knowledge to make a useful or accurate prediction which is verified subsequently.

I used Sitchin's interpretation of the Enuma Elish to find Saturn's rings pointing at Pluto at perihelion. Researchers have discovered our water came from the asteroid belt, thats another verified prediction.

Genesis predicted a water covered world before landmasses and life. Scientists thought the first few hundred million years was a magma hell but have since dated Earth's oldest 'rock' (zircon) to about 4.4 bya and it formed in water. The reason rock is so hard to find from this period is the surface was pummeled around 4 bya, but the rock we do find shows evidence of liquid water.

One current theory is island arcs and eventually continents and life began appearing not too long after an event called the late heavy bombardment - about 4 bya the Earth was plastered by large objects loaded with heavy (and radioactive) elements. An event that likely triggered plate tectonics by thinning and cracking the crust like an eggshell and churning up the insides.

But its possible impactors created original cores to proto-continents. If a 300 hundred mile wide object hit the Earth slowly enough it could produce a highland above water. Differentiation and erosion would modify the cores and plate tectonics built them up and moved them around forming occasional supercontinents.

If researchers had actually followed this 'secret knowledge' we'd be further along in our understanding of Earth and the solar system.

Scientists had claimed the Earth could not form here with its water, so they imported the water. Now they're telling us based on earthquake data the mantle has plenty of water too and the Earth must have formed surrounded by water.

But the early solar wind was supposed to remove water from the inner planets pushing it out to the snow line, the point where water vapor condensed. Thats why the asteroid belt has a dry inner half and wet outer half. So how did the Earth form surrounded by water if its been here the entire time? What numbers did I misrepresent?

250 is divisible by 30 yes, but you rounded those numbers. Pluto and Saturn aren't actually in an orbital resonance so this neat alignment (if it happens at all) certainly doesn't happen every time Pluto is at perihelion.

I made my calculations with Saturn and Pluto in conjunction which is more or less the alignment I'd expect if Pluto was ejected. Now I understand orbits precess in a variety of ways including ascending nodes, but currently Pluto does ascend the ecliptic a few degrees ahead of Saturn. That makes sense since Pluto would have been ejected from Saturn at a ~26.7 degree angle thereby reaching the ecliptic before Saturn.

Now like I said, orbits change and I'd be skeptical of such artifacts surviving over 4 billion years. But that aside, the 250 and 30 were to show Pluto spends enough time near perihelion for Saturn's rings to point at it regardless of where Saturn is in its orbit.

Now its possible Saturn is past the alignment point when Pluto nears perihelion and will need 20 years to come into alignment, but if Pluto spends ~20 years near perihelion that would be enough time. As Pluto leaves perihelion and is climbing up away from the other planets its angle from Saturn decreases so at some point after making its turn Pluto will leave Saturn's equatorial plane. The alignment does occur when Saturn and Pluto are near conjuction.

In addition to the 2:1 (~40 AU and 20 AU) ratio in Pluto's orbit created by subtracting Saturn's distance to the Sun, Pluto and Charon form a double planet which suggests both formed from the same object that split during a significant disruption. That suggests a gravitational tug of war (or impactor) although one planet could have caused it I suppose, but I'm not sure about that.

Pluto's in a completely different orbit, in a completely different plane. I'm not saying it's impossible that it could have been a satellite of Saturn that was ejected, but if it had been there would be no reason for some part of it's orbit to occasionally lie in the equatorial plane of Saturn at any specific time. Indeed any two bodies in orbit around the same centre, whatever their orbital and rotational alignments, are going to intersect each other's equatorial planes fairly regularly. This doesn't mean anything.

I considered that back when I drew my diagram long ago, I may have missed something but I couldn't find another planet's equatorial plane intersecting with Pluto's perihelion (or aphelion), just Saturn.

Now we here on Earth can see Saturn's rings edge on but there's no apparent mechanism for Saturn launching the Earth into this orbit. We'd be launched into a Pluto-like orbit tilted to the other planets.

Are we delving into numerology now? Because that certainly doesn't mean anything astronomically.

Not numerology, just the 'coincidence' Pluto's apehelion and perihelion form a 2:1 ratio when Saturn's orbital distance is subtracted from it. I'd expect mathematical relationships between 2 objects separated by a disruption, that may be one of them.
 
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You're doing the reverse telescope thing where you magnify small facts (or even non-facts) into having huge significance and disregard big ones.

Another example situation I've seen you do this in is in attempting to determine which american political party is more racist in recent history, so I suspect this is just something intrinsic to your thought process.

Pluto looks like and has the properties, as we understand them, of a KBO. But perhaps you could compare it, with reference to composition and structure, to the moons of Saturn believe to have formed in situ and use this as a better quality of evidence?
 
I determined which party is more racist in recent history? Are you gonna quote me? As for KBO's, how do you think the people researching the 9th Planet stumbled onto their theory? By studying the orbits of KBOs. And if Pluto was the product of a major disruption involving Saturn and another planet, then maybe a bunch of those KBOs are a result of the same disruption. These asteroid belts are debris trails from collisions, not 'failed planets' that didn't form because of neighboring planets.

But thats a good idea

https://www.space.com/pluto-hazy-organics-surprise-scientists.html

Pluto's atmosphere is more like Saturn's moon Titan than Neptune's moon Triton

The scientists were able to model the three worlds to better understand their hazes, and concluded that on all three worlds, the haze consists of small, icy particles. But on Triton, that's water ice. On Pluto, a reddish tinge to the light signature scientists studied points to organic particles in that haze. "It's a factory for creating organic molecules," Buratti said of the dwarf world. "Triton is icy, but Pluto is more like Titan."
 
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