Lionised and Vilified

[pigswill]

As long as we keep education monopoly then we probably have a reasonable chance of getting economics first for free GM for Cereal Mills.

With cuirassiers almost done we're in a position to start refusing AI demands which is always nicer than not being in a position to refuse. Revenge is a dish best served cold.....

Staying in pacifism after switching to NSR was of course a misclick. To be picky is there any particular reason that we haven't mined the silver?

 

[Cam_H]

Oh btw suleiman has still some troops in Bursa (the city in the northern middle of our empire) and is very annoying for us, since it already stole 2 very important tiles for our future OU city (Hamburg it is?)

Yep ... he Culture bombed it ... twice.

(More reasons to get up Uni's!).

 

[vranasm]

ha! so much talk and then we have in 2 days 2 turnsets done :-D

I guess cam has to bring his whip button up and buid up for us some nice army!

 

[vranasm]

call me paranoid, but I don't like the look at the suleiman's bursa stack.

We can beg some gold except from suleiman... but we should get imo at least 120g that way ;-)

 

[lymond]

Yep, once we get Gunpowder we need to whip without prejudice except Munich(obviously) and Hamburg. Munich has a forge now crazyeye and both AP buildings next turn, so it should be able to crank the units.

 

[lymond]

call me paranoid, but I don't like the look at the suleiman's bursa stack.

We can beg some gold except from suleiman... but we should get imo at least 120g that way ;-)

Sully is not a problem until he fists. Better yet he is pleased so we could bribe him in on someone.

We need to be careful with the begs. Don't be from Cathy or Maria yet. Vicky we can beg from and Sully whenever he gets gold.

We can trade off old techs to Gustav and Maria when they get some gold. Hopefully Engineering will pop up soon for trade. The road movement will be nice.

 

[vranasm]

Sully is not a problem until he fists. Better yet he is pleased so we could bribe him in on someone.

We need to be careful with the begs. Don't be from Cathy or Maria yet. Vicky we can beg from and Sully whenever he gets gold.

We can trade off old techs to Gustav and Maria when they get some gold. Hopefully Engineering will pop up soon for trade. The road movement will be nice.

sometimes when AI feels you're getting out of hands (especially when you are to get good military tech) it goes nuts with immediate backstab.

Bursa seems important for Sully if it got already twice culture bombed...

I think you're planning on holding back with begs until DoW on Cathy? We can't beg from Cathy before the attack so I would probably beg some gold now.

I almost think we should be able to attack in ~15 turns especially if she fights with Nappy.
Have question... if she vassals Nappy will we get forced peace with both? Certainly worth the look further.

Cathy will have depleted troops in those 15 turns imo, so we could backstab with smaller force then usually, maybe even we could take opportunity attack with those 6 WE's upgraded to Cuirs...

 

[lymond]

If Nappy vassals to Cathy then we would still be at war with both.

Oh wait....we can bet gold from Cathy. The peace treaty that just ended was the Philo request. I was just saying that as we had recently come out of peace treaties with those leaders, so we should wait a bit. Also, should not beg with any friend of whoever with DOW on so we can beg 1 gold before the attack.

I expect Cathy/Nappy to be a stalemate, but you never know.

I'd like to get an Army in place before 15 turns. We can build more elephants now and upgrade them later. Once we have Gunpowder we can get out probably about 14 or so new Curs in 4 turns, plus the upgrade phants.

We could try making a quick play on Nappy to vassal him...take his cap and shrine.

We could steamroll this map.

 

[vranasm]

We could steamroll this map.

amen to this.

i don't like attacking nappy before cathy though ;-) logistics problems imo (we're separated now etc).

 

[Sengir]

There's a problem with steamrolling though: We're required to found and spread to corps before we finish


I'd prefer to attack Cathy before Nappy as well. Get GP, zero slider to upgrade the WE's then backstab Cathy (and research Economics for the GM I suppose). To please Cam we should probably whip some units into uni's.

I think Bursa is Sully's only source of Iron, but I'm not completely sure. Anyway, there's an easy way to get those tiles back Cathy first though.

 

[pigswill]

No problem: get to 50% land, spread Cereal Mills, get our culture city then finish off. Probably easier than meeting our other objectives and trying to steamroll later. Given that DP with Cat or Gustav is one of our objectives and also that Cat is our main threat them crushing Russia until Cat caps makes sense to me.

 

[Sengir]

Oh, I don't mind steamrolling, just saying that we should keep an eye on the % land we have.

 

[lymond]

. To please Cam we should probably whip some units into uni's.
.

Well, we do have about 7 or 8 Unis up already

It will take time to get Berlin up to 20,000 culture, so we should have plenty of time to steamroll and get corps. Our teching should be decent to roll up through Corp.

However, we should try to get Rifling soon for Cavalry.

 

[Sengir]

Ah, I missed that, that's rather nice. Haven't had time to check the save yet.

 

[pigswill]

Checked variants: we need to switch to FR asap.

 

[Cam_H]

OK - this is a 'got it'.

I'll aim for a pre-play plan this evening and hopefully play within two days.

'Turn 1' = Anarchy.

 

[Sengir]

Turn 2 - 14: Whip out an army
Turn 15: DoW Cathy

 

[Cam_H]

All righty then ...

Munich ... it really needs to grow. I'm happy enough with the Jewish Temple in 1, but honestly ... grow, grow, grow! This city has so much awesomeness that's only 50% leveraged ... slow build Elephants until we hit the ceiling.

Berlin ... 'yes' to Jewish Monastery whip proposition ... but too late to 'muck' around with Jewish Temple. Let's build Taj and debate Hermitage later (do you see how I slipped that in ).

Hamburg ... I'm quite OK to press on with Oxford, but would much prefer to work the Mine. I can't otherwise see a work-around other than the Forge whip, we'll just have to press on with patience after that.

Cologne ... with irrigation chains set up, I'm fine with growth. Hard to whip this city though.

Frankfurt ... needs Worker attention. Otherwise, "Whip Central".

Essen and Dortmund ... concur with the Forge builds, and then Elephants.

Stuttgart ... puzzled by the city, as I would have thought (despite the Gold) that this was a production site. Needs irrigation. Complete the Uni (because it's cheap) but focus more on military requirements from there.

Düsseldorf was always a junk city to grab the Marble, while Bremen just has to grow ... but I'll endeavour to hook up its Silver nonetheless.

Basically try to whip War Elephants when cities with Forges get close to 22 ... otherwise Gunpowder's the target, and if we're happy to trade around Nationalism ... I will. I agree with pigswill in that Economics's free Great Merchant is still an aspiration in light of Cereal Mills.

In terms of diplo' ... I'll beg Victoria for some as discussed.

 

[lymond]

Sounds good (I did read the whole thing )

Stutt does need some attention. I wanted to give it attention but gobs of workers were in the East and I tried to get some moving their way west. The cottaged plains tiles there are a waste, but I assume that stuff was started prior to us getting CS. Still, waste of worker turns at the time.

Notice that Sully was nice enough to farm next to Cologne so we are about to irrigate the wheat there. Seems like the AI often deliberately cottages their border tiles to prevent irrigation spread.

I'd be concerned about trading away Nat too soon. It puts AIs closer to MT and Curs. I'd wait for the monopoly to fall on it. I don't think there is much to trade for at present anyway - well, Guilds and Engineering would be nice. I'd almost rather trade Edu for that stuff though.

 

[nocho]

Plan is fine, I'm just wondering if we shouldn't revolt to nationhood while getting FR. Bureau isn't doing much good and an expensive civic, while we have the globe up and are close to gunpowder. Still just 1 turn of anarchy.

Stutt does need some attention. I wanted to give it attention but gobs of workers were in the East and I tried to get some moving their way west. The cottaged plains tiles there are a waste, but I assume that stuff was started prior to us getting CS. Still, waste of worker turns at the time.

Good thing is that it was a waste of time of barb workers! The cottages are on the plains courtesy of the barb AI, we razed a barb city there which had these improvements.