Lionised and Vilified

[nocho]

Okay, seems we have a plan.

DP with Cathy, break it soon to get Gustav's city. Just sign peace/cap him afterwards? I mean, no need to move our army all the way to his tiny core, is there? Before declaring will check if he can bribe anybody, maybe bolster our NW (Hamburg) a bit, just in case.

Built more cuirs, leave the army somewhere halfway the HolyRomanOttomans and Russia.

I'll eagerly comply with the traditionalist's view of an academy in Hamburg, but part-bulbing chemistry ain't half bad either. Any other opinions? I'll repeat my other question, can we settle fish in the south freely? I hope to play this evening (12 hrs from now).

 

[vranasm]

well I think I already twice wrote that barb galleys shouldn't be able to enter ocean tiles (they don't own our culture) and thus I think the fish city could have been settled long ago ;-)

if someone else has other experience with barb galleys behavior speak now or be quiet forever! (a little bit training for saturday... I have to be witness by brothers marriage, but we don't use this sentence in CR anyway...)

 

[lymond]

barb galleys cannot enter ocean tiles and that city should have been settled asap, which was my intent when I whipped that settler

if someone else has other experience with barb galleys behavior speak now or be quiet forever! (a little bit training for saturday... I have to be witness by brothers marriage, but we don't use this sentence in CR anyway...)

neither do we

 

[nocho]

Played 6 more turns. Not much time for a decent report, sorry.

I basically stopped here for 2 reasons, Gustav will talk peace and is willing to capitulate. He'd be zero value as a vassal, so maybe better just take peace and forget about him. Still wanted to leave that to consensus.
The other reason was that we finished banking and chemistry and didn't know for sure what tech to pursue (econ or scimeth). In my wisdom I did part-bulb chemistry for some 1970 beakers IIRC. At a now even unattainable 50% science level an academy in Hamburg would net a mere 8bpt, so that meant 200+ turns to make up. Took the executive decision that the bulb was more valuable.

So we took Gustav's city for minimal losses.

Before declaring on Gustav we signed a DP with Cathy by the way for the variant.

In other news, we finally founded fish city. WB and trireme are on their way from Stuttgart. First barb galley was killed. Building a WB in the city itself would take forever and I had to build culture for some turns anyway to pop its borders.

Some more cuirs have been pumped. Most are near or at Frankfurt now, as well as the main part of our slowmoving army, in case we want to go for Russia next. Some cuirs are healing in that Gustav-city and a couple more in Hamburg for zone defense in the NW.

Had the capital grow a bit and then hired the 4 merchants. It was building the hermitage as well. I now have it configured to have hermitage in 4 turns while maintaining the merchants. It would lose pop in 8 so reconfigure after hermitage. I figured both hermitage and max chance for GM were important, hence this temporary configuration.

Not much more to say really, apart from that I settled the GG we had in Munic (HE) and we got a new one who is hanging around Berlin right now.

I'll leave my set at that with these 2+6 turns and hand it over to the next in line.

EDIT: Just noticed our horses at Hamburg have suffered spy action. That at least means something to do for our workers, who partly have been doing useless roading for lack of better things to do.

 

[Cam_H]

Just had a fleeting glimpse of the save, and looks really good. Glad to get that variant done. I'm not particularly driven one-way-or-the-ther on what to do about Gustav ... in single player I'd just cap' him to make Domination marginally easier later on. I'll aim to take a more solid look at the save later on, but for now;

nocho
Sengir <<< Up
vranasm <<< On Deck
pigswill
lymond
Cam
cabert​

 

[vranasm]

I will take a deeper look later today, but everything seems to be going according to our modified plans :-D

Since as it seems we are not hot on going for cavs we should finish any preCorps warfare we want to do now while cuirs are a bit superior.

I guess people would like to get those 2 green bugger cities in the middle and part of HRE. We don't need to cap those AI's, so we can take 2 cities from sully, maybe some from HRE and take peace?

then tech towards our corp, get culture and finish game with capping Cathy? Have to check the victory screen ;-), but it probably won't suffice

ah I forgot we wanted to go with diplomation or domination? I guess the former?

 

[lymond]

Well, the interesting thing here is that we are totally dominating the game and could probably finish it out rather quickly, but for the variant. It is still some time before we will get to Fridge and then we have to spread Cereal around to 12 cities. The tech path for the most part to Fridge is relatively "peaceful". Meaning that we could possibly lose a bit of our tech edge.

With that in mind, I say we hit Cathy now and cap her as fast as possible before she gets Curs. Probably just need to take a few of her cities or maybe even Moscow for her wonders. Capping her should not trip Domination. Then, we can sit back and build wealth and research in most cities to power through SciMeth>Fridge as fast as possible while keeping the general peace. Focus Napster and Horse Lover on teching things like Rep Parts and Rifling (and Econ>Corps) to keep up our military side so that we can then hit Vicky or whomever later to quickly finish off the dom win. Probably just need to take a few cities or cap that AI.

Not sure on Gustav. His only wonder is ToA which will obsolete on what should be our next tech. We could take Ndiros easily now but the island will be a bit of a pain, plus it will distract from focusing taking Cathy now. However, he is likely to cap to someone else.

IMO Econ is of no urgency and we should focus on the direct path to Fridge. Quick cap Cathy and then focus most of the empire on wealth/research. (we are not exactly strong in research at this stage and Hamburg is kind of a weak Ox city at present)

 

[cabert]

I'd cap gustav to have a few more votes when it comes to victory.
Then hit cathy hard, to get her to cap. or is she willing to cap peacefully?

 

[nocho]

I'd cap gustav to have a few more votes when it comes to victory.
Then hit cathy hard, to get her to cap. or is she willing to cap peacefully?

I haven't checked, but I don't think Cathy will peace-vassal. She's number 2 in both cities and power, so she must think she's doing fine on her own. That she isn't, is another matter.

 

[cabert]

just a few points :
- why aren't we running mercantilism/caste?
- why don't we have open borders with nappy? (guess it's just forgotten, but there are quite a lot of trades to do with him)
- why is our medic elephant not "free upgraded" to a medic 3 cuirassier?
- if we cap gustav, we should be able to trade for optics, which is on the path to physics

 

[lymond]

I generally keep medic units outdated a bit, but then I'm not sure if an Elephant might have better defense odds in a stack of curs. Then again, I would never make a super medic out of an Elephant.

Caste? We've been a war. Not sure about Merc. If we go peace for some time I could see a switch to both.

good point on Optics and Nappy

 

[pigswill]

Worth going for scimeth to obselete Glib to increase odds of popping GM.

 

[cabert]

Or we can ask gustav to tech astronomy while we go for corp.
Plenty time to pop the merchant IMHO

 

[Sengir]

I'm back from my holiday; will look at the save tomorrow and play sunday (or tomorrow evening).

 

[Sengir]

The plan:
- Cap Gustav
- Get Optics from him
- Set him to research Constitution
- Gift Nappy enough techs so he can research Economics for us.
- Self research Scientific Method > Bio > Medicine > Refrigeration
- Declare on Cathy (and cap her as well, we shouldn't pass the dom limit at that point).
- Check trades with vassals.
- Build Jewish Synagogue and Jewish Temple in Berlin. And other culture buildings.

Civics:
I prefer slavery myself, don't see a real reason to switch to caste. Merc is probably good though, as we still get trade routes with our vassals.

Anything I missed?

 

[nocho]

If we pass the dom limit by capping Cathy and we don't have a 20k culture city yet, would it be a loss?

 

[Cam_H]

Yep ... breeching the variant requirements (incl. Cereal Mills' spread) was the only thing that Sengir's plan had me concerned about. Can't check the game a.t.m. - but we may need to raze or settle for peace early if we're getting that close.

 

[vranasm]

we're now at 39% of world size

2nd one is sully with 19%. I don't really think that cathy is much smaller, so let's assume she has 19% too.

Gustav has 19 land tiles (which I dunno how big percentage it is), but let assume it is something like 5%.

That means 2.5% from Gustav. Let's say we take half the Cathy land and rest will be capped so we add 10% and 4.5% as vassal.

that means we would sit 56% and would be ok... The biggest unknown is Gustav's land (has someone script for calculating land tiles to know the land exactly?).
Cathy shouldn't be danger even in the worst case scenario she can add around 15% of land.
But we have to stop with wars after her.

 

[Sengir]

I can cap Gustav first and if his land is too big, we can still chose not to cap Cathy. I don't think we'll be that close to the cut-off point. We might even be able to cap another AI (or burn it down a bit )

 

[Sengir]

Turn 0:
Cap Gustav.
OB with him
He hasn't got Nationalism yet, so trade him Nationalism for Optics and set him to research Constitution (16t)

On to Nappy: OB; incense + wine for Furs and Dye, trade him Paper for 100g + WM, next turn I'll gift him Edu and he'll be able to tech Economics for us.

Set our own research to Scientific Method

Turn 1:
Revolt to Merc (1 turn anarchy, another civic would mean another turn of anarchy).

Turn 2:
Declare on Cathy
Burn down Vladivostok

Turn 3:
Moving troops

Turn 4:
Take Yakutsk

Turn 5:
More troops moving

Turn 6:
Kill of Cathy's stack

She's willing to capitulate

Spoiler :

I'd take it, switch empire out of war mode and into science/wealth mode and start working on the other goals before returning to war.

I might be able to continue tonight if the team reaches a decision on Cathy, otherwise it will be tomorrow evening. Next player can continue as well though.