LK136, Monarch, Byzantine

[LKendter]

I halt play here, with 5 turns remaining, to get advice on what, if anything, to do about Inca. Do we attempt to massively spread Buddhism within our borders and convert to it, so we can block Inca? We only have 1 city with Buddhism and that's Adrianople.

Our best bet is to spread Buddhism to all of our cities.
Long-term
the answer we have another war coming up with the Inca. Its primary goal is for us to capture the AP city, and the Buddhist holy city.

After that, we can just vassalize him and continue on our way into domination.

How would his culture affect the captured cities? I would really hate to have him as a vassal, and be stuck with our captured cities being useless.

 

[Belial]

There is no culture battle between your vasssal and your cities. You win all the tiles in your big fat cross.

This allows us more breathing room with the Incan culture as well.

 

[playshogi]

I killed 1 more unit and Joao is ready to capitulate. Should I accept it?

 

[LKendter]

I killed 1 more unit and Joao is ready to capitulate. Should I accept it?

Have we claimed the all new resources?

 

[playshogi]

Turn 322 - Ragnar makes peace with Joao.

Turn 323 - Inca builds Taj Mahal and Sankalore. A GS is born, I use it for Printing Press.

Turn 325 - Saladin offers Economics for Liberalism. I didn't know what to do with the workers, so I chopped forests down to within 1 turn of collecting. Joao is not offering capitulation, at the moment. I went back to Org. Rel. because most of the cities were still in building mode.

 

[playshogi]

Have we claimed the all new resources?

Not yet, but can't we just demand the resources from a vassal?

I think we should spread Buddhism to Antioch and other hammer-challenged cities and build the temple there for 2 extra hammers.

Don't forget the settler at the crab city site.

 

[LKendter]

Not yet, but can't we just demand the resources from a vassal?

Yes, but IIRC a war could start if they refuse.

 

[Belial]

You can demand resources from colonies, but I'm not 100% sure how it works with vassals. Considering they are both vassals, I would assume you could do it both ways. Although it's better to be safe than sorry and I see no real reason not to take them from Joao anyways.

I think the scientist may have been better off as a GA, but printing press will go a long ways as well and it's key for getting us rifles.

Trading now will become significantly more precise. We want a war with Saladin and the Incans so we'll want to have techs to offer one or the other to start one. Since the Incans are our enemy and as well as Saladin's, we should take sides with Saladin and try to promote him to drop some devestation onto the Incans.

Being spiritual means we can change civics at the drop of a hat. We have enough modifiers with the vikings to keep them at pleased if we drop out of monarchy for something more economical while we rebuild. Being in mercantilism would allow representation to offer some science boost to the board.

Free speach may also be a good move depending on how many towns we actually have. I'll give that a look later tonight after class.

 

[LKendter]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/1898/LK136_AD-1575.CivBeyondSwordSave


1525 AD
I agree that having Arabia and the Inca fighting would work well for us.
I don't understand how Washington is up to size 9. We aren't whipping this city enough.
I cancel the spy in our HE city. That city IMHO should build 100% troops.
I cancel the windmill by Washington - we don't need more food in that city.


1530 AD
(IT) Portugal still had some surprises left, and kills some of our swords trying to reach the front.


1535 AD
(IT) With us going war happy, I set research to rifling. Our workers will appreciate lumber mills on the way there to give them something to do.


1540 AD
It costs us 2 bombard units, and a Cataphract but Lisbon is ours. It had to many pikes with to few maces on our side.


1545 AD
I just realized where our UB sucks. Artists require a broadcast tower.
(IT) I decline the mediators offer to get peace with Joao.


1555 AD
(IT) Huayna continues to be come a wonder hog as he completes Versailles.


1560 AD
Our spies cause a revolt in Guimaraes. It is then captured with minimal losses.
I then dial up Joao and accept his capitulation. We also pick up optics, wm and $260.

We get another general that will build another super medic.


=======================

New Updates

Please keep whipping Washington every other turn. If nothing else we can use Buddhist missionaries to open up temples with the hammer bonus, and more spies.
Our military stack is forming near the Incan border, but we need a lot more troops to hit that monster.

All of our workers are sleeping waiting for replaceable parts and something to do.

I can't believe we have a decent economy despite Mercantilism.

Roster
LKendter
Speedster (currently playing)
Kodii (Please update when your computer is back)
Belial (on deck)
Playshogi


Remember 15 peace (including phony wars) / 10 heavy war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Win target: open.

Planned wars - In the far future we turn on Huayna.

 

[Speedster]

Got it.

I have a few questions though.

Did we settle the crab island?

Should we actively try to make Joao friendly (give him free techs, resources etc) now that he is a vassal to us?
My experience is that a friendly vassal is more useful than a furious vassal.

We may find ourselves in a position to win this through the AP (if we get it from Huyana). Joao's votes would count in such a scenario as well.

 

[LKendter]

Did we settle the crab island?

No

Should we actively try to make Joao friendly (give him free techs, resources etc) now that he is a vassal to us?

Yes, I already agree when he offered open borders to help push us that we despite the fact we didn't need that treaty.

 

[Belial]

The cities we captures are economic power houses as well. Market, grocer and banks and we should be ready to roll the Incans. Depending on how fast he researches, which I doubt he'll have rifles anytime soon considering he is going the cultural way (constitution), he should fall fairly fast.

We should also hit his core first with a small army to take the incense city he has on our border. Incense will help vs. the unhappy that will hit us as I think he has statue of zeus as well.

If we're aiming for an AP win, then we should remove Lincoln after we have buddhism spread around in our cities. The time between that and massing a rifle army may be what decides that victory condition or not.

We may also be drawn into the war with Incans siege light again so as mentioned, an abundant of spies should work quite well.

Also, the national epic going in Adrianople (should be close to done by now) with a few priests and getting one of the shrines built will probably be all the income we need for this game.

For a domination win, I don't think we need to take on Saladin, but that should be double-checked and he was the only one (in my set at least) that had comparable military power.

As for crab city, I think the only real reason to settle it is if Sushi will be online for us else that city will take a while, likely never throughout this game, to amount to much.

I also expect Ragnar to head the military tech tree - probably to grenadiers. After rifling, we could probably pickup a few more economic techs.

 

[playshogi]

I recommend that we send a couple workboats and a missionary up there, found the city, then give the island independence, and trade an extra dye for the crab from our newly created vassal.

 

[LKendter]

I recommend that we send a couple workboats and a missionary up there, found the city, then give the island independence, and trade an extra dye for the crab from our newly created vassal.

How do colonies affect the tile count? I am not sure if that island is far away to trip the colony cost rule.

 

[Speedster]

Turns played.

The IHT took more than an hour to digest.

I started by reallocating our espionage points to 50/50 between HC and Saladin instead of 100% towards Joao.
I also noticed that sea tiles yields 3 commerce. A quick check in our newest acquisations shows that Lisbon came with the Colossus.
I mm our cities (mostly the newest ones) to work optimal tiles.
Thessalonica has just started a barracks. I change this to a Jewish monastery for the science boost.
Adrianople has a prophet and an engineer assigned. I change this to three prophets instead.
I make a quick count of our towns and change civics to Free speech instead of bureaucracy. We loose 7 beakers but gain 10 gold in civic upkeep. We also get a very needed boost to culture.

Press enter and:

Turn 2, 1585 AD
Apostolic palace election comes up. Ragnar is now buddhistic, so I vote on him for the relations boost (+2).
I also sell guilds to Joao for 80 gold and relations improvement to cautios.


Turn 3, 1590 AD
HC wins the elections however, he was only one voting on Inca. Right now, I do not think he has enough vote to win a diplomatic victory.


Turn 4, 1595 AD
HC adopts free speech.


Turn 7, 1610 AD
The Portuguese city Braga flips to Inca..


Turn 9, 1620 AD
National epic is concluded in Adrianople.


Turn 10, 1625 AD
HC gets a great artist.
We loose two more seafood at Washington!! I checked the log to see if he got a great artist lately, but couldn't see any notice of such an occurence..


Turn 11, 1630 AD
All our (few) forest now have lumbermills so I put the workers back to sleep.
HC now knows printing press.


I decided to stop here and pass the baton to the next player.

The reason is that we have quite a few important decisions to make.
What do we research next?

The window to attack HC is getting smaller every turn. He may be researching rifling himself right now, or something equally ugly (steel??).

Rifling is due next turn. We may want to swap civics to "draft mode".

There is also a great person due in 4 turns from Adrianople. We need to agree how to use him. My vote lies on the Taositic shrine in Ainu. I have started a bank in Ainu and a Taoism missionary in Nicomedia.

Lincoln?


I apologise for the shortened turn set, but I really felt indecisive regarding our next steps.

The save

 

[Belial]

I think you managed just fine and seeing how the Incans are going towards a culturally victory (they have (or had) no worst enemy) I doubt they will put rifling high on the priority list but instead will look towards constitution. Printing press is needed for that so that is where my guess would lie.

The great person is really up for grabs on what we get. The obvious is to build a shrine if it's a prophet but I think the odds are very wacky on what we can get. If it's a spy, scientist or artist, I would be inclined to start a GA and set the next great person to insure we get a prophet. A merchant can be used to uprade a fair amount of troops into rifles.

Drafting is not a bad idea either but we may or may not need to depending on how we decide to handle this.

I think our next move should be to remove Lincoln. Why? More tiles for domination, easy to do and we get our seafood back. I would also like to stir some trouble between the Incan and Arabians - once that war breaks loose, we will have all the time we need to make any military moves towards the Incans. I would be sure we have enough votes to make sure the war is not to be stopped vs. the Incans by a resolution though.

As for the tech path, if It's not evident, I'm not a huge fan of siege as they seem to be so underpowered in the expansion. However, I do like siege when they have a nice edge over the AI and I suspect Ragnar is teching militarily (will have to check when I do get the save) which means he would go for grenadiers first. Of course, I could be off like Columbus and claim we're in the West Indies while Ragnar techs astronomy, but eh - I try to never let a military man let me down.

Also, as a side note, if we do get a prophet, I will be spamming Ragnar with anything but Buddhist missionaries to try and also sour the relation with Incans.

 

[Belial]

Got it

Report due to be posted on Thursday.

 

[LKendter]

New Updates
I know I am repeating myself, but Washington is too big in pop again. It shouldn't be this large if we are whipping it every other turn.

I am tired of the problems in Washington - I would like to raze the two American cities. Both of these cities are weak, so please don't keep them. I would like to see this happen soon.

Roster
LKendter
Speedster
Kodii (Please update when your computer is back)
Belial (currently playing - already got it)
Playshogi (on deck)


Remember 15 peace (including phony wars) / 10 heavy war turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.

Win target: open.

Planned wars - very short term - Lincoln must die
In the far future we turn on Huayna.

 

[playshogi]

By eliminating Lincoln we allow Inca the possibility to win diplomatic victory. Right now, Lincoln not having buddhism is the only reason it's not on the table. You can't count on Ragnar to vote for himself if diplomatic victory is voted on because I experienced a game where the AI did not vote for itself even though it was on the ballot. (see my game Epic 13 at 1100AD -- http://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthread.php?p=26184#post26184 )

Unfortunately, we can't make a colony on an island with only 1 city. Alternatively, we could make Crab City and gift it to Lincoln, then capture Philly and Atlanta. Right now, we can trade banana to Joao for his crab.

 

[playshogi]

I'd also like to keep Atlanta and Philadelphia. If we gift Lincoln the northern city, and capture his other two, if he agrees to be our vassal we could then liberate them back to him and solve our problems in Washington and keep diplomatic victory off the table. OTOH, maybe we have enough votes to block diplomatic victory, but why gamble?