LK28 - Regent training.

[LKendter]

I will review this within 24 hours.
I am flying tonight, an don't have net access again to Saturday morning.

 

[Tiamat]

I have it and will wait for Lee's review before proceeding.

 

[LKendter]

It was quite risky to wait so much time with all these units in Umtata but I really couldn't make a good offensive to make an efficient push in the Zulus lines

If you need a staging point - wait 1 space OUTSIDE the city. Find and read the RBD12 if you don't believe how bad city flips can be.

ATTACK now! At end of hotrod0823 turns we were way to light for troops. 2 injuried cavalry by a city was to weak.

We have have to many idle troops - I count 6 foot troops, **19** cavalry.
8 to 10 cavalry will take out almost any city with rifleman defenders.
I woke up the cavalry and took out the Zulu in 1410AD!

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City Production - The war will end shortly.
Any city building military such as - Isipezi, Zulu1, Thess, etc - switch to infanstructure.
The priority should be banks - we really need to improve cash flow.
===========================
Overall - Revolution to Republic! Start as soon as the Zulu war ends.
We have enough luxuries and marketplaces to support it.
We have wall street and $15 in the bank.
We want to start building up cash. We want to take advantage of being commercial.
NO more troop upgrades. We need cash.
We are better of building new VET rifleman and disbanding the hoplites (particulary the regular ones) in a city that will benefit from seven shields.
===========================
Workers - The is NO reason to irragate the desert by Herakleia.
When rails arrive - we have *9* squares that will gain FOOD.
If you want to do something by that city - MINE the desert.
With the arrival of rails, you need to think of what that city will gain.
===========================
hotrod0823 -
Juliennew -
Tiamat - Playing
Trickey - on deck
alexander dumas -
10 turns per player

Remember - wait for my commentary before moving - not much of a training day without that.

 

[Tiamat]

LK28

1400 AD (0) - Stop irrigation near Herakleia, start mining instead. Switch Isipezi to Marketplace. Switch Thessalonica to Bank, Switch Herakleia to Bank. Wake Cavalry in Umtata, send half to Ibabanago. Send the res against Bapedi. Capture Bapedi with 1 resistor, start Library. Capture worker outside Umfolozi. Wake Rifleman, and Musketman, send rifleman & 1 musketman to Ibabanago, and 2 musketmen to Bapedi.

I - India & England sign a Military Alliance against Babylon. India declares war on Babylon. Babylon is now fighting everyone else on their continent. Babylon loses Eridu to England.

1405 AD (1) - Athens completes Cavalry, starts Rifleman. Resistance in Bapedi ends. Umtata expands. Ngome is captured with 2 resistors, starts Library. Rhodes switched to Harbor. Ibabanago captured with 1 resistor, starts Library. Umfolozi captured with 2 resistors, starts Library. Nobody will trade Medicine or Communism. China is the only one behind us in tech.

I - Babylon loses Nippur to Germany.

1410 AD (2) - Resistance in Umfolozi & Ibabanago ends, 1 resistor quelled in Ngome. Thermopylae switched to Harbor. Corinth switched to Colosseum. Delphi switched to Colosseum. Pharsalos switched to Harbor. MM Mpondo to grow in 9 instead of 33. Eretria switched to Colosseum. Troy switched to Courthouse. Swazi captured with 1 resistor, starts Library. Halicarnassus founded, starts Library.

I - Zulu counterattack one of our Cavalry with a Longbowman and lose. We are down to to 1 hp.

1415 AD (3) - Mycenae completes Rifleman, starts Bank. Resistance ends in Swazi. Marathon completes Aqueduct, starts Bank. Intombe captured with 1 worker, starts Library. Zulu's are defeated. [dance] Trade Dyes to India for WM, 130G, 11gpt. Sign Peace Treaty with Germany for Peace Treaty, WM, & Nippur. Nippur starts Library.

I - England wants to cancel Wine for Incense deal, re-negotiate for Incense, WM, & 185G (wanted 260G).

1420 AD (4) - Sparta completes Cavalry, starts Galleon. Resistance in Ngome ends. Argos completes Rifleman, starts Cathedral. Lots of WLTKD celebrations. People offer to expand our Palace and give us a new lawn and 2 new levels. Drop Science to 10%, still get Steam Power in 1 and +285G. Will revolt after Steam Power is learned.

1425 AD (5) - Steam Power discovered, switch research to Industrialization., Athens completes Rifleman, starts Rifleman. Pharsalos completes Harbor, starts Rifleman.We are told our people want to build the Iron Works . Rhodes completes Harbor, starts Courthouse. Thessalonica switched to Iron Works. Our citizens revolt, should be in control in 5 turns. goodjob: we got a short Anarchy period!) Checked all cities to ensure we won't go into civil disorder. Sending workers to connect source of coal near Thessalonica, we have a source connected near Mpondo. Egypt doesn't have coal! Trade Nationalism to China for Medicine, WM, & 1G (all they had). Wanted to trade Steam Power around, but everybody except China has it.

I - Egypt wants to renegotiate Ivory deal,got it for Dyes, WM, & 105G (she asked for 180G).

1430 AD (6) - Moving & working. Multiple WLKTD celebrations end.

I - Babylon loses Kish & Ur to India.

1435 AD (7) - Moving & working. Trade Dyes to China for WM, 6gpt, & 20G. All but China has Sanitation & they all want 591G (all of ours), 14gpt, & WM for it. I will wait.

I - Babylon loses Uruk to England.

1440 AD (8) - Moving & working.

I - Babylon re-takes Ur from India.

1445 AD (9) - Moving & working. Sanitation still too expensive.

I - Babylon loses Ur & Akkad to Germany.

1450 AD (10) - The Greek Democracy is created. After setting Science to 50%, Lux. to 10%, we get Indust. in 7 with +108gpt. MUCH better than +40gpt in Monarchy. Pharsalos switched to Colosseum. Moving & working.

Summary: The Rifleman in Sparta is waiting to be sent to Nippur when the Galleon is built. I didn't do any Diplomacy on this turn, so the next person should check. Also, Babylon is down to 6 cities and is probably going to be wiped out soon. We miht want to think about taking Nineveh, which had the Lighthouse/Magellan's in it. This would give us the extra naval movement. Also, maybe see about getting Ashur for the Spices/Coal.

Here is the save game:

LK28 1450 AD

 

[LKendter]

1450 AD (10) - The Greek Democracy is created.

I had suggested Republic, not Democracy. Democracy is a horrid goverment in Civ3.
The only time I form a democracy is with Religous civs.
Democracy is so fragile in war time, that I avoid it.
This choice makes a domination / conquest game very difficult.
Republic can hold for a very long time - take a look at LK26 and how long we have be fighting under Republic.

Thessalonica switched to Iron Works.

Never wait on Iron Works - if the resource expires, you lose you chance for it.
This is a great wonder to have just 1 city from the fp location.

===========================
City Production - BUILD MORE WORKERS.
We gained a lot of cities from the Zulu, and rails are available.
We have a pathetic 16 workers. We should have twice that number at minimum.

===========================
Workers - Rule #8 - Once rails are available, they should be the #1 priority.

Just 2 workers to clear jungle? We should commit at least 4 to 5 workers to make it worth our bother.
Of course, with rails available, we shouldn't be doing it are all.

The single biggest human advantage is a rail-net. At that point it is almost impossible to lose
One rails are availble, almost 100% of your effort should be a thin rail-net to connect the cities.
At that point, the game is an guarenteed win (except at Diety).

My suggested plan.
1) Before moving, cancel all workers with red boxes, and move them along the red arrows.
2) The blue box units should finishes there tasks, and then start on railroads.
3) ONLY road Green box - I agree, get a spare coal on line.
4) White box, build JUST a road.
5) White box, and blue box workers should move to grey box as a starting point.
6) Put every worker into a single square (grey box), then work down the grey line.
7) Green box units should follow yellow line, and start building a rail line there.

===========================

hotrod0823 -
Juliennew -
Tiamat -
Trickey - Playing
alexander dumas - on deck
10 turns per player

Remember - wait for my commentary before moving - not much of a training day without that.

 

[Trickey]

got it, illl have it up tonight.

 

[hotrod0823]

Lee is there a pic missing. I don't see a map with the worker colors?

Hotrod

 

[LKendter]

You should see a pic right after the line
"At that point, the game is an guarenteed win (except at Diety)."

 

[hotrod0823]

It is there now. Could be my computer my browser acts funny sometimes.

Thanks

Hotrod

 

[Trickey]

I am currently playing now, sorry for the hold up, but i dont think ill be able to play the last 3-4 turns for another 5 hours or so.

 

[Trickey]

Lk 28, Regent training.

Preturn, do all that mumbo jombo with our workers that Lee said to do.

1. China and Bablyon sing a peace treaty. Wltk in Athens. Ulundi builds library, begins on Marketplace. Thermoplyae, harbour-colluseum. Kosnoss, Riffleman-Bank. Mpondo, Library- Marketplace. Erectria, Colosseum- Rifleman. Troy, Courthouse-Bank. Egypt is building the Universal sufferage. Wltk in Herakliea.

2.Hoblone, temple-marketplace.

3. WE lose our suplly of Gems! Elizabeth "has no interest of cotinuing our deal" . I ask her what she want for the gems, she say world map and 220 gold. I take it down to 150 gold, and make then deal. She is 3 techs ahead of us, time to start shopping! Germany and India sing a mpp. Geeze, all the civ want an arm and a leg for communism, but old gnahdi will give me sanitation for 600 gold flat, fine.

4. Athens, riffleman-hospital. Sparta, galleon-hospital. Delphi, colosseum-hospital.

5. China and England sing a Mpp. Rhodes, courthouse-hospital. Esphesus, Aquaduct- riffleman. Micromanage our science rate

6. We learn industrialization. Begin research on the coperation. Cornith, rifleman-hospital. Hmmmm, if i put our science rate down 10%, we will raise our income from 119 to 218, but only loose 1 yurn of research, so i do it.

7. Thessalonica, iron works- hospital. Eretria, riffleman-hospital.

8. The germans destroy the Babylonians.

9. THE EGYPTIANS DECLARE WAR ON US, CAPTURING LIKE 4 OF OUR WORKERS, AND DESTROYNIG 2 FORTIFIED RIFLES. I try to launch a bit of an offensive with the troops we have, it was pretty succesful,destroying most of the attacking forces.

10 INDIA AND EGYPT SING A MILTARY ALLIANCE AGAINST US!! GER,ANY AND EGYPT SIGN A TRADE EMBARGO AGAINST US. Egypt captures tugela. I give Germany Industrailization for an alliance vs Egypt. Mostly just so Egypt wont get them agaisnt us. Give a world map and 320 gold to england for an alliance vs Egypt. We give Mao insence for him to declrare war on India. I do a bunch of upgrading of our HOPLITES to Rifllman. Most cities are changed to Cavalry, or Riffleman.

 

[LKendter]

We are in the worst possible situation: war under democracry.
In order to improve our odds of avoiding a goverment collapse:
Dyes, Incense, $15/turn to Germany for Spices - An extra luxury will make a big difference.

===========================

1. ... Egypt is building the Universal sufferage.
6. We learn industrialization.

WTH? MAJOR This occurred turn 1. It is now turn 10.
We gave Thebes a 10 turn lead on one of the most critical wonders in the game.
It should have only been 6. Being a Democracy, suffrage is CRITICAL!
I try to figure out if we still have a chance.

The above is Egypt optimized for shields.
Yellow squares are 2 shields.
The iron hill is 4 shields.
Worst case is 220 shields already toward the wonder.
I check the Civlopedia - 800 shields for suffrage.
Estimate 26 turns for suffrage, probably a bit less with growth, for Egypt.
Nobody else is building it, so only one source of competition.

OK - switch Thess (our killer output city) to factory with 4 turns to complete.
Egypt gets 4 more turns, so up to 308 shields ~22 turns to complete.
Thess will output ~66 shields after factory, 12 turns to complete.
Switch Thess to factory, then US to get us the single most critical wonder for fighting wars

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Factories are far more important then hospitals and almost anything else.
Factories will let up pump out troops to fight the war better.
Several cities should switch to factories - the following are good possible choices.
Therm, Athens, Marathon, Cornith, Erertia, Sparta, Pharsalos, Mycenae, Herak

19 turns for 1 cavalry in Ulundi?
It is 50% corrupt, switch to courthouse.
Umtata is > 50% corrupt, switch to courthouse.
===========================
I would change Delphi to cavalry in case of a landing near our capital.

We need troops at the front.
Wake some of the units down by Athens.
Find some troops to upgrade.

We have problems by Hlobane.

Black box = exposed workers to the red horseman - we can't afford to lose any more workers!
Purple cavalry has just 1 hp left, kill it now!
This is perfect area to leader fishing.
Wake to elite cavarly from Mpondo and kill those units.

Intombe is a front line city, but its best defender is cavalry????????
Wake up rifleman to move toward the city.
Wake up the cavalry and kill the 2 units by the city.
We have 3 elites that can attack - if we get a leader - build an army!

Why do we have a cavalry defending a mountain?
Cavalry are OFFENSIVE troops.

A cavarly from Abydos could attack and steal to workers going along the yellow line.
DURING WAR - NEVER have unprotected workers in range of enemy units.
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When rails first become available, their is *TWO* key goals.
1) Military rail-net (a single wide piece of track connecting cities)
2) Improve a city going for a critical wonder.
Everything else is lower priority.

All of the blue line squares were NOT needed at the current time.
The red x was a bad choice. Mountain are VERY expensive to rail, and should wait to last except for a wonder building city.
Yellow lines are the next tiles to be developed - this completes the railnet in this area.
White X grassland is quick, and add a shield to our best wonder city.
Grey X is a perfect spot - improves rail-net and our wonder building city.

===========================
The below is the continued rail-net.

This is a path of least resitance rail-net to connect more cities.
Only 1 hill and 1 forest is connected during this segment.

===========================
Science Choice - Corporation????????
We are at the ToE push stage.
The science choice is Electricity (personally I would "waste" the time researching corp, switch immediate)
Scien Method
Build ToE in killer shield city of Thess.
Atomic Theory
Electronics
Athens is our best city - on a river - it should try for at least a couple turns of prebuild for Hoover.
Hoover is the single most powerful wonder in the game.

===========================

hotrod0823 - on deck
Juliennew -
Tiamat -
Trickey -
alexander dumas - Playing
10 turns per player

Remember - wait for my commentary before moving - not much of a training day without that.

 

[Trickey]

jeeeze, i guess i was a little stupid yesterday, sorry. (it will make it interesting for the next player )

 

[alexander dumas]

Ok, I got back last night and took a quick look at some posts. I will take some time to get familiarized with what seems like a lot of changes in the past few turns. I will download and start the game tonight, but there is a lot of micro that can be done, so we'll see how far I get.

I have a new found respect for the military. I played paintball this past weekend and found out that if I was ever in real combat I'd be dead in a few minutes. A dozen or so welts all over me attest to that. We played a private game with few rules on a small course, so some of the bruises are several inches across.

 

[alexander dumas]

Have we had our Golden Age yet?

 

[LKendter]

I don't remember seeing a recent golden age - so forget it from the Zulu war.

Check what wonders were built.
We really haven't had much luck there.
We may be running out of commercial / scientific wonders to build and need a victorious Hoplite.

 

[LKendter]

hotrod0823 - on deck
Juliennew -
Tiamat -
Trickey -
alexander dumas - Playing (OVERDUE)
10 turns per player

 

[alexander dumas]

Turn 0: Make the changes suggested by LK, including science switch. Don't trade with Germany because they will probably get cut off for trade once they declare war w/China. No leaders yet. 0 for 3. Switched prod in several core cities.

Turn 1: We lose four cavs to attackers. I couldn't stop that. Germany fights China, England fights Germany, India fights England. World War! Five cities revolt because of loss of lux b/w turns. I checked last turn too. We get a leader!!!! He forms an army. I trade for two lux with Germany (must've built a harbor), and China. Germany gets a gpt deal, china a lump sum.

Turn 2: We get a Golden Age!!! Our hoplite was victorious. Lux goes up to 20%, electricity in two turns. We should have no problem with Wonders now. I'm railing north to take the two Egyptian cities, one with iron, which Germany needs.

Turn 3: I abandon Nippur so that we hopefully won't get into a war with Germany by way of India. I rush some culture on the borders with Egypt. Our Cav army is full of Vets. Our northern railroad is done for now.

Turn 4: We take Athribis. Our army was victorious. Here comes Heroic and Military Academy! Athens prebuilds for ToE.

Turn 5: Consolidate Athribis. Micro Thess to get Suffrage in Eight total turns.

Turn 6: Some more fighting with Egypt. I think my choice to Trade with Germany while there is still a chance of a flip in Athribis was a mistake. I'm worried about that town. We should be able to take it back at any time though if it flips. Lux at 30%

Turn 7: War weariness is getting terrible. 66% of unhappiness. I leader fish and don't get anything. 2 elite cavs die to a veteran egypt cav. We capture a couple of workers and sign a peace treaty. Yay! I disbanded Athribis and founded Pergamon. Lux to 10%.

Turn 8: A bunch of factories are now done. Switching to hospitals. Culture and courthouses up north. Athens completes ToE in Seven turns. Working to get Replaceable Parts in four, then suggest switch to zero. That way we get fast workers and money to upgrade rifleman. Peace with India. Trade two lux for 18gpt. I traded them more for the attitude than the money. We have taken a rep hit because of our alliance with Germany against Egypt. I think a bad rep is better than the war weariness and a potential revolt during a golden age, especially with our wonder races.Corinth starts Heroic Epic.

Turn 9: Not much. More rail.

Turn 10: Same as 9, except Bapedi rioted. I missed that.


Overall I see some rushes with our extra money after Replaceable. Thess should prebuild for Hoover with military academy. There are a couple of workers near the border of Egypt. I forgot them there. We should look for a worker farm city to rail everything. We should be generous with diplomacy to help with the rep hit. Remember to set research to zero after Replaceable and select Atomic Theory, then Electronics. Our histograph has jumped nicely.




Oh, by the way, check the times. I'm not overdue.

 

[LKendter]

I will review within 12 hours.

On the question of ovedue, I just noticed there were no official posted times. The expected times 24 hours for got it, 48 hours total from my last review.

 

[hotrod0823]

As far as my next turn, I was hoping Lee had time to review tonight but not yet.

Tomorrow I will not be able to play but if you all wouldn't mind I could play and post on Saturday. One sure way to get my civ disk broken is playing on my 5 year anniversary. If Sat. is too late skip. Also, the attachment has crashed my internet twice I will not be able to grab the game anyway unless it is uploaded to the server .

Hotrod