LK38 - PTW, Deity Challenge

Hey all, I'm back. Sorry for having to be skipped with no post. Always better to skip than to wait (IMO), after 24 hours, good job managing the game LK! This SG has a really good pace. I had a buisy RL over the holiday weekend and still don't have a service provider at home, I should get one hooked up this week.

Well played to all during my absence. Our position is much more secure on all fronts. I'm not too worried about the new Mongol/former German lands - they will be quite corrupt and mostly useless for the Mongols anyway (unless they somehow build a FP over there and force me to eat my words).

Put me back in after Speaker.
 
OK Speaker, I've got it. I may not get to play tonight though, I've got an out of town meeting to attend tomorrow.
 
Is the 24 got it/48 post it rule intended to oscillate the game between two people? :)

Just a suggestion -- how about if Lee plays a turn and then we re-assess Gothmog's and/or Speaker's availability for the next turn(s)?
 
LKendter
Reagan
Sirian
Gothmog (currently playing?)
Speaker (on deck?)

==========================

Nothing kills a game faster then lack of anything happening. Sirian played Jan 19, and it is now Jan 22. We need to get this game back on track.

@Gothmog
If you can't play tonight - please post and we will try again for speaker to play tonight.
I won't keep delaying the game with your can't play Jan 23 comment, as that means 5 days between moves which I won't accept.

@Speaker
When will you be able to play next? Please post an eta for your next possible round.


@All - If neither of the above players can play by soon, I will take the game and play and continue with the normal roster of Reagan after me skipping both. If you can only play a partial turn during the night (Mongol war), then post a partial status.

==================================

I realize that I am coming off as a bit of a hard-ass, but I have finished 35 games in the LK series. That single biggest thing is to keep the players interested, and moves happening - discussions of a key event wanting help - partial turn status (especially late wm games), etc does that.

I almost had a couple of games end due to player turnover, and game inactivity increases that risk.
 
reagan, I like your sugestion. I don't want to slow this game down by any means. I could have played last night, but tonight is probably a no go. Even if it means skipping my turn, it's fine by me. LK is the man in this one, what he says goes.

edit: whoohoo, simulpost! As I say above, I can't be sure of tonight. IMO, do a skip - Speaker and I can jump in next round. Pace is very important. I could play thursday night.
 
OK - Gothmog votes for me to play tonight, and keep the game going.

Any comments from speaker? I won't start playing for ~10 hours.
 
It- Nothing to do. Check around and figure out where we stand diplomatically.

Early- Russia and Persia sign an alliance against Korea. The parade of Persian galleons going toward Korea is most impressive. Sevastopol builds walls and starts courthouse. Cadiz builds courthouse and starts Rifleman. Palace expands. Draft Rifleman from Cirta and from Hippo. Carthage builds Factory and starts Coal Plant. Manp'o falls to Persia. Mongols shuffle some troops around but nothing happens. Palace expands again. Persia completes Universal Suffrage. I trade Printing Press to Russia for 65 gold. Every little bit will help us get Electricity. Leptis Magna requires a tax collector to keep the peace.

Middle- Sabratha builds Factory and starts Coal Plant. Leptis Minor requires a tax collector to keep the peace. Theveste mm to build factory in 2, not 3. Germany and Russia sign peace. Leptis Magna finishes Factory and starts stock exchange. Cirta finishes and starts Bank. Still no trade available for Electricity. Korea takes back Manp'o. Persia extorts an extra 4gpt for Ivory. The Vikings extort an extra 6gpt for Incense. Carthage finishes Coal Plant and starts Stock Exchange. Intelligence Agency can be built in 6 turns, and I do not think we will get economics by then. Utica builds Factory and starts Stock Exchange. Theveste builds Factory and starts Bank. Hamdrumetum builds Factory and starts Rifleman. I renegotiate our Gems (plus 7gpt) for Dyes deal with the Mongols, who now only require 32 gold total. We are only making 29 gpt. Persia is making over 600gpt and no one else has much of any cashflow to speak of. Hippo builds Factory and starts Stock Exchange. Sabratha builds Coal Plant and starts Stock Exchange. Palace expands yet again. Cadiz builds Rifleman and starts Marketplace. Rifleman shuffled to Cirta. Persians start ToE in 870AD in Pasargadae, which is a very hilly and mountainous city of size 12. We still do not have enough money to buy Electricity. The imminent Stock Exchanges should help a good deal, but will it be too late? Theveste requires a tax collector to keep the peace, as does Nora.

Late- Germany cancels our RoP for 7gpt deal. Carthage Builds Stock Exchange and starts Rifleman. Still cannot afford any technologies. Gandhi has developed Sanitation, but unfortunately, we cannot afford it at 2nd prices. That would have been a great Brokerage opportunity. The 127gpt deal to Germany is really hurting. Mongols are now at peace with Germany. Sabratha builds Stock Exchange and starts Palace, due in 10 turns (started in 900AD). Paegam finishes temple and starts aqueduct. Cirta builds Bank and starts Rifleman. Persia has now Sanitation, as do the Vikings, even though they have no income and nothing to trade.

Conclusion- With the Mongols not appearing to be threatening, I took a calculated risk in pushing Stock Exchanges in our core because we were/are facing severe cash problems. We are now at 90gpt with 559 saved, and can buy Sanitation for 43gpt and the 559, but I held off because we obviously have bigger fish to fry, and the brokerage opportunity is gone. Carthage and Sabratha both have Stock Exchanges finished, while Utica and Leptis Magna finish theirs in 1 and 2 turns. We have 6 more turns of payments of 127 gold to Germany and 8 more turns of 122 gold to the Vikings. At 72spt, Sabratha will finish ToE (at 600 shields) in 9 turns, with the Palace placeholder lasting for 10 turns. It will be close to get ToE, but I don't know if it will be possible, seeing how strong of a production city Parsagadae is (I did not check how long it would take to finish ToE because it cost 176 gold and our money is too important to throw away right now). If it has a factory and coal plant, forget it. Carthage finishes a Rifleman next turn, but can be changed to Intelligence Agency (finished in 5) if the next player thinks that Electronics will be acquired in 5 turns. Good Luck to the next player. The next 10 turns will be interesting. If we can somehow pull off ToE, I think the game is ours easily. If not, I think we should push Universities everywhere and try to do our own research to get the UN. Space is probably a possibility too as we have several cities that are capable of building the parts.

LK38, 900AD
 
Don't forget we can intentionally slow down the palace a turn or 2 if needed.

I count 2 exchanges built, and 2 i/p - do we have a fifth for wall street?

================================

LKendter (on deck)
Reagan
Sirian
Gothmog (currently playing- IF can play quickly)
Speaker (already played)

Remember, 10 turns per round from now on - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
 
Hey all, meeting delayed until next week so I'll be home tonight and can play ten. 'I got it'. I'll certainly post in the morning.

Looks like you did what you could on your turns Speaker, well done. I'll try my best to get ToE and Hoover, but no promises. :)
I'll also look into our WallStreet possibilities.
 
The good and the bad, no ugly.

Preturn: Carthage is producing rifles with a 74 spt output? I don't think so so I swap it to the IA (due in 6). I MM Cirta to increase shield output, with one more RR they will be up above 40 spt and a good spot to build Rifles. Otherwise things look good.

IT: Germany declares war on Persia? Good thing we aren't sending them any goods (just cash). We build another Stock Market and get the WallStreet advice. Xeres tries to plant a spy but we capture him/her. No doubt Xeres will try again!

We can afford Electricity from india now and can still broker for Sanitation so I pull the trigger. 770+115 gpt to India gets Electricity and Electricity goes to Germany for Sanatation +23 gtp (we may never see most of this but oh well). India has RP and SM. I start a min sci gambit towards communism (scientist) as we have lots of tech to buy before we'll get to that one and Police Stations can be useful.

IT after 930 AD Persia builds ToE, so we had no chance there. Persia is running away with Tech and something happens we will have a hard time getting the UN. We could really use a world war. I swap Sabratha to WallStreet.

IT - post 940 AD the Vikes and Persia sign MA vs. Korea. Persia wants a MPP, so I renew our RoP for 3gpt. Yes! :cool: the mongols declare war on Persia.
[dance] :band: [dance]

after 950 AD Korea and Persia come to peace, India and Persia MA vs. Germany, the Vikes and Persia MA vs. the Mongols (I am guessing Persia is spreading around the Techs - they did just break a MA with the Vikes vs. Korea). Vikes and India come to peace.

I sell Chiv to Russia for 120 gold just to be nice. Persia cities in the old german part of our continent are gone, and they are losing to the Mongols in the north too. Global Warming turns a jungle to a grassland near one of our cities!

Infantry start to show up in numbers and all offensives slow. The monglos do Raze Kiev (a Persian city), so I build a settler and move some troops to save our spot. We need RP so I trade Iron, SP, WM, Wine (India no longer wants ours), Horses, and 140gpt to Germany for it (we may get out of some of this gpt as they only have 1 city left - sound familiar?). Then RP+3gpt to Korea for SM+Spices. We have rubber :yeah: + 1 extra. Both are already hooked up, everyone else already has it except Germany and Korea. Persia doesn't know AT (they do know Refining and Steel - maybe more on that path too) so hoover may yet be a possibility.

India and Persia sign an MPP, Russia and India sign an MPP. Mongols and India MA vs. Germany? Then India declares war on the Mongols, and so do the Russians. I start another settler as there may be more poaching possibilites in former Russian holdings. Also when a path opens up to former German lands (due to Razing of Russian and Indian cities standing in our way at the moment). This has all been very good for us, it has slowed the tech pace and has already given us another city - with more to come. Our economy is strong and we almost have 1000 in the bank.

here's the save, take it LK!
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/lk38-1000ad.zip
 
ToE lost, but Hoover not yet gone. Perhaps some tech steal attempts are in our future. If we can line everyone up vs Persia... they won't be able to target us, they will suffer mightily without any imports, and Persia tends to avoid communism at all costs, making them an easier target for espionage. (They usually go Monarchy).

I think the min sci is a lost cause. Not sure how to get to Electronics before Persia, but IF they mobilize they won't be able to build it! So the wars are a good thing. Still, it's going to be dicey. However, even if we don't get the UN, all is not lost. None of these AI's have enough friends to win a vote. That means we have time, time either to catch up on tech or to start winning with military. This could be a close game. Should be a fun finish. :)


- Sirian
 
I think we are in fine shape, now that we have infantry (although none actually in the field yet) and a railnet we can defend ourselves in the short run. Only a declaration by the Mongols soonish is of any worry to me at the moment.

About tech steals, does anyone know for sure who takes the rep hit if someone declares war over a spy? I think it's still the civ who declares, but I am not positive.

I am not sure how we get to Electronics before Persia either but if we can save up enough cash and have a well timed prebuild we could follow them to it (steal or buy) and still get Hoover.

What do you mean by lost cause? Do you think we will buy or trade for communism in the next 40 turns (well 33 or so now), or do you mean we will be starting our own research before then and needing to switch paths? I did consider shutting it off after we got the Spices from Korea as we no longer needed specialists, but it still seemed worth it to me. We do have lots of other techs we will need first (Mot Trans not least among them).
 
Two quick thoughts:

- Communism research -- If we are almost 25% of the way to researching Communism on min science, is there a reason not to continue it? We won't need it in the next 30 turns, nor are we likely to trade for it because the AI values it pretty highly. If it only costs a buck or two per turn to research it with a scientist in a corrupted city, why not keep going?

- German per turn deals -- I have seen some other threads in the Strategy and Gen. Discussions forums where other players have been tagged with a big reputation hit as a result of making a per-turn deal with a dying civ and not being able to perform the deal after the civ (in our case, Germany) is finally eliminated. Are we not, therefore, making a risky move by making per-turn tech purchases from Germany?
 
The reputation hit involves hard goods outgoing. Gold Per Turn payments will not cause this. I don't know the sense of it either way, just reporting what happens.

As for the lone scientist, go ahead. Run one out of one of those corrupt cities I took from Russia, though, not any cities of actual importance.

- Sirian
 
Actually, there is one GPT scenario that really screws you.

In GOTM #14 I signed a GPT alliance with the Zulu to try for help, and when Persia was about to capture some cities I signed a panic peace treaty.

NO ONE except Persia would take GPT for as much of the game as I did complete - 100+ turns since broken alliance.
 
Thanks for the clarification about the "dying civ rep hit" issue. It is somewhat akin to making large per-turn deals with the AI when it is obvious the civ is hell-bent to make a sneak attack in a turn or two.

Until now, I have been loathe to risk the rep hit by making a per-turn cash deal with a dying civ. This just adds another arrow to my quiver of strategy options for future games!

By the way, does anyone out there consider the sneak attack deal an exploit? Except in some unusual circumstances, a human would rarely, if ever, accept large per-turn payments a turn or two before declaring war. The AI will often gladly do so and then will continue with its war plans, thus effectively giving the human free tech(s). This seems to creep pretty close to the edge of exploiting the AI.
 
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