LK47 - Open SG - 1.21 patch, emperor, 2CC conquest, China

Don't worry guys it isn't anyone's fault. We have done pretty good so far taking out 3 of 5 civs. These last two will be two hard nuts to crack, but I'm sure with our collective might we will destroy them. This isn't an I got it as I am at work, but if it is available later tonight I will grab it.

Let us not give up now. I think if we can wait out our deal with Arabia. Declare on them and drag greece into it. Do some pillaging to hamper Arabia's growth/expansion we might be able to pull this out. I really do feel we need to do something against Arabs before they become too much to handle and at this stage I don't think we can do it alone either. I think we will need our enemies to the south to give a helping hand or musket. :)
 
I think T-hawk took Athens in the first war. I took a size 12 city on the northern Pennisula and a smaller city that once stood where athens used to be.

It is definitely tough but interesting none the less. We have managed to take out 3 civs already.
 
The key is 3 dead civs.

Greece took a lot of hurt with losing all those wonders in the capital.

We have keep up with the tech pace despite to cities, though I never expected this game to go to the IA.

Can we get a key wonder city for Arabia razed?

Next person gets a quick ten turns of rebuilding some troops.
 
I'm surprised you guys thought it would be so easy. I knew it would take until at least the industrial age. The key to winning militarily with a small number of cities is artillery, which we don't get until the industrial age.

We don't seem to have learned anything from Zwingli's game. We're playing this more like an AW game than a 2CC Conquest. We need to use military alliances. It's too bad the 2 civ's remaining are on opposite sides of us, that was very bad planning. We should have cleared away one side and then we could use one civ as a buffer between us and the other civ.

We definitely don't want to get into a situation where everyone is at peace like we are now. We can't afford for the tech pace to move quickly.

We need bombard units badly. We have such limited production we can't afford to lose a lot of units. Even if it negates the 3 movement of the riders we should be using riders and cannons in tandem. Use the riders for pillaging.

I'd declare war on Greece again and sign an MA with Arabia against them. Arabia will probably make short work of them and then we can figure out how to take out Arabia. Did you disable domination victories in this game? I'm afraid Arabia will get domination. I was afraid of that when I first saw the game. In Zwingli's game it was a large map and the AI's won't build enough cities to hit domination, but I know the AI's will on a tiny map and I'm not sure about a small map. It's looking awfully close right now. Hopefully Arabia will raze the Greek cities and not capture them.
 
Domination is enbaled.

I agree we need to get Greece and Arabia fighting.
 
I could've brought Arabia in and killed our treasury but was concerned about saving gold to buy MT and didn't expect the war with Greece to last 20 turns.
 
Shillen, you bring up a lot of good points. The only thing I disagree with is going to war with Greece first. I think it should be the other way around. I think we should have two David's vs. a goliath and not be the lone David. I don't think Arabia would raze all of the Greek cities and could get a domination victory and if we allowed them to dominate the Greeks then it would be pretty much over because I don't honestly think we could take them on our own.

I think a war versus Arabia with Greece at our side would be best. Even if we can't take many cities we can try to cripple their infrastructure. We have fast moving riders so hopefully we can do it.

I may be wrong and Greece maybe the ones to take out, but I'd like my chances more if we can slow Arabia's progress and decimate them slowly then take on an already weakened Greece. However, a while back I did think it was best to take out Greece...they were the premier force at the time and were the only ones to our south, but now it is a whole other ball of wax.
 
The other problem is how are we going to get artillery? Are we going to be able to buy our way up the tech tree from Arabia? I just don't see how we could possibly take out Arabia without artillery stacks. The first turn after declaring war on them will be the worst. They will send huge stacks of units at us, which we'll have to bomb down and kill off.

edit: @Despot - Declaring war on Arabia right now would be pure suicide. There's no buffer between them and us. They will send all their units at us and Greece will do almost nothing. I agree there's the danger of domination but that's not something I can see us stopping. It's the nature of this type of game. The last civ alive is going to grab as much territory as he wants. If he wins by domination then I guess we learned you can't do this concept on a smaller map.
 
Well I have played a 2CC conquest solo (standard map) before and looking at Zwingli's game seem to confirm what I had : it is extremely hard to win those early and they usually go to Modern Age, just because it's a long wear and tear.
Two cities do not have the shield power to mass produce units and blitz an opponent, well it can do it but that will help the biggest AI (like in our case Arabia) and then you need to wait to take out that big power that is left...
You have to be very lucky to finish a 2CC conquest in the Middle Ages, IMHO.

EDIT : OK I typed this before I saw Shillen's first comments. I fully agree with him of course.
 
Shillen/Skyfish, I defintely see your points, but if it is only us and Arabia I just don't see how we could win. We don't have the production power to compete with them and we are bound to fall way behind in tech.
 
Aren't we one tech away from cavalry? If we can get those and upgrade whatever Riders we have left before Arabia gets riflemen, we can deal quite some damage again. Leave Greece alone; they aren't going to win the game.

And if nothing else, as long as we can somehow scheme our way to Replaceable Parts, artillery always dominates the AIs. (Of course I said that in LK44 which didn't work out, but this is a different situation.) Getting factories, power plants, and hospitals built in both cities will easily get them to a cavalry or artillery every turn. 20 turns of that is 40 artillery, which I guarantee will rip apart any enemy city.

Do we have any rules against paying out large sums of resources/gpt for techs and then declaring war? It's evil and ruins our reputation, but isn't on the exploit lists.

Also - I would suggest starting a 40-turn research on Electricity right now. That'll get us that tech towards artillery for free, while we try buying into Industrialization and maybe up to Sanitation. Pulling some two-fer tech deals with Greece would be great.
 
Although you don't have any civ between China and Arabia, your cities control a strategic chokepoint between Arabia and Greece. Once the peace agreement with Greece ends, you can bring Arabia into alliance against Greece, but slow down their advance (by not granting them a ROP/running interference on their units) so that they can't decisively defeat the Greeks. This will burn up Arabia's production and units, and send them into a less efficient government. Of course you will still want to honor your alliance by attacking a few Greek units, and should continue to renew the alliance until Greece is (gradually) destroyed.

In the meantime perhaps you should consider selling some slaves to Greece (if you have more than about 12) in order to strengthen them and gain some much needed gold/tech. In any other situation it is much better to be purchasing slaves that selling them, but with only 2 cities and the industrious trait there are only so many workers you need. 10 spare slaves could get you 1000g or 50gpt which is quite significant for a small civ (this is based on the enhanced worker cost for the non-PTW GOTM). Also, since this is a small map, you might consider attempting some research of your own if you can get out of debt (maybe with some slaving), especially if the other civs fall into Commi/Monarchy. Getting Sanitation and size 20 cities with huge production, commerce, and metropolis defense would be quite helpful when it comes down to China vs. Arabia.

This is just based on the posted maps and turn reports, so these suggestions might totally off track for the current situation :).
 
Preturn 1050 AD -
Emperor Despot takes the thrown of the 2 city Chinese dynasty. I have a look around our glorious lands and see the slowly declining Greeks to our south. They have once tasted our steal shall they taste it again?!?! Not so fast, to our north lies the infidel that in Carthage's absence has swallowed up a vast amount of real estate. I have a talk with our military advisor and he tells me that the Arabs could easily take on either us or the Greeks in a sustained war, but they might not be able to get the bulk of their troops to our sacred lands since they lack a modern rail system! Hmmm so much to think about so many what if's. All I know is we need to eradicate both these nations and the sooner the better. If we get rid of the decaying Greeks then we are left alone with the big pink machine...only time will tell which course Emperor Despot will take since we currently have trade deals with both nations.

IBT -
What is this...the no good Abu is demanding tribute!!! Normally I would give in to such demands, but this might be the ticket we need. I will not give into Abu's wishes!! He declares war on us like I knew he would. :) They also overrun our saltpeter colony, but not to worry Emperor Despot has a devious plan to force Abu into submission.

Abu moves 7 Ansar Warriors and 1 MDI into sight.

Turn 1 130 BC -
We dispatch our mighty riders to meet these foreign invaders!

Cannon in Beijin shaves one HP off of an Ansar

4/4 Rider vs. 3/4 Ansar we win without a scratch.
5/5 Rider vs. 3/3 Ansar wins without a scratch. :)
4/4 Rider vs. 3/3 Ansar wins going 2/4.
4/4 Rider vs. 3/3 Ansar wins and promotes going 3/5.
4/4 Rider vs. 3/3 Ansar we lose and Ansar promotes to 4/4.
4/4 Rider vs. 4/4 Ansar we win and promote to 4/5.
4/4 Rider vs. 3/3 Ansar we win going 2/4.
4/4 Rider vs. 3/3 Ansar we win going 3/4.
4/4 Rider vs. 3/3 MDI we win going 2/4.

Sign alliance with Greeks for WM, 23 gpt, 3 Carthage workers, and 131 GP we also get Incense.

Battle for Mosul:
4/4 Rider vs. 3/3 Spear we win going 3/4.
Mosul is razed and we take another slave.

Battle for Aydab:
4/4 Rider vs. 3/3 Ansar we win going 3/4.
Aydab is razed.

4/4 Rider vs. 3/3 Longbow we win going 2/4.

Battle for Bayt Ras:
4/4 Rider vs. 3/3 Cav we lose cav goes 1/3.
4/4 Rider vs. 3/3 Ansar we win go 1/4.
5/5 Rider vs. 1/3 Cav we win.
Bayt Ras is razed.

The Arabs still don't want to talk. Ok I guess we will make them learn a big lesson or they will make us learn one.

4/4 Rider vs. 3/3 Longbow we win going 3/4.

IBT-
3/3 Ansar vs. 1/4 Rider we win promoting and going 2/5.
3/3 Cav vs. 4/5 Rider in jungle we win without a scratch. The RNG is really good. :D

Turn 2 1070 AD -
Beijing Rider->Rider

Rider walks right into Suhar razing it to the ground. :D

4/4 Rider vs. 3/3 MDI we win promoting and going to 3/5.
5/5 Rider vs. 3/3 MDI we win going to 4/5.

IBT-
See a greek musket. Alright they are really into this war. :)
See lots of MDI's, Longbow's, and a Pike from the Arabs.

Turn 3 1080 AD -
4/4 Rider vs. 3/3 Longbow we win without a scratch.
5/5 Rider vs. 3/3 Pike we win go to 4/5.
4/4 Rider vs. 4/4 MDI we win, but redline.
4/5 Rider vs. 3/3 MDI we win go to 3/5.
4/4 Rider vs. 3/3 Longbow we win without a scratch see a Cav perched on a mountain top.
4/4 Rider vs. 3/3 MDI we win and promote to 4/5.

4/4 Rider vs. 3/3 Spear we lose. Spear goes to 1/3.
4/4 Rider vs. 1/3 Spear we win without a scratch and promote.

Battle for Taif:
5/5 Rider vs. 3/3 Ansar we win and Taif is razed, and we go to 2/5.

IBT -
3/3 Cav vs. 3/4 Rider we lose cav goes to 2/3.

Turn 4 1090 AD -

Battle for Yamama:
5/5 Rider vs. 3/3 Spear we win without a scratch.
4/4 Rider vs. 3/3 Spear we win and promote to 3/5.
Yamama is razed.

4/5 Rider vs. 2/3 Cav we win going to 3/5.

Arabia's eastern pennisula is no more, but they still won't talk. Ok this is going to have to get ugly. ;)

IBT-
Greece sends their lone musketman into Arabia and it survives and attack. Greece takes Fez from Arabia...they send a cav into our territory on it's way to Arabia.

Turn 5 1100 AD -
Beijing Rider->Rider.

IBT -
Greece's musketman gets taken out by an MDI whih goes to 1/4.

Two Arab workers trying to build a railway into China...no way will Emperor Despot allow that to take place!

Turn 6 1110 AD -
We take two Arabian slaves building a railway.

5/5 Rider vs. 1/4 MDI we win going to 4/5.

Battle for Balkh:
4/4 Rider vs. 3/3 Musket we lose redlining and retreating. Musket goes to 2/3.
5/5 Rider vs. 2/3 Musket we win going to 2/5.

Balkh is razed.

IBT -
3/3 Cav vs. 4/4 Rider we win promoting and going to 2/5.

Turn 7 1120 AD -
Gathering troops near old Saltpeter colony.

Arabs will now take peace and will give us. Milatary Trad, Music Theory, Navigation, 115 GP, and 8 gpt. If we raze some more cities we can get that up. Both them and the Greeks have Nationalism.

Turn 8 1130 AD -
Saltpeter colony back online.

We raze Theveste losing one Rider. Get 2 slaves.

Arabs will now give Economics, both MT's, Nav, and 88 GP for peace. Let us try to get Nationalism, too.

4/4 Rider vs. 3/3 Cav we win going to 2/4 and taking two slaves.

IBT-
4/4 Cav vs. 2/4 Rider we lose cav doesn't even get a scratch.
Rhodes fall to Arabs.

Mecca builds Newton University.

Turn 9 1140 AD -
5/5 Rider vs. 2/3 Cav we win going to 4/5.
5/5 Rider vs. 3/3 Cav we win going to 3/5.

Battle for Merw:
5/5 Rider vs. 3/3 Musket we win going to 3/5.

Merw is razed. 3 slaves came with it.

5/5 Rider vs. 4/4 Cav we win, but redling in the process.

IBT-
Greece settled a spot on the Eastern pennisula.
Arabs settle Hama near where Merw was.

Turn 10 1150 AD -

Battle for Shiraz:
4/4 Rider vs. 3/3 Musket we win without a scratch.
4/4 Rider vs. 3/4 Cav we lose cav promotes to 3/5.
5/5 Rider vs. 3/5 Cav we win going 4/5.
Shiraz is razed.

Well now the Arabs will give the 2 MT's, Economics, Navigation, 86 GP, and 24 gpt. They still won't give up Nationalism.

We do still have a MA with Greece for another 11 turns. I'm not sure we care much about our rep...no one likes us anyways. :D

I'm not so sure we can press too much further ahead. Now we are reaching their big cities which will probably be guarded by more than one musket or rifle or spear. :lol:

I hope I didn't screw things up by not caving into Abu's demands. I simply did not like his tone of voice. :)

We only have 13 Rider's with another due in 1 turn.

The Save
 
Got it
 
1150 AD (Pre-turn) - No changes are made.

1160 AD - Rider kills stray cavalry going elite.
Another rider kills a stray musketmen.

1170 AD - Elite ride fails to kill a stray musketmen.
A second rider kills that musketmen.
Another elite rider barely kills a stray cavalry.

1180 AD - Elite rider kills a cavalry giving us a leader - Qianlong.
We can't build an army, and there are no wonders to rush. He simply hides in Beijing.
Of course our next rider can't kill stray cavalry. :rolleyes:
We raze Hama, and it still was defended with just one rifleman.
Our riders are smart and none die during the fighting.
(I) Our rider actually defends successfully against a cavalry.

1190 AD - I have actually found a use for coastal fortress.
By disbanding a worker, and rushing the fortress, we save a turn building a rider.
We kill yet another stray cavalry with a rider.

1200 AD - This is simply a round of resting the troops.

1210 AD - I don't know when our rep got trashed. :wallbash: :aargh:
Now this bites - the Arabs captured Pergamon, but I can't go after it because of a Greek cavalry in the way. It double bites as our wine colony is cut off, and luxuries go to 10% to make up for it.

1220 AD - It cost us several riders, but we raze size 9 Kufah, a 2nd ring Arab city. [dance]
I then see a picture that scares the you know what out of me - Arab workers cleaning up POLLUTION. :eek:
However, what makes absolutely no sense is the fact that they don't have factories yet. I then realize that Damascus has built the Iron Works.

We are making more progress in the hurt front, as Arabia will give us Nationalism for peace. However, I don't want to stop without also getting military tradition.
(I) The Arabs hit us hard killing 1 musket, 2 riders losing 2 cavalry. That is the largest stack I have seen from them.

1230 AD (I) - As expected, Arab pillages our far mountain iron. No way I was going to try riders for rifleman in mountain.

1240 AD - We do kill 2 more cavalry near Pergamon. We find that the city is only defended by cavalry and raze it. However, demonic cavalry cost us to riders. :mad:
We have wines back, and luxury tax is back to zero.
The razing gets Nationalism and military tradition close to a deal. :)

1250 AD - I can't find the leader that the Arabs got for killing a hoplite.
However, I kill 4 more Arab cavalry.


Summary:
We have just one turn left with the alliance with Greece.
I would sign peace with the Arabs after that turn, and get Nationalism / Military Tradition for ~$225. We can then have a round of troop rebuilding. We need cavalry to continue this fight.

Don't forget we have a leader - IF we can even figure out a use for him. It is looking like suffrage will be his goal.

Not a killer turn, but I took away 2 Arab luxuries and destroyed a second ring city.

If you disband workers for 2 shields, please use the Greek / Arab ones. We should save the dead civ workers for instant size 20 cities.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/LK47-1250AD.zip


Remember 10 turns per round - Post a got it, and complete your turn within 24 hours
 
Originally posted by Speaker
Remember that your capital cannot flip, so you can use any workers to boost its population. Not a 'got it' by the way, just a comment from the outside.
Click to expand...


I agree, but you create citizens who will instantly whine about war with the mother country creating major unhappy problems for a luxury poor civ.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

M
  • Locked
[DLL] (7-NS) Disallow land stealing with citadels during peace treaty
Replies
2
Views
236
Recursive
Recursive
L
Do you think this "smartass" move is "cheating"?
2
Replies
28
Views
2K
Somebody613
S
gwennog
  • Locked
(6-VT) No more need to have an embassy with another civilization to demand that it make peace with another Civ or CS
Replies
15
Views
872
Recursive
Recursive
M
Why is Mutual Protection Pact easier than Military Alliance?
Replies
3
Views
892
Mannerheimer
M
pineappledan
  • Locked
  • Poll
[Vote] (7-84) Lebensraum Rework
2
Replies
20
Views
1K
pineappledan
pineappledan
Top Bottom