LK76 - AWE - Pangea, No armies, Random Civ

[meldor]

950 AD (0)
Wake a couple of trebs and hit the pike. Wake a knight and kill it off. Swap Lauwersoog from a temple to a settler. Swap Breda to a settler as well. We need to get rid of Kua, but we don't have many offensive units. Wake a merc in Arnhem and send him towards the northwest. He can stretch out our knowledge of the lay of the land.
(I) MDI attacks a Merc and loses. A Longbow appears at Kua. MDI is set down by a caravel. A musket approaches in the south.

960 AD (1)
An elite knight barely kills the MDI, good thing it was elite. Move the stack of Trebs to cover what is now rifles in Kua. MOve the settler up to Lauwersoog to be ready to grab the area.
(I) We lose a Merc, but it takes one LB with it and the other is at 1 HP. Another rifle tries to re-enforce Kua but it can't make it. Haarlem Merc->Merc, rotterdam Knight->Knight. Harlingen Courthouse->Market. Leiden Library->Market. Den Helder Merc->Merc.

970 AD (2)
The trebs manage to make get only 1hp. I kill the exposed rifle so it can't re-enforce the city. Next goes the 1HP LB outside the city. In the mist are 5 LB, 1 MDI, 1 musket and 1 rifle.
(I) A bunch of MDI show up at Breda. Another rifle is on the way to Kua. Two muskets land behind our lines. We lose a Merc and MDI and they lose a knight. Maastricht cannon->settler.

980 AD (3)
The trebs do much better, redlining both the rifle and the musket. Two knights take them out and we get 46g but no workers. An elite MDI attacking a longbow gets us a GL. Shuffle units to get another Merc in Breda. Two knights attack the MDI at Breda, one retreats, the other dies. Get another merc in the city. The settler and another merc move in place to claim the horses. Trebs do 2hp damage to a rifle on our silks, an MDI take him out.
(I)We lose a knight and an MDI, they lose an MDI, Knight and LB. Amsterdam and The Hague Knight->Knight, Breda settler->merc.

 

[meldor]

990 AD (4)
OK we have a Knight, Crusader and rifle after our silks. We have 4 LB, MDI and pike near the new town of Zwolle. I kill off the musket in the south after pounding it. I pound the rifle in the north and take it with a knight. I kill one of the three muskets near Leiden.
(I)We lose a knight, they lose 3 MDI. We now have 5 LB, 4 rifles, a knight, a crusader and an MDI in the north. OUr silks are going to be pillaged. At Breda, we have 4 LB and 5 MDI. A musket is trying to sneak in near Haarlem and 2 near Maastricht.

1000 AD(5)
The trebs in the north don't do much. I can't attack any units there because to would leave them too exposed. I can kill 2 MDI and a LB at Breda. The two muskets near Maastricht retreat 2 knights.
(I)Our exploring merc is cut down by a bow. The lose a LB at Breda. At Tilberg eats a Crusader and a rifle. Groningen Courthouse->Knight

1010 AD (6)
I only manage to kill one rifle and one LB in the north. We do manage to damage a couple more LBs. Kill one LB at Breda. Looks like they are going to leave it alone. That would be good, as we can shift some more forces north. I switch Lauwersoog to a Merc.
(I)We lose a merc and MDI at Breda, they lose an MDI but gain a leader. A rifle dies in the north. Rotterdam knight->knight. Maastricht settler->Rax. Lauwersoog Merc->Merc.

1020 AD (7)
Kill an MDI, Longbow and the GL Ogodei at Breda.
(I) We lose a merc, they lose a longbow, rifle and 2 MDI. More coming though. Haarlem Merc->Merc, Amsterdam Knight->knight. Arnhem Rax->Merc. We get a palace expansion for some reason.

1030 AD (8)
Kill a knight at Breda. The two muskets can't retreat our two elite knights a second time and are no more. Kill a knight at Breda and another in the north. Pound some more units. Up science to get MT next turn.
(I)We lose two knights and a merc at Breda. They lose two MDI. We get MT and start on Astronomy. Groningen Merc->Merc

1040 AD (9)
Clean up one MDI at Breda, can't do much else. Shuffle units to get another merc to Breda.
(I) We lose a Merc at Breda but they lose 4 MDI. We retreat a knight at Zwoller and a Cav at Tilger. Yes, Cav are here and two more appear. The Sumerians appear to have found some horses. A LB dies in the north as well. Silk and Salt walls->Rax, The Hague produces our first Cav and starts another. Groningen gets a leader rushed uni and starts a Cav, Middleberg temple->Merc, Den Helder Merc->Merc.

1050 AD (10)
Kill off a Cav, MDI, musket and Longbow. A stack of workers have been moved down from the north. They need some place to go...

 

[meldor]

I might have forgotten something...

 

[LKendter]

. A stack of workers have been moved down from the north. They need some place to go...

If nothing else is availabe to do, I would finish roading all the mountains. We may get lucky and have a road on our coal source when we know about it. Added mobility never hurts either.

We get MT and start on Astronomy

We do get some good news. I will appreciate the extra attack and speed. I hope some of these techs are cheaper due to more AIs have researched them. We really need to catch up.

======================

Signed up:
LKendter (currently playing)
Greebley (on deck)
Zwingli
hotrod0823
Meldor

Our general game plan:
1) To target our cities to always be 3 apart tiles. With no armies it is really critical to keep this rule going.
2) Science research must be very aggressive with deficit spending if we can afford it.
3) Try to build the roads before the city to take maximum advantage of the 3 tile city plans.
4) Raze all cities unless they have a useful wonder.

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Additional restriction: No armies

 

[LKendter]

1050 AD
The bad news is our science rate is terrible even with techs known by other civs. That third luxury is badly needed. The lack of specialist cities also hurts. However, the only possible specialist cities are at the front lines. That makes it unsafe to put the workers by those cities for maximum irrigation.

We are also suffering from a troop shortage, as I have to leave injured troops alive.

I fix Amsterdam for optimal Cavalry production at 20 shields a turn. It was at a very wasteful 19 shields a turn.
(IT) I kill 1 cavalry on defense.


1060 AD
I kill 1 musket, 1 knight, 2 longbows and 3 MDI. I am forced to leave to many injured units alive near Zwolle.

Sumeria is in Communism. They have already gotten past at least one government tech.

1070 AD
I kill 2 longbows, 1 knight and 1 pikeman. I lost a cavalry to a demonic pikeman.


To be continued...

 

[LKendter]

1080 AD
I have no idea how I lost track of this turn.


1090 AD
I kill 2 riflemen, 2 longbows and 1 musket. I am sorely lacking enough attack units.
(IT) I lost 1 knight.


1100 AD
I killed 1 musket, 1 pikeman, 1 rifleman and 1 knight. I lost 1 precious cavalry. There are 5 Sumerian rifles near the silks town.
(IT) The only damage is our spare silks are pillaged.


1110 AD
I killed 1 cavalry, 1 longbow and 1 rifleman. I lost 1 knight.

The Mongols are back heading toward Breda.

My short exploration shows the Mongols also are industrial.
(IT) I killed 1 knight on defense.


1120 AD
I killed 1 rifleman, 3 MDI and 1 longbow. I promoted 1 badly injured MDI. I lost 1 cavalry. We are only building 2 to 3 a turn and can't even afford a single loss a turn right now.

It is so rough I sent a 3 hp knight to kill that longbow. We need to get rid of troops permanently.

There are now 8 visible Sumerian rifleman and we have just 5 cavalry and 3 knights.
(IT) I lost 1 merc on defense, and killed 1 rifleman on defense.


1130 AD
I kill 2 riflemen and 3 knights.

It is up to 10 visible Sumerian riflemen despite the kills.
(IT) An excellent round of defense as 2 riflemen and 1 MDI die at no cost.

I start the cheapest mandatory tech of banking at 9 turns to arrive.


1140 AD
I kill 2 longbows, 1 rifleman and 1 knight. The kill ratio finally is turning in my favor.
(IT) No attacks occur, but we get a palace expansion.

The Sumerians land troops in our rear zone!


1150 AD
I kill 2 riflemen, 1 spearman (Persian), 1 crusader and 2 longbows.

I killed one of the two invaders by Leiden.






Summary:
My turn can be summed up in 1 word - stalemate. That isn't a good word as we desperately need the ivory to have a chance to catch up to Sumeria in tech. I don't want to fight tanks with rifleman.

For the most part I am on heavy military. I don't feel we can support working on buildings at the moment.

IMHO if we get a leader we should rush barracks in Tilburg. A healing point closer to the front is badly needed.

The goal of the lone explorer is forward 3, then back 3. I want a better knowledge of the map


Signed up:
LKendter
Greebley (currently playing)
Zwingli (on deck)
hotrod0823
Meldor

Our general game plan:
1) To target our cities to always be 3 apart tiles. With no armies it is really critical to keep this rule going.
2) Science research must be very aggressive with deficit spending if we can afford it.
3) Try to build the roads before the city to take maximum advantage of the 3 tile city plans.
4) Raze all cities unless they have a useful wonder.

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Additional restriction: No armies

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/LK76-1150AD.zip

 

[LKendter]

The below is the newest dot-map. All previous maps are invalid
Keep the red line manned is critical! Before I put that wall up the Sumerian rifleman stacks were trying to go deep in our territory to pillage. I would rather fight rifles attacking at 4 vs. mercs at 4 behind walls, that attacking them at 6 scattered all place and hard to get enough artillery support.

The goal is to make the white line the new blocking point. This shortens the lines, and lets us build some specialist cities. That would do wonders for our science rate.

The AI is ignoring the double mercs with buckets on the silks tile. Don't moves those units!

 

[Greebley]

Ok, I got it.

I will see what I can do to get the ivory.

 

[Zwingli]

Note: I will be without civ or internet access between October 13 and 16 due to travel. If I am up between those dates, you can skip or wait until late on the 16th (Saturday).

 

[LKendter]

Signed up:
LKendter
Greebley (currently playing)
Zwingli (on deck) (travel Oct 13 to Oct 16)
hotrod0823
Meldor

Our general game plan:
1) To target our cities to always be 3 apart tiles. With no armies it is really critical to keep this rule going.
2) Science research must be very aggressive with deficit spending if we can afford it.
3) Try to build the roads before the city to take maximum advantage of the 3 tile city plans.
4) Raze all cities unless they have a useful wonder.

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Additional restriction: No armies

 

[Greebley]

Preturn:
Looking over the situation, I think I am going to try to grab the Elephants sooner rather than later, It is one more city do defend, but I think we have enough troops to pull things off. Will at least wait until next turn to see how things are.
We also have a very good natural wall of mountains a single square behind our current wall. This has the disadvantage that some mines and road will be pillaged, but since we will be irrigating it anyway it is only a small loss. The double defense Swiss on mountains makes it worthwhile IMHO.

Check and find two cities that are ready to riot. I think the defenders moved out to hold off the Crusader that landed.

Check diplo and am suprised to find we know Babylon and are at peace with them. Yay! Just what we needed to add challenge to the game. Another Civ to send units.

Aside: This would be a challenging AWE game even with armies I think. Without armies its going to be a very rough ride, with a crash and burn as a real possibility. The only good news is I see no Cavalry coming at us and Babylon lacks Saltpeter. Ah yes, this is a small map. We have only 5 opponents and we know them all.

Summary of Cavalry Potential:
Sumeria lacks Horses and iron
Aztecs lack Military Tradition - I suspect they will be sending cavalry soon. Bad news for us.
Mongols can build cavalry, but I don't see any. Will I see some soon? Given the large number of MDI, I wonder if they just got horses.
Persia is essentially dead - they lack Monotheism, Horses, Iron, and Saltpeter.

IBT: The Landed Crusader kills a Swiss Merc.
Newtons is finished

1160 AD: We kill the Crusader, a Musketeer, and a rifle, losing Cavalry loses to a 2 hp rifle.

IBT: We lose two Swiss Mercs to a rifle and a knight.

1170 AD:
Build Gouda and rush the walls. It costs us a knight and 12 gold, but will save many more than 70 shields in the long run to have those walls. Lower Lux and raise science.
Kill a rifle, a knight and some MDI's. No losses.

IBT: No attacks

1180 AD: Kill a few more units. Also cut some roads to allow for more warnings from fast units. One road cutter spots Babylonian Knights.

IBT: A road cutting Cav is more vulnerable than I thought and gets attacked by 3 rifles. It wins every time and is now elite. (Sumeria has an ROP with Persia.

1190 AD: Decide to Capture Bactra. It prevents the AI from going through the mountains and has no flip chance (and is on a hill) This greatly improves the survivability of our troops. We can disband later when it is not needed. I will keep it for now...We can replace it with our own town if we want to waste the settler.

It looks like the sea to the north is near Bactra. We may be able to create a shorter front line soon.

IBT: My 10+ Babylon knights spotted..."Incoming!"

1200 AD: Bad RNG round. Lose a Cavalry to a 2 hp rifle on clear land, and then I lose a knight vs the same rifle when it has 1 hp. Attacks vs defense 1 and 2 units bring the cavalry's hp to 1 for 3 different attacks (We kill 2 and one retreat).

IBT: Several attacks and we do well. Bactra holds off several attacks including the first Babylon knights. A few Swiss Mercs on a hill hold off 4 MDI without loss.

1210 AD: We lose a Cavalry when attacking a defense 2 Keshik (forest). Destroy Tyre (Persian)

IBT: Some Attacks. Lose a Swiss Merc.

1220 AD: Argh! two cavalry lost attacking a MDI, and a 2 hp Musket. Not good.

IBT: A Swiss merc on a mountain is attacked it takes out 2 units before it dies. Babylon is a real presence now. First (Mongol) Cavalry Shows up

1230 AD: Pressure is getting very heavy. We now have 4 civs pouring units at us. I kill a few including that first Cavalry I saw. Get another leader.

IBT: Oh joy! A second cavalry - this one is Aztec.

1240 AD: Settle the spot that closes off the frontier. Use the leader to rush a colloseum. Lose another Cavalry in an easy fight. (2 hp knight on flat).

IBT: A MDI lands behind lines.

1250 AD: The Cavalry left behind to deal with landings retreats doing no damage (at least it retreated instead of died). This means I have to pull some Swiss Mercs from their towns to cover. Lose the last of the 3 elite knights when attacking a 1 hp rifle.

Notes:
Lee, Is the not keeping cities a hard and fast rule? If so, then I erred. In this case keeping the town saved us the loss of units that we desperately need. The AI was getting too many first attacks using the roads (they all seem to have an ROP with Persia). There is a settler in the town if we want to abandon and replace, but given that our culture is 10x of Persia there is 0 chance of a flip with a single unit in it. and it fits nicely within our defense (strengthening it and lowering the chances of cut roads that matter (the two northen luxuries).

There is a 1 HP Cavalry in the north that got chased there. Our northern boat is nearby and can rescue it. This is definitely worth doing. We can't afford the loss of the Cavalry

The Hagues production was pushed to 18 to catch up when the MDI made us 2 shields short. You can readjust after the Cavalry builds (to 16)

This could be winnable if we can handle the Cavalry.

On the Positive:
Our resarch is back up to 40% with Physics in 5 turns (research was 20% at start of turn).

Simply building the the town on the Ivory worked very well. I blocked on the mountains as I first mentioned, but was never seriously attacked. On the other hand there is a lot of rifles up there and killing them is slow work.

We advanced forward and have a shorter line of control.

It looks like we are going be able to isolate a peninsula with a thin choke with just a little more forward progress. Only Persian cities in the way so we shouldn't have too much troubles doing so. The boat can check out the Peninsula

I made 2 Caravels. We know all civs. The knowledge of the shape of the continent is very important, I feel, especially with no pillagers exploring. For example, it will tell us if the Peninsula is easy or hard to take out. If easy, it will be more land without more of a front line (excepting boats).

On the Negative:
The only reason we could grab more land is because it was guarded by Persian spears. The situation is still mostly stalemated. We need more of every unit.

Even trying to go for good odds battles, I was losing Cavalry. Rifles are just hard to get rid of.

Starting to lose money again. (Unit costs is 28).

We can see:
Sumeria: 17 rifles, 1 Longbow
Persia: 2 longbow, mostly Persia is keeping the Cavalry from killing rifles and generating leader for us. They have tapered off some after losing the two cities.
Babylon: 4 pikes, 2 longbow, and 2 knights, and a rifle. Their first knight wave is dead.
Aztecs: 3 muskets and a knight. A cavalry was spotted by the scout.
Mongols: 6 MDI, a third Cavalry (first two are dead), 2 Longbow, 2 Muskets, and a worker. These guys have tied up 5 Cavalry in the south. Their units would attack for the longest time. They almost seemed to be chasing the explorer or some such nonsense. We have been slaughtering them on the last few turns; this force is about a 1/3 of what it was 3 turns ago.

We are weak compared to Babylon and Sumeria, Average to the Mongols and Aztecs, and Strong compared to the Persians.

City Counts:
Sumeria: 11 Cities (includes Capitol). Large Sumerian border to the NE. Industrial
Persia: 3 Cities. We can see all 3. They shouldn't be hard to take out.
Babylon: 12 cities. We can see the border of one, but do not yet know if it is isolated or not. Industrial
Aztecs: 11 Cities. No Aztec rifles spotted and his picture looks middle-ages to me.
Mongols: 16! Cities. Definitely industrial. No rifles seen yet.

We may want to consider going after the mongols. The land is more productive being less distance from our capitol and they definitely lead in city count so may be catching up. A bit of trimming might be useful especially if we can get to them before they have rifles (haven't seen any yet but thats no guarantee.

I would base the decision on whether we can take out the northern Peninsula or whether that needs to wait. In any case I would replace Samaria as the first priortity.

Culturally we are doing pretty well. We have aprox 1/2 the culture of the next nearest civ.

 

[Greebley]

Here is a map of our current territory. Lee, you may want to make a new dot map now we know how the coastline goes.

I would like to destroy Samaria and use the settler in Bactra to settle a choke city for whatever is to the north. Then we can backfill the northmost lands and have only an eastern border with a choke to the north.

 

[Zwingli]

Got it, but no time tonight. Will start tomorrow evening and wait for any extra advice.

 

[LKendter]

Check and find two cities that are ready to riot. I think the defenders moved out to hold off the Crusader that landed.

You hit it dead on. I tend to check for riots before hitting next turn. Since there was no next turn, they didn't get checked.

==================================

Check diplo and am surprised to find we know Babylon and are at peace with them.

When did that slip in? Usually the AI will contact you after a turn. I know I checked diplomacy somewhere during the turn, and didn't have Babylon 5 as a contact. Of course the year isn't 2258 yet.

==================================

Aside: This would be a challenging AWE game even with armies I think.

I agree, though I am still debating exactly why. I think the Arbela disaster really slowed our start down. Too much time had to be spent rebuilding military, rather then cities. However, the other factors that have made this brutal and they aren't as clear.

The goods news is you have a good crew for the challenge.

==================================

Lee, Is the not keeping cities a hard and fast rule?

It isn't totally written in stone, but it is high encouraged. The main goals are to avoid a disaster flip with multiple units lost, and the cities tend to be NOT 3 tiles apart.

I reacted very strongly last AWE game due to one of the cities taken being 4 away from any other city and it read like wanting to take all AI cities. Yours was a very deliberate exception from an all but dead civ with flip risk evaluated. I still want to minimize captures, and will still leave the comment there.

The only reason we could grab more land is because it was guarded by Persian spears. The situation is still mostly stalemated.

AW in general is about finding an opening and taking advantage. Think how much hard this would be if we hadn't hurt Persia badly. The small gains do add up.

==================================

Will start tomorrow evening and wait for any extra advice.

Just looking the picture I see empty cities. This will encourage more AI landings. We can't handle landings very well.

Our number one science goal is rails for the industrial ages. We really need the extra mobility for defense and quicker reinforcements.

==================================

I am impressed by how much our map knowledge has improved since my turn. It looks like the lone explorer is more the earning its 20 shields.

I will do up another dot map tonight. I know I want to complete the NW back fill cities to bring us more potential specialist cities and get us close to domination. The red and blue dots from that dot map are still valid.

We hit the important goals in the north with ivory and a choke point area. Now we need to locate luxury #4.

Signed up:
LKendter
Greebley
Zwingli (currently playing) (travel Oct 13 to Oct 16)
Hotrod0823 (on deck)
Meldor

Our general game plan:
1) To target our cities to always be 3 apart tiles. With no armies it is really critical to keep this rule going.
2) Science research must be very aggressive with deficit spending if we can afford it.
3) Try to build the roads before the city to take maximum advantage of the 3 tile city plans.
4) Raze all cities unless they have a useful wonder.

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Additional restriction: No armies

 

[Greebley]

2 or 3 of those empty cities are due to their Swiss Mercs protecting the Cavalry and the town near the landed MDI. THey can go back after the threat is removed. We still may be a few short, but have cities building Swiss Mercs to refill them. Also when the Mongol threat is gone, it will free some up to head back to where they came from. Zwingli, I think you will be able to cover our towns again in 2-3 turns.

I am glad I read your city razing rule correctly.

As we get sufficient settlers to take Persian lands, I think we should attack their cities and settle. We need to coordinate advancing the front, attacking the cities and having the settlers ready, but it seems very doable with the Persian cities only guarded by spears. This would mean contininuing to build settlers in the less useful or max size towns.

 

[meldor]

One factor is the larger front. We haven't been able to concentrate attackers and defenders. Thus, we can't use our advantages as well as inthe last few games. We need to find out the lay of the land to the east. If there is a way to shorten the border, that would be good.

 

[Greebley]

Ya, I agree. This setup is the hardest of the LK AW games I have played in.

I have played AWE games that armies were incedental, and ones that would have been lost without them and two that were lost with them. Starting position probably has the largest role.

The fact that we are not able to pillage resources to remove (say) cavalry definitely makes it harder. The tech pace is also swifter and the AI has more units. It definitely makes it a more difficult variant, IMO.

 

[LKendter]

It definitely makes it a more difficult variant, IMO.

That was my primary objective. I hated how AW falls apart after a couple of high attack armies go smashing all AI cities. I wanted the game to actually see infantry and possibly tanks. The UN may be a factor this game, but killing Persia will go a long way toward making that meaningless.

--------------------------

I have one issue with looking the game. Silk and Salt is a specialist city. Why are we wasting time using 1 shield mountain tiles? I set it to 3 scientists and Physics dropped a turn. These little things add up and keep us in the tech hole. We need have our rail-net complete before infantry start crossing our borders. Every turn is important in that goal.

I still would like to get these cities on the map. This is going to be a domination win most likely, so we may as well get a few more tiles toward victory. The only bad thing about this area is we don't gain any more potential for coal.

This is the newest block of cities. Gray dot is an awkward 2 away, but that area is so hot we need multiple reinforcement sources for the city. The problem is these cities are going to be hot so fast is that we must have the roads completed before building the cities.

 

[meldor]

Why did you repost the old picture? Did you want to put up a new dot map?

 

[LKendter]

I reposted the old picture as the NW corner still needs two of those cities.

The second picture is a new dot-map.