LK76 - AWE - Pangea, No armies, Random Civ

[LKendter]

I don't understand Meldor's comment about the Saltpeter. We have our own source near The Hague.

550 AD
(IT) All the AI troops run away from Lauwersoog?


560 AD
I kill 1 horseman and 2 MDI gaining one promotion.
(IT) The Aztecs retreat healthy units toward the Mongols. I wonder if they have a war going.
Sumeria has started on Copernicus.


570 AD
I kill 1 horseman, 1 EW and 1 archer.


580 AD
I kill 1 EW gaining one promotion. I lost 1 MDI attacking a longbow.
(IT) The AI bypasses Harlingen.


590 AD
I kill 1 longbow and 1 archer. The RnG is really annoying me as another MDI dies attacking a longbow.
(IT) The AI longbow attack fails.


600 AD
I hate letting a stack of 1 hp longbows escape, but the only units available to attack are Mercs.
(IT) We have a second AI landing by Leiden.


610 AD
I kill 1 archer.


620 AD
I kill 1 archer. Lack of roads in the north is really making attacking hard. I am working on improving that road net.
(IT) What is with the Sumerian obsession with Leiden? This is the 3rd landing during my turns.
The Sumerians are building Smith's. We have the run away tech leader.


630 AD
I kill 1 AC, and 4 longbows. I gain one promotion.
(IT) The defenders at Harlingen do quite well as 3 longbows die at no cost and we get 2 promotions.


640 AD
I kill 1 horseman, 1 Crusader and 3 longbows. I gain one promotion.
(IT) This is just pure painful.

We lost 2 MDI, 1 leader, and 1 merc for just 1 horseman.

We get education from the Great Library. I didn't even realize that it was still working. It really shows how much of a runaway Sumeria is.

Persia lands a unit by Leiden.


650 AD
I kill 1 longbow.



Summary:
This was a round of stabilizing the north. I got a decent amount of roads completed up there to help the situation.

Kisurra has been the main healing source for Sumeria. It is the source of the invasions by Leiden. This city must go.
In addition we really need to start building some fast units. Our loss ratio must drop to move forward and knight will really help.


Signed up:
LKendter
Greebley (currently playing)
Zwingli (on deck)
hotrod0823
Meldor

Our general game plan:
1) To target our cities to always be 3 apart tiles. With no armies it is really critical to keep this rule going.
2) Science research must be very aggressive with deficit spending if we can afford it.
3) Try to build the roads before the city to take maximum advantage of the 3 tile city plans.
4) Raze all cities unless they have a useful wonder.

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Additional restriction: No armies

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/LK76-650AD.zip

 

[Greebley]

Meldor reported getting education from the GLib too. I did think it odd to get both theology and education without meeting a new civ. AI research doesn't usually do that. I suspect it was a different tech.

I got it. Agree on the knights and will try to deal with Kissura.

 

[Greebley]

Preturn: Ah, yes. Taking out Kissura and getting horses is the same thing. I had forgotten that little detail. Glad we aren't going for Pasargadae to get them.

I also suspect we will have contact with the Mongols soon. They have cities close to ours.

I will also work on connecting up the incense. Swiss mercs are good enough to defend workers to do so.

I sneak in a harbor for those towns that are using coastal squares already. We get them at half cost so this seems reasonable.

IBT: We lose a Swiss Merc and a MDI stack. Sumeria is using Persia's roads. We will need to be careful near the border.
Spot a sumerian Musket.

660 AD: I switch some towns from Libraries to Aquaducts. They will gain more from being size 7 than they with a library as they are fairly corrupt (a library would add 1 beaker for one city).

IBT: We lose all 3 attacks (2 swiss mercs and a MDI on a mountain) against us vs a horseman, longbow, and Ancient Cav.

670 AD: We Raze Kissura. The Elite swordsman we kept gets us a leader Damage a Crusader, but do not attack. Whatever I attacked with would be kill in the IBT, so it is not worth it.

With the Leader, I go for a culture expansion in the town near the enemy attack. This will allow us to build roads in those mountains that we can use and they cannot.

IBT: We get Chemestry and start on Metallurgy.

680 AD: Kill a musket, Enkidu, and a some Longbow.

IBT: The few remaining longbow are killed by our defenses.

690 AD: Bombard and kill a few enemy troops

IBT: Enemies are now coming in from the east instead of north. This includes a stack of a pike and 7 MDI to the south from the Aztecs.

700 AD: A healthy elite MDI fails to kill a 1 hp Crusader. Kill a Ancient cav.
Breda and middleburg are an annoying 4 squares apart.

IBT: Well the Aztecs must have just finished a war. They are sending a lot of units at us. Our first knight is built

710 AD: A second leader. Not sure on what to build yet - probably a University in our capitol though...

IBT: 10 MDI and a Pike are next to Breda now. A crusader comes next to our Northern city.

720 AD: Kill 5 of the MDI leaving 5 and a longbow left. There are 3 more appoaching.

IBT: The RNG is on our side and our 4 Swiss Mercs hold off the hordes Some enemy knights appear though and will attack us next turn.

730 AD: One of our two knights loses against one of their injured knights. Blort! Attack with our MDI too and there are 4 MDI, a knight, and a longbow left

IBT: We lose a Swiss Merc, but generally things go well.

740 AD: Kill more units. We finally can bombard sufficiently to at least damage all units. Some units further into our territory that we had to ignore to take care of the immediate threats are killed (they didn't pillage - I killed them as they stepped onto improved lands).

IBT: No attacks since all enemies not killed are damaged and so retreat.

750 AD: Block a Musket that I don't have the trebs to bombard. Clear out another decent sized Aztec stack. With knights I am now able to kill the last unit and come back

Notes:
We have survived a fairly large attack from the Aztecs; over 20 offensive units and few defensive ones. They will probably now go back to trickle mode. We will probably see more than we did before, but not huge numbers.

We chould consider making a "fake" army. Take 3 Swiss Mercs and a knight in one stack and go into the enemy territories and pillage a square a turn. The knight can "pillage-move". It is my belief that the AI will ignore this stack just like it does armies and go after easier stacks. The only reason not to do this is if this is against the variant that we are playing (i.e. are we playing no armies as defined by the game, or are we playing no stacks that the AI ignores?)

I am guessing that we shouldn't allow the above move, but I felt it worth bringing up as a point of discussion.

 

[Greebley]

Here is a picture of the world:

I think we should settle the red dot.

Two cities in danger (Breda and Middleburg) are 4 apart meaning we can't shuttle troops between them. A forward city on the hill would mean we get additional defense and all front line cities would be within 3 of each other. It may take a bit of doing to clear the enemy to form the city though.

Edit: Still no Mongol contact. I thought if we had touching borders we would get contact, but this is not the case.

 

[LKendter]

We chould consider making a "fake" army. Take 3 Swiss Mercs and a knight in one stack and go into the enemy territories and pillage a square a turn. The knight can "pillage-move". It is my belief that the AI will ignore this stack just like it does armies and go after easier stacks. The only reason not to do this is if this is against the variant that we are playing (i.e. are we playing no armies as defined by the game, or are we playing no stacks that the AI ignores?)

IMO this goes against the spirit of the variant. Part of the no armies was to take away systematic pillaging. If we wait to astronomy and put mutliple exploeres under the stack we could pilage the AI to death. This has proven to powerful.

--------------------------

Whatever I attacked with would be kill in the IBT, so it is not worth it.

Exactly why I want the knights. We really need to be able to go back to a safe zone.

--------------------------

One comment on the culture rush in Lauwersoog. When rushing culture in highly corrupt cities a temple is much better. We at least get some happiness out of the temple, while the library does nothing for us.

--------------------------

I am heading to bed in a couple of minutes, and I am to tired to think on red dot. The only early thought is are we ready for meeting the Mongols?

--------------------------

Signed up:
LKendter
Greebley
Zwingli (currently playing)
hotrod0823 (on deck)
Meldor

Our general game plan:
1) To target our cities to always be 3 apart tiles. With no armies it is really critical to keep this rule going.
2) Science research must be very aggressive with deficit spending if we can afford it.
3) Try to build the roads before the city to take maximum advantage of the 3 tile city plans.
4) Raze all cities unless they have a useful wonder.

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Additional restriction: No armies

 

[Greebley]

You are right about the temple rather than the library. I was thinking too much about getting culture quickly, but the temple is clearly the better choice.

I agree on the pillaging ruling. As you say it is too powerful with explorers.

I am unsure if the red dot gives us contact with the Mongols. If so we may want to hold off until we do get contact. Another civ pouring units at us so soon after the Aztecs may deplete our forces beyond safe limits. I would rather have more knights with their superior movement before meeting them.

In that case we want to push northward. East is completely blocked by the Mongols now. North is tricky with the mountain range and swamps though.

We really need more Luxuries. We could send a single Swiss Merc north (sticking to defensive terrain) to see if we can spot any. That would make a drive north worthwhile.

 

[Zwingli]

Got it. Will look over it tonight and start tomorrow (Sunday).

Edit: Played 2.5 turns and have sent a merc over the mountains. We are currently forced to oscillate research between 20% (-6gpt) and 30% (+17gpt). The silks outside Antioch would allow us to turn down lux a notch and have stable research at 40%. (Unit movement is incomplete at the moment).

 

[Greebley]

Nice!

The silks are close enough to be reachable. With luck we can grab them before we meet the Mongols. As you state it would definitely boost our research.

I would do what you can to try to get to them without risking losing our towns in the East.

 

[Zwingli]

750 AD (0)
Not much to move or change. I note we are 4th in GNP meaning that 3 of the other civs are individually outproducing us in shields and gold.

IBT- We lose a merc behind walls to an ancient cavalry, no enemy losses.

760 AD (1)
Destroy an AC, pike, mdi, longbow, horse, crusader, and enkidu warrior without loss.
Send a single merc onto the hills north of Lauersoog.

IBT- Northern merc fends off a longbow but is destroyed by a second (I guess they won't be ignored on hills). An MDI is destroyed by a Persian horse.

770 AD (2)
We are running out of gold, research has to be reduced to 30%.
Destroy a crusader, spearman, 2 longbows, and pike for no losses.
Send a merc + an MDI onto the hills north of Lauersoog.

IBT- Once again the northern merc is attacked, but flawlessly holds off 2 longbows and promotes to elite. A western merc is destroyed by a longbow.

780 AD (3)
Gold reserves are further diminished, research down to 20%.
Destroy a knight, pike, longbow, and horse without loss.
Advance further into Persian territory, spotting silks at Antioch

IBT- longbow and horse defeated in defense.

790 AD (4)
Reseach up to 30%.
Destroy 1 musket flawlessly and send all spare troops + a settler toward Antioch.

IBT- Mongol workers move into view . A modest Sumarian stack approaches, which will be difficult to counter with our diminished defenses.

800 AD (5)
Declare war on Mongolia.
Compared to these guys we have a strong military .

Kill 2 muskets, longbow, pike, and horse
We lose 2 knights to a redlined pike on flatland, but at least get a great leader. Will use the leader to rush culture in the silks city so that we can get silks and keep a 3 tile city pattern.

IBT- Our settler stack comes under heavy Sumerian attack and we lose 1 merc and 1 MDI, defeating 2 longbowmen and 1 musketman. Other units are severely damaged and will have to heal before the attack.
Sumerians also complete both Bachs and Copernicus.

810 AD (6)
Move the damaged stack to a mountain to join a secondary stack.
Kill 1 longbow without loss


820 AD (7)
Kill 3 longbows without loss. Combine two stacks to advance on Antioch next turn.

IBT- The Persians come up with a pile of longbows and slaughter 2 mercs + 1 MDI defending 4 workers losing 1 longbow. Fortunately they don't disband the workers.

830 AD (8)
Kill 3 longbows, 1 pike and recapture our workers.
Advance on Antioch with a large attack stack, and a sub-optimal road to Antioch is complete.

IBT- We defeat 1 longbow in defense, the Mongols begin pouring in
Built a regular merc (at least good for police duty).

840 AD (9)
Raze Antioch from 2 spears at a cost of 1 MDI (2 slaves).
Found "Silk and Salt" 1 tile south of Antioch ruins and rush a library with Henry Hudson to extend borders for silks.
Kill 1 musket and 1 spear

IBT- Mongols move more scary troops in the east, and we lose a merc in the west.
Sumeria starts Newtons

850 AD (10)
Move troops to cover our positions, and start a 1 move road to Silk and Salt.

Post-Turn
A supporting city for Silk and Salt can be placed near the Persian capital. The Mongols are going to be tough for a short time, but the greater long term threat is the runaway Sumerians. For this reason, I would not reduce science to upgrade any of our trebs since upgrading all of them would cost 510 gold (cannons aren't that much better than trebs anyway).

 

[Greebley]

Good work on getting the Silk. That will really help us. Agree on keeping science high. We want cavalry ASAP.

Destroying Pasargadae and building a town 2 squares North of Lauwersoog would help us by putting the incense inside the borders.

It also occurred to me that the best thing to rush with leaders to give us border expansions is probably colosseums. We get 2 happiness and still have the cheaper temple to build if we need more (even better is universities (or banks when we get them) in our home cities when we don't need to expand borders).

Do we want to build a boat to head North to try to find Sumeria? It has a risk of meeting another civ (we can retreat if we see a border however - we only risk meeting units, so the risk isn't too bad), but would help us go after the powerhouse civ in the game since we know which direction to go. The most likely scenario is to find Sumeria and not another new civ.

 

[hotrod0823]

I see it but may not start until tomorrow. Have to catch up on LK75

Hotrod

 

[LKendter]

I will do a new dot map up and post it tomorrow morning.
I can't to it now as a video size reset (such as starting civ) kills my on-line session. Don't ask me why. It took me the longest time to even realize what was happening.

I just know it started after my new motherboard and a different video driver.

=========================

Sumeria starts Newtons

What is it with this game and Sumeria becoming a run away civ? Aggies 5CC was a lost to a monster Sumeria. What we need more then anything is to improve our research ability to catch up. The silks will help, but we need to locate even more luxuries.

=========================

Found "Silk and Salt" 1 tile south of Antioch ruins and rush a library with Henry Hudson to extend borders for silks.

I am going to say this again. Rushing libraries in corrupt towns isn't worth it. We really don't want to spend $1/turn to increase science output in a totally corrupt town.

=========================

Signed up:
LKendter
Greebley
Zwingli
hotrod0823 (currently playing)
Meldor (on deck)

Our general game plan:
1) To target our cities to always be 3 apart tiles. With no armies it is really critical to keep this rule going.
2) Science research must be very aggressive with deficit spending if we can afford it.
3) Try to build the roads before the city to take maximum advantage of the 3 tile city plans.
4) Raze all cities unless they have a useful wonder.

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Additional restriction: No armies

 

[Zwingli]

I am going to say this again. Rushing libraries in corrupt towns isn't worth it. We really don't want to spend $1/turn to increase science output in a totally corrupt town.

I agree that a library in a corrupt town is of questionable value. However, a specialist town should also have little or no problem with happiness except during initial growth when a strong MP garrison is likely. Should we consider selling such border improvements after expansion? I would probably wait until the second (100cp) border expansion before selling.

 

[LKendter]

Should we consider selling such border improvements after expansion? I would probably wait until the second (100cp) border expansion before selling.

At some point we may want to sell them. It should be sold when we gain nothing more toward domination.


========================

@Zwingli - I noticed the save is from the beginning of 850AD. Please post at the end of the turn.

========================

I notice the same pattern with the run away Sumeria. The have Bach's and Sistine. The only good part with the run away is Zeus is dead. The Sumerian AC attacks should end soon.

========================

The below are the next few cities to build. We have no settlers and must start a couple to work on these spots. I see the priority as follows:
1) Red dot to get the silks behind our lines.
2) Blue dot to deny Persia horses and to get incense behind our lines. Razing the capitol of Persia won't hurt either. We should get at least a couple more workers.
3) Green dot to continue to strengthen the northern front.
4) White dot is a long term spot. We need to explore that area some more to decide for sure. Domination is our most likely win so any additions cities will help.

 

[Zwingli]

I noticed the save is from the beginning of 850AD. Please post at the end of the turn.

The worker movement, and city management (in terms of riot prevention) should be completed. I do tend to leave some units with movement remaining for the next player rather than hitting space bar or fortify in case they want to do rearrangement.

 

[hotrod0823]

850 AD (0): We have no cash and lux tax is killing us. We need a few settlers and after the first round of units complete I will try and squeeze a few in. See knights and mercs being built for the most part with some needed buildings thrown in. Take out a musket and a longbow but lose an MDI. The luxes are become a problem move one unit out of some temple free cities and have to MM for happiness or hire taxmen. Need to secure the silks sooner rather than later.

IBNT: Mongol couters kill 1 elite swiss merc. NO real action in the West.

860 AD (1): Rotterdam builds a merc starts another. Moving towards Parsargardae. Swap delft to a settler, looks like we will need it sooner than I expected. Kill a few random persians and sumrians and clear the way.

870 AD (2): take out 3 longbows but had to divide the units up more than i really wanted too. More mongols coming but we are ready in the east.

INBT: Babylon completed Smiths.

880 AD (3): Suffle units to take Parsar... next turn with some needed artillery support. Kill a few advancing monogols. lower research to get metallurgy next turn with +28 gpt.

890 AD (4): Middelburg builds a market starts a merc. Delft builds a settler starts another. More mercs built and started at various towns. Settler heads north. bomb and attack Parsargadae. Pasargadae is no more.

900 AD (5): Cleanup some advancing Persians and some Mongols. Generally unit free on both fronts. There is a pesky landed crusader but should be okay. MT is due in 17 turns. Finally get a leader while fishing in the East.

910 AD (6): Sumeria pillages our silks. Lose 2 mercs to counters, retreat and regroup in the West. Rush a university in Rotterdam.

920 AD (7): Stack is resting outside of Bactra. Settler is in position at the red dot. More Knights heading West to help with intrusions. Quite in the East as the MOngols have retreated it seams. First signs of Aztecs in a while and they are on knights.

930 AD (8): Maastricht builds a library starts a cannon. Found Tilburg at the Red dot. Some longbows in the area with a few knights coming up from the south for protection.

940 AD (9): Build another settler and a few more mercs. Shuffling a few units around to provide MP and protection. A new settler is heading north.

950 AD (10): More unit cleanup in the north. A settler is heading up. Sumeria just planted a new city. Not much else.

 

[hotrod0823]

Sorry for the lack of detail I was a bit rushed. Tried to give the highlights.

BTW I think we have Persia on the ropes and Sumeria came beggin for peace and was willing to give up tech for it.

Good Luck!

 

[LKendter]

Signed up:
LKendter (on deck)
Greebley
Zwingli
hotrod0823
Meldor (currently playing)

Our general game plan:
1) To target our cities to always be 3 apart tiles. With no armies it is really critical to keep this rule going.
2) Science research must be very aggressive with deficit spending if we can afford it.
3) Try to build the roads before the city to take maximum advantage of the 3 tile city plans.
4) Raze all cities unless they have a useful wonder.

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Additional restriction: No armies

 

[meldor]

I see it and will start on it tonight.

 

[LKendter]

The below is the latest dot-map. Grey dot has been added. Our new priorities are blue dot, followed by gray dot. That third luxury will do wonders for helping our economy. The 30% luxury rate together with $24 in unit costs is killing our research abilities.

Now the next challenge is to speed up the pace of new cities. We own 16% of the land area vs. the Mongols owning 23%.

Babylon has managed to build Sun Tzu and Smith's. I suspect they are number 2 for science. I wonder why we haven't found them yet.