meldor
Deity
I am sorry, I have to go out of town unexpectedly. I was hoping to get to the two SGs I am up in but I can't. Again Sorry.
LK76 - AWE - Pangea, No armies, Random Civ
- Thread starter LKendter
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 20,063
I can't even start until Sunday night. I am going to swap, and hope Greebley finishes closer to when I can play.
================
Signed up:
LKendter (on deck)
Greebley (currently playing)
Zwingli
hotrod0823
Meldor
Our general game plan:
1) Science research must be very aggressive with deficit spending if we can afford it.
2) Try to build the roads before the city to take maximum advantage of the 3 tile city plans.
3) For the most part raze all cities unless they have a useful wonder
Remember 5 to 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Additional restriction: No armies
================
Signed up:
LKendter (on deck)
Greebley (currently playing)
Zwingli
hotrod0823
Meldor
Our general game plan:
1) Science research must be very aggressive with deficit spending if we can afford it.
2) Try to build the roads before the city to take maximum advantage of the 3 tile city plans.
3) For the most part raze all cities unless they have a useful wonder
Remember 5 to 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Additional restriction: No armies
ok, I got it. I will see what I can do.
For research I will finish off whatever we are resarching (steel I think?) and go for Nationalism next.
If I can advance, I will go for taking Sidon back (if it doesn't seem to difficult) and the furs town (highest priority).
For research I will finish off whatever we are resarching (steel I think?) and go for Nationalism next.
If I can advance, I will go for taking Sidon back (if it doesn't seem to difficult) and the furs town (highest priority).
Preturn: Go through the cities carefully and tweek them. Most are in good shape. Move some defense about.
IBT: Lose 2 Swiss Mercs. Lots of Aztec Cav.
1680 AD: Take back Sidon without loss. Attempt to put enough defense everywhere the AI can reach. Sidon still has 10 shields toward wall??? I rush them for 40 gold.
IBT: Bombardment last turn is causing most enemies to retreat. We are fairly heavily attacked in Sidon. We are blessed with the RNG and our infantry are red-lined but live. Walls now are built in Sidon.
1685 AD: Kill Aztec Cavalry and Bombard.
IBT: Lose 2 Swiss Mercs.
1690 AD: Cav will mostly heal this round
IBT: Some attacks nearly lose a Cav on defense. Some landings
1695 AD: The time has come. I use the Artillery to knock the two Infantry in the fur town to 1 hp. Two Cav kill them without loss. I raze the city and replace it with one I built this turn. I place it where it gets all but 3 squares within its borders. I move units onto the 3 so the enemy cannot heal there (they can be moved back when the enemy stack nearby heads elsewhere.
Adjust all towns now we have a 4th Lux.
IBT: Some more landings.
1700 AD: Kill several units and mostly clear our land of landings. One Guerilla survives.
Notes:
Things are very rough. I was able to make progress, but didn't reduce the number of units standing on our borders by any. There are just so many and more keep coming. For a while there I thought I would be losing some cities. The bombardment (had to spread it fairly evenly across the units) and the extra infantry kept this from happening. Our front line has been further reduced so hopefully that will help.
Pollution hit, but I didn't deal with it properly. It needs fixing (several stacks should complete).
We are up to 14 infantry which is really helping. We only have 11 Cav though. In part this is because I concentrated on infantry so we can hold our cities.
The sumerians have about 5? bombers now. Be careful of getting your units all red-lined from Umma. Nearly lost a city this way early on.
I got the furs and recaptured Sidon. Ideal would be to destroy Umma and those bombers.
There is a guerilla near our capitol I wasn't able to kill
Science is MM'ed to 2 turns (Change any scientist and it is 3 turns). Some of the Civil Engineers can go back to scientitsts when we get Civil Engineering.
I had to over-compensate for a the guerilla stepping near the capitol. Our capitol has 48 shields, and can be reduced back to 46 after the current infantry is built.
Harlaam is not happy. An enemy rifle messed up its happiness. This has been fixed.
Gordium had its walls and barracks bombed by bombers. The walls were rebuilt.
We really need Anti-air.
IBT: Lose 2 Swiss Mercs. Lots of Aztec Cav.
1680 AD: Take back Sidon without loss. Attempt to put enough defense everywhere the AI can reach. Sidon still has 10 shields toward wall??? I rush them for 40 gold.
IBT: Bombardment last turn is causing most enemies to retreat. We are fairly heavily attacked in Sidon. We are blessed with the RNG and our infantry are red-lined but live. Walls now are built in Sidon.
1685 AD: Kill Aztec Cavalry and Bombard.
IBT: Lose 2 Swiss Mercs.
1690 AD: Cav will mostly heal this round
IBT: Some attacks nearly lose a Cav on defense. Some landings
1695 AD: The time has come. I use the Artillery to knock the two Infantry in the fur town to 1 hp. Two Cav kill them without loss. I raze the city and replace it with one I built this turn. I place it where it gets all but 3 squares within its borders. I move units onto the 3 so the enemy cannot heal there (they can be moved back when the enemy stack nearby heads elsewhere.
Adjust all towns now we have a 4th Lux.
IBT: Some more landings.
1700 AD: Kill several units and mostly clear our land of landings. One Guerilla survives.
Notes:
Things are very rough. I was able to make progress, but didn't reduce the number of units standing on our borders by any. There are just so many and more keep coming. For a while there I thought I would be losing some cities. The bombardment (had to spread it fairly evenly across the units) and the extra infantry kept this from happening. Our front line has been further reduced so hopefully that will help.
Pollution hit, but I didn't deal with it properly. It needs fixing (several stacks should complete).
We are up to 14 infantry which is really helping. We only have 11 Cav though. In part this is because I concentrated on infantry so we can hold our cities.
The sumerians have about 5? bombers now. Be careful of getting your units all red-lined from Umma. Nearly lost a city this way early on.
I got the furs and recaptured Sidon. Ideal would be to destroy Umma and those bombers.
There is a guerilla near our capitol I wasn't able to kill
Science is MM'ed to 2 turns (Change any scientist and it is 3 turns). Some of the Civil Engineers can go back to scientitsts when we get Civil Engineering.
I had to over-compensate for a the guerilla stepping near the capitol. Our capitol has 48 shields, and can be reduced back to 46 after the current infantry is built.
Harlaam is not happy. An enemy rifle messed up its happiness. This has been fixed.
Gordium had its walls and barracks bombed by bombers. The walls were rebuilt.
We really need Anti-air.
hotrod0823
Deity
Well done on getting that fur city. Glad to see Sidon is our again too.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
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Ouch - Even sooner then I expected. Our tech gap is worse then I realized...
Signed up:
LKendter (currently playing)
Greebley (swapped)
Zwingli (on deck)
hotrod0823
Meldor
Our general game plan:
1) Science research must be very aggressive with deficit spending if we can afford it.
2) Try to build the roads before the city to take maximum advantage of the 3 tile city plans.
3) For the most part raze all cities unless they have a useful wonder
Remember 5 to 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Additional restriction: No armies
Oh, I totally missed mentioning in an early turn that I did get a leader and rushed a third factory in our third most productive city.
Also Sumeria now has rubber.
Also Sumeria now has rubber.
Zwingli
Prince
Everything bordering the red box is within bomber range of Umma. It appears that the Sumerians are building about 1 bomber per turn based on the reports, so they might have 30-40 by the time we obtain flight. Basically, I think we have to raze Umma and the possible Sumerian city at the blue marked spot soon or we're in hot water. The cities in the bombing range aren't that important in terms of production, but our sole source of rubber is quite vulnerable to cratering with both Gordium and Sidon potentially cut off from reinforcements by bombardment.
On a related topic, should we impose any limitations on the use of our own bombers? I haven't had the chance to use them in C3C, but I've heard they are quite overpowered with lethal land bombardment. Perhaps limit the overall number of bombers (~10?) or restrict them from attacking cities. It would seem inconsistent to end up winning based on giant bomber stacks after going without armies the whole game...
Coffee
Cdn Expat
As a part time lurker, I hope you can complete this game without using the bombers lethal capabilites.Zwingli said:
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At this point I have no opinion either way. However, we are so far from flight there is plenty of time to decide.
===================================================
1700 AD
We have a pathetic 11 cavalry, so I switch Rotterdam to cavalry every other turn.
Our 4th best shield city is Maastricht, so I switch it to factory due in 13 turns. We badly need more production.
(IT) I simply watch AI troops move around.
1705 AD
I kill 1 cavalry, 1 knight, 1 rifleman and 1 guerilla. (4-0)
I disband 6 cannons in Silk and Salt to rush an artillery unit. I disband the bucket
I get a leader who rushes a factory in Haarlem. Maybe not the best city, but it had no shields in the queue.
I turn science down 10% for the last turn of Nationalism.
(IT) The Mongols assault Middleburg and lost 1 rifleman, 1 MDI and 1 longbow. (7-0)
Sumeria bombs out road connection for the furs.
1710 AD
I kill 2 cavalry, 2 guerillas and 5 riflemen. I lost 1 precious cavalry, and had a scare as another dropped to just 1 hp. (14-1)
I cleaned up a 1 cavalry landing behind our lines. The damaged Sumerian stack by the furs is destroyed.
I reconnect the furs and start working on multiple road paths to them. I get to reset all the cities again.
Now that we can draft I acquire 5 few conscripts from the totally corrupted cities. I hope to get some exposed 1 hp longbows to promote them.
(IT) The Sumerian bombers are really being a pain as Zwolle is pounded losing at least walls, barracks and a pop point.
The Mongols assault Middleburg again. The Mongols lost 2 longbows, 1 MDI, 2 Riflemen, and 1 Keshik. All but the Keshik was at Middleburg. (21-1)
1715 AD
I kill 1 guerilla, 2 longbows, 2 cavalry, 1 knight and 1 rifleman. (28-1)
(IT) Nothing but some injured units from the Sumerian bombers.
1720 AD
I kill 1 cavalry and 3 riflemen. (32-1)
I used up to much bombardment power pinging stacks.
I get another leader that rushes a factory in Arnhem.
(IT) I killed 1 longbow, 2 Keshik and 2 rifles on defense at no cost. (37-1)
Pollution hits the iron hill by Rotterdam.
1725 AD
I kill 4 riflemen, 4 infantry, 1 guerilla and 1 cavalry. (47-1)
I get yet another leader from an attacking infantry. I have to review all are cities to even figure out where to use him. No city makes sense this turn, so I save him for Delft next turn.
I promote a cavalry.
(IT) Another good defensive turn as the AI lost 3 MDI and 3 Guerillas. (53-1)
Once again the bombers are pain as Gordium lost population and barracks. There were serious landings by Amsterdam. Factory production is Maastricht was sabotaged.
1730 AD
I kill 3 infantry, 1 cavalry, 3 riflemen and 3 guerillas. I lost 1 cavalry. (63-2)
I promoted 1 cavalry to elite.
The first crisis of the Amsterdam stack is fixed. The only loss was a turn of infantry production. Silk and Salt is out of danger. Dealing with the Amsterdam crisis leave to many uninjured AI units around.
New Amsterdam is formed. Delft is the latest city for a leader rushed factory. Production is going way up.
(IT) I lost 1 infantry, 1 conscript infantry on defense. I killed 5 cavalry on defense. (68-4)
Gordium was a scare and is left with only mercs for defense. Rotterdam starved due to units walking on a tile.
Silk and Salt got hit with propaganda.
1735 AD
I killed 2 Keshiks, 1 guerilla, 3 infantry and 4 riflemen. (78-4)
(IT) I killed 1 infantry, and 2 guerillas on defense. (81-4)
Once again bombardment is a pain as Samara lost its barracks, and Leerdam lost population.
1740 AD
I killed 3 infantry, 1 rifleman and 1 tank . I lost 4 cavalry. (85-9)
I nailed several airs units. I went this turn after I noticed a transport with escorts enter the city. Several naval units died. I gain ZERO workers.
I used that money to upgrade 2 mercs to infantry as Tilburg may not survive without it.
Our pitiful worker force has to try and clean up 2 pollutions spots.
(IT) I lost the exposed cavalry that razed Umma. (85-10)
We are attacked by just a single Sumerian bomber.
1745 AD
I killed 3 cavalry, 1 guerilla, 2 jaguars, 5 riflemen and 1 infantry. (96-10)
I promoted a cavalry to elite for killing a jaguar.
(IT) Leerdam lost a pop point to bombardment, but no AI attacks.
We still have just another annoying landing by Amsterdam.
1750 AD
I killed 5 cavalry, 2 Keshiks, 3 riflemen and 4 infantry. (110-11)
I promote 1 cavalry to elite.
Would you believe the leader fest continues? It has one turns worth of shields invested, but I rush a factory in Middleburg.
Summary:
At the start of my turn we had 11 cavalry, 13 artillery and 14 infantry.
At the end of my turn we had 12 cavalry, 21 artillery and 26 infantry.
The big problem is still lack of cavalry. The other categories improved even if some are conscript infantry. The good news a lot of factories came on-line.
Despite an awesome kill ratio we are still stretched to the limit. Marines can show up any turn, and we still have our core coastal cities without defenders.
The units in Leerdam and Leiden are to direct the bombardment to the cities, rather the chewing up our developed tiles.
The unit in Amsterdam is to try and stop the AI from landing there and screwing up every other turn infantry production.
I wouldn't covert any more cannon to artillery via disbandment. While the artillery count went up I am feeling short of bombardment units overall.
Signed up:
LKendter
Greebley (swapped)
Zwingli (currently playing)
hotrod0823 (on deck)
Meldor
Our general game plan:
1) Science research must be very aggressive with deficit spending if we can afford it. Please - NO taxmen.
2) Try to build the roads before the city to take maximum advantage of the 3 tile city plans.
3) For the most part raze all cities unless they have a useful wonder
Remember 5 to 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
Additional restriction: No armies
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/LK76-1750AD.zip
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Some photos from the front:
Yellow line is the blockade that is keeping the AI away from the furs.
Red line is the path of the Babylon assault.
I can't figure out where the troops hope to get to.
White line is the area we need to develop for backup pathways to the furs.
With our pitiful worker force I haven't been able to spend much time there.
AI infantry haven't helped.
This is where I see the next expansion.
If you are wondering why the Mongols:
1) Rifleman, not infantry for defenders.
2) Enough nearby cities to hopefully hurt Mongol production and slow the unit overload down.
All the new factories are helping to increase our production.
The next goal is to slow down there production.
Taking 3 cities down would help.
3) We badly need more workers, and 3 more towns to raze will help.
4) We need to develop our core cities at the borders.
A worker "safe" zone will help to further improve OUR production.
I hate having core cities with undeveloped tiles.
Yellow line is the blockade that is keeping the AI away from the furs.
Red line is the path of the Babylon assault.
I can't figure out where the troops hope to get to.
White line is the area we need to develop for backup pathways to the furs.
With our pitiful worker force I haven't been able to spend much time there.
AI infantry haven't helped.
This is where I see the next expansion.
If you are wondering why the Mongols:
1) Rifleman, not infantry for defenders.
2) Enough nearby cities to hopefully hurt Mongol production and slow the unit overload down.
All the new factories are helping to increase our production.
The next goal is to slow down there production.
Taking 3 cities down would help.
3) We badly need more workers, and 3 more towns to raze will help.
4) We need to develop our core cities at the borders.
A worker "safe" zone will help to further improve OUR production.
I hate having core cities with undeveloped tiles.
Good turn, Lee. Excellent leader luck too. I agree with your game plan. The mongols are actually the biggest civ even though they do not have a tech lead and the only ones ahead of us in score. Hitting them now seems best. I would hit them soon as well. They could get Rep Parts any time now and may have rubber. I also agree that getting our current front line advanced so we can improve the eastern cities will help alot.
We are slowly gaining ground on the power graph. Looking at the culture graph, I think that Sumeria and Babylon are mobilized. That will be really hurting them as they can't build non-military buildings. I noticed Sumeria is modern, but they hopefully can't build the UN anymore than they could build TOE. With the larger number of factories, I think going for Hoover makes sense.
I would start a prebuild in The Hague for TOE. It can build it in 16 more turns if we switch it now. This would make Rotterdam best to start a prebuild for hoover which would be built in 19 more turns. I think Hooever is worth it for the overall gain from all the towns with factories.
I notice you didn't rush any coal plants? The Hague especially could have used one at 37 shields. Ah well.
I am a bit worried about the reduction in our cannon especially after seeing how deeply enemy units have penetrated our lands. I hope this doesn't cost us.
We may want to consider starving by 1 and getting the temples faster in Sidon and Gordium. Border expansions will help.
We may even want to build an explorer to drive back the darkness. If we can find key resources, we can target them. Perhaps in a a town that will take forever to build anything.
Do we want an Infantry on our Saltpeter? It would annoying if Babylon pillaged it. Any idea on where those units are heading?
We are slowly gaining ground on the power graph. Looking at the culture graph, I think that Sumeria and Babylon are mobilized. That will be really hurting them as they can't build non-military buildings. I noticed Sumeria is modern, but they hopefully can't build the UN anymore than they could build TOE. With the larger number of factories, I think going for Hoover makes sense.
I would start a prebuild in The Hague for TOE. It can build it in 16 more turns if we switch it now. This would make Rotterdam best to start a prebuild for hoover which would be built in 19 more turns. I think Hooever is worth it for the overall gain from all the towns with factories.
I notice you didn't rush any coal plants? The Hague especially could have used one at 37 shields. Ah well.
I am a bit worried about the reduction in our cannon especially after seeing how deeply enemy units have penetrated our lands. I hope this doesn't cost us.
We may want to consider starving by 1 and getting the temples faster in Sidon and Gordium. Border expansions will help.
We may even want to build an explorer to drive back the darkness. If we can find key resources, we can target them. Perhaps in a a town that will take forever to build anything.
Do we want an Infantry on our Saltpeter? It would annoying if Babylon pillaged it. Any idea on where those units are heading?
Zwingli
Prince
Aside from the (Sumerian?) tanks it looks like we are doing better. I think I'll get a roving explorer out to extend our terrian knowledge another 3 tiles.
Got it.
Edit: Crosspost. If Sumeria has gone modern, we will have to look out for Mech Infantry and TOW in the near future with Modern Armor potentially not far behind. Hopefully we can locate one of their critical resources.
Got it.
Edit: Crosspost. If Sumeria has gone modern, we will have to look out for Mech Infantry and TOW in the near future with Modern Armor potentially not far behind. Hopefully we can locate one of their critical resources.
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It took almost our whole worker force to cleanup 1 pollution square on a mountain with them tied up for several turns. We simply can't afford the pollution from coal plants.Greebley said:
I think the clean production boast from Hoover is the ONLY way to further expand production. We are suffering from a severe worker shortage. For an AWE game we have very little in the way of free workers. If we can pull of a move on the Mongols I really hope we can get a few more. We still have semi-productive cities not fully mined or railroaded.
It couldn't hurt - the challenge will be to find one to spare. Even turn a review of every danger spot and adjusting to it. The Merc was an attempt to discourage them if they were heading for the Saltpeter from an earlier turn.Greebley said:
If I had thought of this I would have starved Sidon. There is a culture dead zone about Sidon that the AI is using to heal. I would love to close that gap.Greebley said:
Right now they would be finishing the out the Industrial Age. That means MARINES! Getting an infantry in even core coast city is critical.Zwingli said:
I never thought I would see an AW game where we could get nuked.
lurker's comment:
First of all, great game, guys! This has been far and away the best read in the SG forum (IMO) in quite a while. Fun stuff.
But, why are you allowing yourselves to be so worker-poor? All those undeveloped tiles, not only in the core but in the outlying regions are really hurting you, in lost production and lost specialists (for outlying cities). Just because it's always war doesn't mean you should allow yourselves to forget mega-principles like developing the land properly and having sufficient workers. I would highly recommend changing the lack of workers one way or another (with rails, it's usually not too hard to set up a worker factory that produces a worker every turn...OR set all outlying cities to workers to get approximately a worker/turn by having ~10 cities do a worker every 10th turn). But you NEED optimized tiles, doubly or triply because the AI has good tiles to work, too.
Arathorn
First of all, great game, guys! This has been far and away the best read in the SG forum (IMO) in quite a while. Fun stuff.
But, why are you allowing yourselves to be so worker-poor? All those undeveloped tiles, not only in the core but in the outlying regions are really hurting you, in lost production and lost specialists (for outlying cities). Just because it's always war doesn't mean you should allow yourselves to forget mega-principles like developing the land properly and having sufficient workers. I would highly recommend changing the lack of workers one way or another (with rails, it's usually not too hard to set up a worker factory that produces a worker every turn...OR set all outlying cities to workers to get approximately a worker/turn by having ~10 cities do a worker every 10th turn). But you NEED optimized tiles, doubly or triply because the AI has good tiles to work, too.
Arathorn
I agree with this. If we are so worker poor we can't afford to build the one or two coal plants to get TOE and Hoover faster because of pollution, then we are way too short. Also if we are planning on pushing our front line forward on the mongol front, we will have a lot of tiles that need improving. Add in the fact we want to road to the north, then we will want more workers for sure.
The disadvantage is that workers cost gold, but I think for advancing the front, then we break even as we currently have front line cities that that are working unroaded tiles (the non-corrupt cities to the E). The additional roads will bring in more gold so we can afford the new workers.
At the very minimum, we should have enough workers to clear pollution off a mountain square in a single turn.
The disadvantage is that workers cost gold, but I think for advancing the front, then we break even as we currently have front line cities that that are working unroaded tiles (the non-corrupt cities to the E). The additional roads will bring in more gold so we can afford the new workers.
At the very minimum, we should have enough workers to clear pollution off a mountain square in a single turn.
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A big part of the worker and developed tiles is the AI. Almost all the tiles that need work have AI units next to them. During the last round worker actions were not driven my most important place to develop, but by safe zones. The number of AI units throughout our lands is killing of productivity way more then the lack of workers.
The big problem this game is the worker model for AW broke. Normally you can build a decent starting worker force and then grow the force by free workers. Our free worker pool this game is still pathetic.
The trouble is I have no idea what city to build workers in. If we build them in the science cities we fall even further behind in science as the number of scientist drop and / or are mismanaged. I don't want to face mech infantry to long without tanks. We are still stretched big time for military - cavalry in particular - and I can't fathom delaying a single military unit. I agree we need more workers, but we are trapped between a rock and a hard place. Any new paid workers kill our science rate (especially if built the scientists cities) and delaying even a single infantry could see us lose a core coastal city that IMO is the kiss of death.
The game has been the ultimate in guns vs. butter headache. We still haven't built a single stock exchange and lack other buildings in many cities. We have been so busy fighting for our lives those niceties such as workers and buildings have been put on hold.
The big problem this game is the worker model for AW broke. Normally you can build a decent starting worker force and then grow the force by free workers. Our free worker pool this game is still pathetic.
The trouble is I have no idea what city to build workers in. If we build them in the science cities we fall even further behind in science as the number of scientist drop and / or are mismanaged. I don't want to face mech infantry to long without tanks. We are still stretched big time for military - cavalry in particular - and I can't fathom delaying a single military unit. I agree we need more workers, but we are trapped between a rock and a hard place. Any new paid workers kill our science rate (especially if built the scientists cities) and delaying even a single infantry could see us lose a core coastal city that IMO is the kiss of death.
The game has been the ultimate in guns vs. butter headache. We still haven't built a single stock exchange and lack other buildings in many cities. We have been so busy fighting for our lives those niceties such as workers and buildings have been put on hold.
For cities that are not hopelessly corrupt, any that are max size and positive food can build a worker. You spend 1 turn at the smaller size an then are back to where you were.
For corrupt towns, what we can do is switch some scientists that don't affect the number of turns to get a tech over to food, and then use that food to both grow and get workers. This will get us more science and more workers in the long run without slowing the number of turns we get a tech. (My previous turn these scientists were changed to civil engineers as we needed aquaducts. I think we got most of the aquaducts we need now).
Irrigating the corrupt towns can get us growth on stalled cities.
We have barely enough workers for our current needs, but not enough if we are going to push back the Mongols with new cities.
In any case I think we can slowly add more workers to our forces without impacting the number of turns to get a tech.
Mongols also might not have as much Culture which should mean we get more free workers when we raze the towns (Someone I trusted said the number of workers depends on number of non-resisting citizens which in turn depends on culture - can anyone verify this?).
For corrupt towns, what we can do is switch some scientists that don't affect the number of turns to get a tech over to food, and then use that food to both grow and get workers. This will get us more science and more workers in the long run without slowing the number of turns we get a tech. (My previous turn these scientists were changed to civil engineers as we needed aquaducts. I think we got most of the aquaducts we need now).
Irrigating the corrupt towns can get us growth on stalled cities.
We have barely enough workers for our current needs, but not enough if we are going to push back the Mongols with new cities.
In any case I think we can slowly add more workers to our forces without impacting the number of turns to get a tech.
Mongols also might not have as much Culture which should mean we get more free workers when we raze the towns (Someone I trusted said the number of workers depends on number of non-resisting citizens which in turn depends on culture - can anyone verify this?).
