LK78 - Korea - Slow cooked deity

[Greebley]

Good question.

We can Chivalry faster - It is only 1 tech past Feudalism while Invention is 2 and Sumeria still has an extra iron to trade, so knights seem doable.

I think that I would choose Knights for the above reasons and the power of a speed two unit in general.

 

[LKendter]

I reluctantly agree with the additional town. I has no overlap that I can see for a cultural flip risk. However, 3 two-tile apart cities is really pushing ICS. I really oppose the ICS style of city building.


Signed up:
LKendter
Microbe
Greebley
Kaiser_Berger (currently playing)
Meldor (on deck)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

 

[Kaiser_Berger]

I've got it, will get to it later.

 

[Greebley]

Hmm...

I would never considered this ICS. I think we even have a full 12 squares per town to work which would mean we don't even have what I would consider a dense build (9-11 tiles per city). I don't like putting a city in a workable tile of another city when I can avoid it, but we are only doing that once. To me ICS would be to build 4 more cities in our lands.

I will often but cities 2 apart in the N, S, E, W direction. I guess I have started thinking in "civ distance" and this is 3 to me.

Anyway, that is a total aside. The town does let us build the FP which we need. It also adds a goodly number of squares in our territory so it is actually a real addition to our empire and not just worth building for number reasons. In an single player game I would build it even if it didn't get the FP as otherwise those squares are ones we could be working but are not. I feel we need to get all the squares we can into our empire.

I am leaning toward going for Chivalry for knights and a war vs the Hittites again, but not ignoring infrastructure, either. A middle path as it were. Other options would be the same idea with longbows, or simply concentrating on our economy and living with our current lands. My primary reason for wanting the war is that Hittites are mining the lands that lead to the water so there is a good chance we will have no irrigation without a war.

 

[LKendter]

To me ICS would be to build 4 more cities in our lands.

I agree, and that is why I used the phrase pushing ICS. I did agree to the city, but I think my message failed to come across correctly. To me a 2 tiles apart city on a regular basis is ICS. 3 cities are getting close to a regular basis.

What I was trying to get at is I don't want to hear another city in our lands after this city. The only way I want to hear more cities is if we acquire addition territory.

I general don't like adding more cities to the existing core such as Pyongsong. Adding this city hurts the rank corruption for the better developed city of Pyongyang.

I would still go for the FP in Pyongyang. Any additional cities we add will all be to the south and helped by the FP being built there.

On the knight / longbow debate my gut feeling says knights as we can get them quicker. In additions, the knight to cavalry upgrade cost is only 30 bucks. That is the best bargain for the offensive upgrade path IMO.

 

[Kaiser_Berger]

Preturn- We look alright.

IT- Sumeria lands and MDI.

T1 860

Since all our alliances are up, I decide to go to peace with Sumeria. But before I try that, I'm going to whack that MDI for good measure. An elite horse kills it, no leader. Sumeria wants 420g for peace. I think i'll hold off for a turn and see if I get a chance to kill more troops.

IT- We enter a Republic.

T2 870

We have a nice income of +72gpt now. I rush a settler out of Cheju.

IT- Sumeria lands two knights

T3 880

We lose two horses, but we kill the knights. No leader luck. I sign peace with Sumeria for around the same price as before.

IT- zzz

T4 890

I up lux to 10% to keep Inchon from rioting. It also get everyone else back to work.

IT- zzz

T5 900

Taejon is founded. I switch Pyongyang from harbor to FP(20)

IT- zzz

T6 910

I notice the Hitties are starting to take it to the Sumerians.

IT- Greece and Germany sign peace.

T7 920

Not much.

IT- Sumeria completes Shakes.

T8 930

Nothing.

IT- Sumeria promptly loses Hamburg, the city in which they built Shakes.

T9 940

Nothing new.

IT- zzz

T10 950

Nothing.



Summary


It's looking like Sumeria is under control. The Hitties might get a bit stronger, but hopefully nothing we can't handle

 

[LKendter]

Signed up:
LKendter (on deck)
Microbe
Greebley
Kaiser_Berger
Meldor (currently playing)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

 

[meldor]

I see it and will start tonight.

 

[meldor]

950 AD (0)
We get Engineering from the Hittites for 625g and 48gpt.
We get Fuedalism from German for Engineering and 6gpt.
We get Chivalry from Greece for peace and 15gpt.
I set our sights on Invention next with a lone Scientist. I then adjust the cities to prevent any rioting, even with lux still at 10%

970 AD (2)
(I)Sumeria demands 8g and I cave.

1020 AD (7)
Sumeria wants an alliance, no thanks.
(I)Russia declares on Sumeria. The Sumerians start Newton's.

1040 AD (9)
(I) The Russians start Newton's.

1050 AD (10)
Nada.

 

[microbe]

The Sumerians start Newton's.

Yep, one age behind.

 

[LKendter]

@microbe - are you checking LK79? I don't understand why no got it for that one.

====================================

Signed up:
LKendter (currently playing)
Nothing comes due Mon to Thur with plenty of time, but they show up for the busy weekend.

Microbe (on deck)
Greebley
Kaiser_Berger
Meldor

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

 

[LKendter]

1050 AD
I fix Pyongsong so that it can grow. The hardest thing to do is speed up population growth. Taejon is suffering from cultural overlap, so I switch it to temple to end this problem. A flip would be a disaster for our pathetic empire.

There isn't a thing I can to do help our research deficit. To get to a useful research rate we need all our payments to end to other civs.
(IT) Greece and Sumeria ally vs. Germany.


1060 AD
I send Russia our reconnected wines for $225 and tm. With Navigation our there we should keep a trade route even if the Hittites declare war. We need to do something to help our weak position.
(IT) The Hittites complete Magellan's Voyage.


1080 AD
The Hittites brought water to our borders. [dance]
(IT) Russia completes Newton's.


1100 AD
(IT) Sumerian and the Hittites sign peace.


1110 AD
I ship our only furs to Russia for Dyes and $7/turn. Every little bit helps.
(IT) The FP is completed.


1150 AD
Russia is now more of a threat then Sumeria. I ship Sumeria $80/turn and horses and get invention. I send Germany Invention for Theology and $60. That is probably one of our last 2-fer deals. Germany is just too weak to get much more tech that we can use.

Greece must be researching invention as that along with $500 can't get Education from them.

Our first longbow is ordered up.

==========================

Summary:
We are still alive on paper. However, this is one of the worst holes I have even seen.

As soon as the buildings complete build more longbows. We don't have a lot of time before the Hittites have rifles.


Signed up:
LKendter
Microbe (currently playing)
Greebley (on deck)
Kaiser_Berger
Meldor

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/LK78-1150AD.zip

 

[microbe]

Preturn: I raise lux to 20 and fire many specialists. We are making +4gpt instead of +9gpt, well worth it.

I buy gems from Sumeria for WM+10gpt+12g, and lower lux to 10, making +9gpt.

reneg peace with Greece and get 40g. Our 15gpt deal expired but still cannot get Education by Invention.

1190AD: Russia and Sumeria make peace. Sumer has been losing.

1210AD: upgrade 3 cats.

I switch the marker in Inch'on to aqueduct to let it grow.

We have 3 longbows and am still producing more of them. Hittie has musketmen and some leftover knights. Russia doesn't seem to have cavs. Don't know when we can attack Hittie, but I guess we want to get gunpowder first and hope we have saltpeter.

 

[LKendter]

Signed up:
LKendter
Microbe
Greebley (currently playing)
Kaiser_Berger (on deck)
Meldor

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

 

[Greebley]

Ok, I got it.

 

[Greebley]

Preturn: So I guess we decided to go with longbows and not knights. My worry is that we can't reach the first town in the first turn and will be hit by the hittites before we attack (and the units will also attack from the town and will thus be better defended, so we have to have many more units before we attack). I would have kept the horse and purchased iron, but that would have been expensive of course.. Since we only have defense 2 units, I assume gunpowder is our top priority in tech.

Early: We get our wines back. I waffle back and forth about what to do with it and finally decide to trade Wines, 8 gpt, and 656 gold to Russia for iron and horses. I just don't like our situation with longbows. We don't have any chance of making a trade for gunpowder for 9 more turns at least (when we get our cash back, and given our small size resources are cheap (this price is barely enough to get us to doubtful on the next tech.

Mid: Hittites have Cavalry. I don't remember if this was reported before.

Late: Get Territory Maps for all but the Greeks and Germany.
Hittites and Russians have rails. I check and Russians have Rifles already.

Notes:
We had no chance of getting an attack force before Hittites had Rifles or Cavalry. They may have already had those techs on the start of the turn.

I wouldn't buy Gunpowder immediately. We have 9 horsemen. I think it worth delaying to get them all upgraded. We have 4 knights and 4 longbow as well.

I had two thoughts on the attack:
1) Take the first 2 towns right away. To do this we need enough knights to take out Ulsan and Hattusha. We should investigate the cities right before we are ready to make sure we have enough troops to take out both towns plus extra to take out the cavalry (our Trebuchets can bombard any cavalry nearby first from the town and then we can use the slower longbows who can't reach the towns.). The hittites have a rail that should allow us to get to the Hattusha in one turn. The only difficulty is that we can't get currently get muskets there in one turn, but if the Hittites Rail the right square it will be solved (so buy territory maps before the attack).

The drawback with 1) is that we have to have the troops to survive the cavalry counter. We may be able to Ally with Russia to lessen this effect (we then just need to defend our cities better than the Russian ones).

2) Build a forest on the one square required to keep cavalry from attacking Pyongyang on the first turn. Defend Taejon heavily with Muskets and/or Pikes. When the Cavalry charge abates, we go on the offensive. The biggest disadvantage is our advance will be blocked by incoming rifles that are hard to kill.

I think we will need Russia's support in this war. I hate to give them more land though.

3) Get an ROP through the Hittites and bring all our troops as close to Moscow as possible. Attack it with everything and Hold it for one turn to get all the missing techs (note that we want to use our knights to attack from distance 2 away, otherwise every troop will be in the capitol since they can attack us from the city).

4) No attack; just keep putting money in research and try to catch up. My gut feeling is that this will not succeed without more land.

There may be other plans we could try, but these are the ones I can think of. I am not sure which is my favorite. I feel we need to make some attack however. I kind of like 1 or 2 better in that it increases our lands. 3 though does catch us up in tech which would allow better units, so it is hard to say. The Hittite counter attack worries me though I feel we may have to ally with Russia which I do not like. They are going to be both a domination and culture threat.

 

[Greebley]

Here is a map of the Russian and Hittite (first turn) attacks:

 

[LKendter]

I would have kept the horse and purchased iron, but that would have been expensive of course..

I looked during my turns and we simply couldn't get it. I was up to $35/turn available and they still send no. That is why I went with the longbow plan.


We just can't get a turn with good news...

=================

Signed up:
LKendter
Microbe
Greebley
Kaiser_Berger (currently playing)
Meldor (on deck)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

 

[Greebley]

Interesting. Our wines must have been worth something then to Russia. No suprise there

The iron/horse deal was the only way I could see at getting full value on the wines. That was the other reason I did the deal. All other civs other than the Hittites and Russia are in great danger of extinction(except maybe the Greeks which have no harbors) I don't think we want any Lux deals with them. The Hittites already had wines.

If we can gain land and/or capture the Great Library, we have have a chance I think. We should not trade for Education IMHO. Tech trades that head toward Cavalry. I think keeping the GLib option open is a good idea.

I do agree it would be nice to get a break. This has been a very rough game.

 

[Kaiser_Berger]

I see it, will get to it tomorrow.