I can say for sure that late game emancipation/cottage spam is better than caste. Rep vs. US depends on needs--when I play for space when I switch from rep to US depends on how strong my hammers/tech is. I'll almost always have US before the end.
Lonely Hearts 4b - Imperial Frederick
- Thread starter InvisibleStalke
- Start date
Jet-
were you down 10 techs to none or did you have anything to trade?
the key in this type of game is to go deep into the tree in one path--keep going until you have something to trade.
Of course the AI will have way more tech since you haven't been able to trade yet. In my game I was down about 10 net techs to the first 2 AI I met (and I don't think they were the most advanced). However, I had 2 techs on them--paper and phil. So I traded initially for compass, MC, mach, and calender + gold and maps. Then I bulb edu and when I'm almost to lib trade for all the rest I need--monarchy, drama, music, feud, guilds, banking, eng, optics, and even gunpowder. So instantly I'm caught up and then I get lib--astro and am even with the leaders.
I also settled 2 eng and I think 2 sci--I only burned an eng on the Glib.
were you down 10 techs to none or did you have anything to trade?
the key in this type of game is to go deep into the tree in one path--keep going until you have something to trade.
Of course the AI will have way more tech since you haven't been able to trade yet. In my game I was down about 10 net techs to the first 2 AI I met (and I don't think they were the most advanced). However, I had 2 techs on them--paper and phil. So I traded initially for compass, MC, mach, and calender + gold and maps. Then I bulb edu and when I'm almost to lib trade for all the rest I need--monarchy, drama, music, feud, guilds, banking, eng, optics, and even gunpowder. So instantly I'm caught up and then I get lib--astro and am even with the leaders.
I also settled 2 eng and I think 2 sci--I only burned an eng on the Glib.
InvisibleStalke
Emperor
The problem I always see with the SE in the late game is lack of production. Ironic because it is touted as a high production option. The extra hammers and rush buying from US is extremely powerful - and I am used to exploiting it. I do want to see what the other side is like and this might be the perfect game for it.
I am hoping I can win by diplomacy and many of the techs along that path can be lightbulbed. I have at least two good production cities - not really enough for a space win on Emperor but enough to build the UN.
Military production can come from drafting.
Dirk1302
Deity
Spoiler :
InvisibleStalke
Emperor
Dirk1302 - thats an incredible time for the AI. I have never seen that on Emperor before - I would love to know what went on for them to get this time.
I'll be updating my game soon - but I am still quite nervous about this one. I was first to Philosophy which usually discourages the AIs a bit from gaining this tech and sets them on another path. Hopefully that means Liberalism is still on.
I think the danger with this game is that your really need to be fairly advanced in at least one area to be able to trade at all. Gaining liberalism may be crucial to be able to start trading - more so than early optics perhaps.
I'll be updating my game soon - but I am still quite nervous about this one. I was first to Philosophy which usually discourages the AIs a bit from gaining this tech and sets them on another path. Hopefully that means Liberalism is still on.
I think the danger with this game is that your really need to be fairly advanced in at least one area to be able to trade at all. Gaining liberalism may be crucial to be able to start trading - more so than early optics perhaps.
Dirk1302
Deity
I've been very busy lately, i'll tell you more about it tomorrow. Hope to have some time then to play the Roosevelt challenge too.
My guess is that on emperor it is an either or--if you go for optics you will lose lib. I barely won lib but ignored all the bottom tech tree techs.
InvisibleStalke
Emperor
I am about to hand in the towel on this one. Am around 1000 AD. Liberalism was taken by the AIs. The AI who took it (guess who) also scored Nationalism and Consitution while I was researching Liberalism and took who knows what as the free tech.
Add to that no miltary and low production and I think I have blown it. I am tempted to retry using slavery, scientists just in the capital and cottages everywhere else. I suck at a peacetime SE - (wartime SE not so bad).
Add to that no miltary and low production and I think I have blown it. I am tempted to retry using slavery, scientists just in the capital and cottages everywhere else. I suck at a peacetime SE - (wartime SE not so bad).
InvisibleStalke
Emperor
InvisibleStalke
Emperor
Dirk1302
Deity
This is what happened,
Actually knowing this early worked to my advantage, winning a lib race often requires a change to caste system. In this time i don't have slavery which is very bad on an isolated start where you have to expand at an healthy rate and use slavery for whipping in the neccessary buildings. So i decided to take focus off research for the moment and build settlers and more workers asap.
At 1000 AD the the tech situation looks horrendous,
MM had 440 years for teching since liberalism, he must be doing things like democracy and replaceable parts now. I might be 15/20 techs behind at this point. Still deep beelining can save me here, if i can catch up with the rest i can trade my way up quicly.
My empire seems to be getting online now,
Also Hannibal, Mansa and Wang Kon all have different religions and Hannibal doesn´t like his neighbours. It´s always easy to bribe Mansa himself, if i ever get a tech he doesn´t have i´ll know what to do with it.
Kennigit
proud 2 boxer
Well, I've given it a shot. I think i started out well, but am doing really bad right now. I used this game to try my first SE ever- but I was stupid and didn't get GL in time, and I lost the oracle by acouple turns. I didn't get to snag a religion, because out of the great people i've had I haven't had 1 great scientist yet to pop philo like I planned to... (I think I got 2 prophets, 1 artist from parthenon, and 2 engineers (the second engineer must have only been around 10% odds). I feel that I'm very slow in tech and no one has met me yet.
Here are some saves if you're interested. I'd also appreciate some advice from some of you SE folks out there. The problem that I've had is not having any happiness. I feel now that the general and better approach to an SE is to use philosophy to pop techs + use hereditary rule, not representation.
Here are some saves if you're interested. I'd also appreciate some advice from some of you SE folks out there. The problem that I've had is not having any happiness. I feel now that the general and better approach to an SE is to use philosophy to pop techs + use hereditary rule, not representation.
InvisibleStalke
Emperor
I am having another go at this. I'm up to 1200 AD and am way behind the AI in techs. I am hoping to be able to trade with the bottom of the pack - the top AIs are at least 8 techs ahead.
I am only running specialists in my capital - the rest of my empire is working cottages. I have constitution and optics. I am hoping that a couple of religions will spread to me and I can go for culture - go to democracy, rush build temples and run caste system for my capital to try and pop late game artists. Very iffy though.
If I don't get another religion, I will still aim for democracy and try either diplomacy or space. I still think I have lost, but I want to find out if a come from behind win is possible.
SpockFederation: This is a really tough map - not so much because of your starting position, but the combination of AIs and the resources they have make it very hard to keep pace. My thinking is that an SE actually sucks for an isolated start.
Your capital is so food rich that it is easily capable of producing all your great people without any other city getting a look in. So run it as a GP farm definitely. But if the other cities aren't going to produce GP, then you have too look and say why would I run specialists there. You have a lot of grasslands jungle which gives poor returns in an SE before biology (it takes a lot of pop just to feed a couple of specialists but you can run lots of cottages). The cottages perform well under a lower happy cap.
I presume you got pyramids. You probably lost GL because you went for Oracle - you can't give the AI time in this game.
I am only running specialists in my capital - the rest of my empire is working cottages. I have constitution and optics. I am hoping that a couple of religions will spread to me and I can go for culture - go to democracy, rush build temples and run caste system for my capital to try and pop late game artists. Very iffy though.
If I don't get another religion, I will still aim for democracy and try either diplomacy or space. I still think I have lost, but I want to find out if a come from behind win is possible.
SpockFederation: This is a really tough map - not so much because of your starting position, but the combination of AIs and the resources they have make it very hard to keep pace. My thinking is that an SE actually sucks for an isolated start.
Your capital is so food rich that it is easily capable of producing all your great people without any other city getting a look in. So run it as a GP farm definitely. But if the other cities aren't going to produce GP, then you have too look and say why would I run specialists there. You have a lot of grasslands jungle which gives poor returns in an SE before biology (it takes a lot of pop just to feed a couple of specialists but you can run lots of cottages). The cottages perform well under a lower happy cap.
I presume you got pyramids. You probably lost GL because you went for Oracle - you can't give the AI time in this game.
Kennigit
proud 2 boxer
I've been cottaging up my otherange cities, as I know that 1 gp farm outweighs others for great people. My problem was representation, which i ran for far too long and didn't have the happiness resources to use. I'll try the rest of my game sometime soon, but I'm pretty sure if I go to my 2000 bc i'll fair infinitely better. If I do have to go back, I'll make sure I go for oracle a little earlier, getting me col and just 1 away quick philosophy pop. This will basically guarantee 1 of those religions, a great gp farm in capital using pacifism, and I'll use more popping over directly getting science from specialists.
InvisibleStalke
Emperor
The problem with early Oracle is that you risk not getting an early engineer. And an early engineer can guarantee you the great library.
But the plus with getting Oracle and COL is you will probably get two religions. If you can also research monotheism and pop a prophet you have three which is enough for a culture win.
But the plus with getting Oracle and COL is you will probably get two religions. If you can also research monotheism and pop a prophet you have three which is enough for a culture win.
Kennigit
proud 2 boxer
IMHO just getting commerce set up is as good for cultural vics as any. Just let foreign religions come in so you can build the pagodas and all.
InvisibleStalke
Emperor
That puts you in the situation I am in now. Open to foreign religions but none have arrived yet. I am still hoping. Possibly Astronomy will help.
I played a little more and I'm just running away with it. The capital is OCC like with 4 setted GP, and there's a lot of real estate. I don't have much army, but enough for defense, and there really aren't psychos over there anyway. Interesting game but the start I think was just too strong. The capital was huge, the rest of the continent not so great but the southern part had a lot of territory so late in the game it gets really strong.
