Longbow vs Chu

[dopingman]

You need terrain knowledge if you want to be successful at war regardless what units you use. For LB's it's not enough though, because they can't target all exposed tiles in 2nd ring due to bug.

This should be standart CiV knowledge if you play the game . CKNs require far more tactical knowledge then the basic tactics with which you can deploy LBs effectivly. The range bug requires just a bit of brains to know where you can shoot and where not and affects every archer unit with range, so no surprises here.

 

[The Pilgrim]

This should be standart CiV knowledge if you play the game . CKNs require far more tactical knowledge then the basic tactics with which you can deploy LBs effectivly. The range bug requires just a bit of brains to know where you can shoot and where not and affects every archer unit with range, so no surprises here.

Eh... are you saying than being familiar with game mechanics (tactical combat in particular) is actually more than being familiar with the same game mechanics plus the knowledge of some units' bugginess? You lost me, mate.

 

[budweiser]

Whats the bug anyway? I dont have trouble shooting Longbows. At least that I know of.

 

[The Pilgrim]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=437132&page=2

Exceptionally annoying bug.

 

[dopingman]

I mean advanced combat tactics like path of retreat, potential damage and how to soak it, where and when to pillage wheras LBs is just shoot and derp and being succesfull with it. Maybe my brain is just used to solving oddities.
In this sense:

Link to video.

The bug is that without the indirect fire promotion the 2 tile range behaves odd and doesn't let you shoot certain obstructed tiles where commen sense tells you that it is possible and the game mechanics are just "NO! U NO SHOOT THERE!"

 

[budweiser]

I cant say I've ever encountered it, but knowing it exists makes me hesitant to use the units.

 

[The Pilgrim]

I mean advanced combat tactics like path of retreat, potential damage and how to soak it, where and when to pillage wheras LBs is just shoot and derp and being succesfull with it. Maybe my brain is just used to solving oddities.

The bug is that without the indirect fire promotion the 2 tile range behaves odd and doesn't let you shoot certain obstructed tiles where commen sense tells you that it is possible and the game mechanics are just "NO! U NO SHOOT THERE!"

It's not game mechanics, it's a bug. And pretty big one if you rely heavily on warring with LB's. So figuring out how the bug will hurt your tactics is maybe enjoyable for you, but I'd prefer to figure out how proper tactics works and use that instead.

 

[dopingman]

It's not a big deal, just on a few rare occasions a "derp, why u no work?". LBs are still a pretty good unit.

Edit: Seems like our opinions differ "slightly" on this matter Pilgrim, can we settle on a agreement that we disagree?

 

[The Pilgrim]

Edit: Seems like our opinions differ "slightly" on this matter Pilgrim, can we settle on a agreement that we disagree?

Sure. We also can settle on an agreement that LB is still a very good unit overall, despite the bug.

 

[Light Cleric]

Yeah, I think altogether it's a matter of preference. They're both solid units, I just prefer the CKN's because they suit me more.

 

[budweiser]

Here's the thing for me: if I move my Longbow, I can still shoot to range 3. If I move my CKN, I lose my special ability.

When I use the CKN, I like to use a mass of them and all move into range at once, next turn you get a double shoot but some will get damaged. But with Longbows, I can move and shoot in the same turn. Just 3 or 4 will clear out the enemy.

They play differently.

 

[The Pilgrim]

Here's the thing for me: if I move my Longbow, I can still shoot to range 3. If I move my CKN, I lose my special ability.

You'll get the payoff next turn by double shot. 3 shots of CKN still do more damage than 2 shots of LB. But you're right, they play differently.

 

[compwiz1202]

And doesn't the Chu have the option of shoot and run like other units get once they have Blitz/Logistics. Sometimes my favorite part is being able to use all my moves even if I attack first.

 

[joncnunn]

And doesn't the Chu have the option of shoot and run like other units get once they have Blitz/Logistics. Sometimes my favorite part is being able to use all my moves even if I attack first.

Yes; but since the Chu normally only has 2 Movement Points * if you move after shooting once, unless its to a roaded tile, you won't be able to shoot a second time.

* A Chu given to Persia via military state has 3 MP during a GA; and a Chu given to Denmark via military state that starts the turn in water can (with Great Lighthouse or Astronomy) disembark -> shoot 2X -> move.

 

[Dogmouth]

I prefer CKN. As others have noted, the extra attacks yield promotions (including range) much more quickly than the LB. Additionally, this bonus experience is synergistic with the Chinese UA (the LB is not synergistic with any other of England's abilities). If you take the honor line, the the +50% experience bonus is multiplicative with the 2x attack experience bonus, yielding 300% experience. When you factor in the Chinese UA, you get insane experience and a veritable GG factory.

 

[Elz Majesto]

I prefer CKN. As others have noted, the extra attacks yield promotions (including range) much more quickly than the LB. Additionally, this bonus experience is synergistic with the Chinese UA (the LB is not synergistic with any other of England's abilities). If you take the honor line, the the +50% experience bonus is multiplicative with the 2x attack experience bonus, yielding 300% experience. When you factor in the Chinese UA, you get insane experience and a veritable GG factory.

Learn something new everyday. Did not know of the 2x exp bonus.

Budweiser, I can tell we share some similar train of thoughts...this buds to you!

 

[compwiz1202]

Learn something new everyday. Did not know of the 2x exp bonus.

Budweiser, I can tell we share some similar train of thoughts...this buds to you!

Actually it's not 2x per attack, it's just that they can attack 2x so they get xp 2x per turn then as long as they attack 2x. The only unit I know with an actual +XP per attack is Keshik.

That's one of the reasons I like to rush to Logistics too is to get the 2 attacks for more XP. As welll as the fact that you can then do attack-move in addition to move-attack.

On a sort of related note, I was trying that Darius infinite Golden Age thing last night and that was nuts constantly having an extra movement being able to move ranged into rough terrain and still attack.

 

[Dogmouth]

Actually it's not 2x per attack, it's just that they can attack 2x so they get xp 2x per turn then as long as they attack 2x. The only unit I know with an actual +XP per attack is Keshik.

Yes, this is what I meant.

On a sort of related note, I was trying that Darius infinite Golden Age thing last night and that was nuts constantly having an extra movement being able to move ranged into rough terrain and still attack.

Try the Incans. Moving into hills and attacking on the same turn is their SOP.

 

[Light Cleric]

On a sort of related note, I was trying that Darius infinite Golden Age thing last night and that was nuts constantly having an extra movement being able to move ranged into rough terrain and still attack.

Try it with Catapaults Persia is possibly the only civ I build them with. Being able to move in + set up + attack on the same turn makes them a hundred times more useful.

 

[Mesix]

Try it with Catapaults Persia is possibly the only civ I build them with. Being able to move in + set up + attack on the same turn makes them a hundred times more useful.

They are also good with Denmark. When attacking from the coast, you can move, disembark, move again, set up and fire all on the same turn!