budweiser
King of the Beers
Not having read the thread, I would say its highly doubtful that the Egyptians actually built The Great Pyramid and its ridiculous to say its primary purpose was a tomb. Egyptologists would take umbrage with this point.
Looking at Civ for my dissertation, can you help?
- Thread starter Meryt Amun
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blackcatatonic
Queen of Meme
Based on what?
Let me ask you this. Do you believe there were Hebrew slaves in Egypt? Do you believe these slaves were forced into hard labor to construct public works?
Based on the fact that this is a whole wide universe full of aliens.
Not to say there are no aliens. I just do not believe they built the Great Pyramid. Are humans too stupid to think and build great wonders for themselves? I think not. The Egyptians were far more intelligent than many people believe them to be.
I feel the exact same way.
budweiser
King of the Beers
Thats irrelevant, I am talking about the Giza Pyramid, which I don not believe was built by Egyptians. The math is too perfect. I also believe that the distances between stars in space are too far to travel.
The Egyptians will tell you that the people that lived there before them were demi-gods and the ones before that were the Gods.
Man has been on Earth for a very long time. The Sahara desert turns green every 20,000 years or so based on the wobble of the Earth's axis. These are scientific facts.
Nothing is irrelevant. To think so is your first mistake. The reason I asked was to see if you believed they were there at some point. I know they had nothing to do with the Giza pyramid. Sometimes what people believe tells you a lot about them. I was just feeling you out.
Now back to what I believe...I do not believe building the Great Pyramid was beyond them. The Egypttians had tools they used for surveying, which allowed them to lay out straight lines and right angles for reference points, used when building structures. They also used their knowledge of the stars to help them with their architectural projects from very early on. If I was to guess, hmm, that would be around 3000 BCE.
At that point in history they were way ahead of their time in astronomical knowledge. The study and knowledge of constellations they attained, helped immensely to get structures into exact position, or as close to that as possible.
One thing you should remember, since you mention gods. Is the fact that they built these monuments to line up with the point in the sky, where they believed heaven was, so the Pharaoh could ascend there. If the gods had built them like you say, wouldn't they know where heaven was already? There would be know guessing involved.
Do you believe Moses split the Red Sea?
Gucumatz
JS, secretly Rod Serling
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Nothing is irrelevant. To think so is your first mistake. The reason I asked was to see if you believed they were there at some point. I know they had nothing to do with the Giza pyramid. Sometimes what people believe tells you a lot about them. I was just feeling you out.
Now back to what I believe...I do not believe building the Great Pyramid was beyond them. The Egypttians had tools they used for surveying, which allowed them to lay out straight lines and right angles for reference points, used when building structures. They also used their knowledge of the stars to help them with their architectural projects from very early on. If I was to guess, hmm, that would be around 3000 BCE.
At that point in history they were way ahead of their time in astronomical knowledge. The study and knowledge of constellations they attained, helped immensely to get structures into exact position, or as close to that as possible.
One thing you should remember, since you mention gods. Is the fact that they built these monuments to line up with the point in the sky, where they believed heaven was, so the Pharaoh could ascend there. If the gods had built them like you say, wouldn't they know where heaven was already? There would be know guessing involved.
Do you believe Moses split the Red Sea?
Hear hear nokmirt!
We know so much about burial structures in ancient Egypt that we can literally trace the evolution of structures. Zoser's pyramid at Saqqara is such a tipping point where we can see the evolution from Mastabas to Pyramid Complexes. Many complaints about the construction of the pyramids I believe can be juxtaposed upon earlier building styles to see probably how they did so.
I don't want to go all anti-ancient alien here [Because I am a huge believer in the power of mankind to pull of incredible feats
] but we have archaeological traces of evolution of tools, building styles, materials, beliefs that were later used in the building of cemeteries, etc for over 2 thousand years prior to the Pyramid of Giza that help give logical references of how it was possible
budweiser
King of the Beers
You mean the Reed Sea?
Here is one more interesting fact from the Internet: "The latitude and longitude lines that intersect at the Great Pyramid (30 degrees north and 31 degrees east) cross more of the earth's land surface than any other lines, thus the pyramid is located at the center of the land mass of the earth."
Who ever built that must have had detailed maps of the earth's coast line, all of it.
There are cities made of perfect stone work in South America that could not be duplicated today. They date back 15,000 years. That is way before Egyptian Civilization. Gobekli Tepe predates Egypt by several thousand years. There is stone work SW of Egypt in the desert dated back 8,000 years.
The timeline of 2500BC for the Great pyramid just does not make sense. Compare it to all the other crude pyramids that the Egyptians made and you can theorize they were immitating the work of the 'Gods' who built the Great Pyramid.
Now, what about the Sphinx? Its head is much smaller proportion than the rest of its body. As is someone had carved that part out from an pre-existing structure.
Here is one more interesting fact from the Internet: "The latitude and longitude lines that intersect at the Great Pyramid (30 degrees north and 31 degrees east) cross more of the earth's land surface than any other lines, thus the pyramid is located at the center of the land mass of the earth."
Who ever built that must have had detailed maps of the earth's coast line, all of it.
There are cities made of perfect stone work in South America that could not be duplicated today. They date back 15,000 years. That is way before Egyptian Civilization. Gobekli Tepe predates Egypt by several thousand years. There is stone work SW of Egypt in the desert dated back 8,000 years.
The timeline of 2500BC for the Great pyramid just does not make sense. Compare it to all the other crude pyramids that the Egyptians made and you can theorize they were immitating the work of the 'Gods' who built the Great Pyramid.
Now, what about the Sphinx? Its head is much smaller proportion than the rest of its body. As is someone had carved that part out from an pre-existing structure.
That's where you lost me.
budweiser
King of the Beers
Thats fine, the is lots of information on The Internet. Some good some bad. If you are so inclined, type in the words 'giza pyramid pulse pump' and you will find some interesting reading and you can choose what to believe.
I am saying that I do not believe they were capable of building it. They swear up and down that it was a tomb for one of their pharrohs for gods sake.
When Napoleon conquered Egypt, he went alone into the Chamber of the King. he came out visibly shaken. They asked him what happened in there. He replied, "If I told you, you would never believe me". As far as I know he took the secret to his grave.
Gucumatz
JS, secretly Rod Serling
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If you are referring to Tiwanaku and Puma Punku in S. America - then yes they are impressive - but many of the beginning structures which were began (possibly only - dating is heavily disputed) 15,000 years ago also had gradual progression to larger and larger (and more monumental) structure.
Heck almost anywhere in the Americas you go, you can see previous layers of architecture on top of one another with little nuances of evolution.
Puma Punku is an excellently carved structure. However while it is old, it is not particularly tall, wide, nor did it last long as a cohesive structure. And one can see evolution of buildings for thousands of years which eventually led to cultures like the Inca.
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As for the fertile crescent and Gobekli tepe - sites like Jericho/Chatalhoyuk/Gobekli tepe that are 8,000 years + old are impressive... but once again it can be seen that they were evolutions of structure over time. It not like the knowledge came out of nowhere.
There are DOZENS of sites within Gobekli Tepe that show multiple variations of the now famous temple that were built and changed over time. We also have evidence of growth of population leading to changes in sites like Jericho and Cahtalhoyuk
There are just so many instances of evidence to disprove nearly every ancient alien theory that can be found on the web with facts - and those that can't yet can often be deducted by actually listening to what ancestors of a culture thought and by future discoveries.
Heck almost anywhere in the Americas you go, you can see previous layers of architecture on top of one another with little nuances of evolution.
Puma Punku is an excellently carved structure. However while it is old, it is not particularly tall, wide, nor did it last long as a cohesive structure. And one can see evolution of buildings for thousands of years which eventually led to cultures like the Inca.
===
As for the fertile crescent and Gobekli tepe - sites like Jericho/Chatalhoyuk/Gobekli tepe that are 8,000 years + old are impressive... but once again it can be seen that they were evolutions of structure over time. It not like the knowledge came out of nowhere.
There are DOZENS of sites within Gobekli Tepe that show multiple variations of the now famous temple that were built and changed over time. We also have evidence of growth of population leading to changes in sites like Jericho and Cahtalhoyuk
There are just so many instances of evidence to disprove nearly every ancient alien theory that can be found on the web with facts - and those that can't yet can often be deducted by actually listening to what ancestors of a culture thought and by future discoveries.
budweiser
King of the Beers
I do not believe in aliens. I said I believe the distances are too great to travel. I do believe that Western civilization is wrong about the age of man. Sometimes they even lie. I believe we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg. Moderns humans have been around for 100,000 years, plenty of time to rise, fall and rise again. We went from flight to the moon in less than 100 years.The sahara desert turns green every 20,000 years. This is a huge clue.The Inca believed that the earth was destroyed four times, once by fire, once by water, etc. A super volcano erupted 70,000 years ago and possibly reduced human population to a few thousands. On and on and on...
Exactly the Sea of Reeds. When I wrote it I was thinking of the Charlton Heston movie, when the Egyptian chariots are held back by a pillar of fire.
Like Pesticator's post below I do believe the Egyptians built it. Saying that though, you're theory is very interesting. There was another I heard when I was in school. About how somewhere along the line it was believed that the Egyptians made it to South America. Supposedly on rafts or some type of small oared ships. Since, I have not learned anymore elaboration on the story. Of course, there is no known evidence to back any of that that up. Still I do not believe it to be impossible. I do know that Egyptians did want their influence spread far and wide. South America though?
I don't want to go all anti-ancient alien here [Because I am a huge believer in the power of mankind to pull of incredible feats
Yes indeed Gucumatz. We know many plausible explanations on how things were done. Human ingenuity is amazing.
Petiscator
King
This discussion is quite interesting, Budweiser, I never thought in that way. I still think that the Egyptians built it, but your suggestion is really really interesting. I'll sure do some research after that.
budweiser
King of the Beers
One way to win Civ V is to build a space ship and visit the nearest star, Alpha Centauri.
Gucumatz
JS, secretly Rod Serling
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Ok apologies then I took it that way.
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And I admit it is an interesting hypothesis what you say. But there will never be enough evidence to support it. But there will always be suggestions.
Really anywhere in the Americas you go you will get traditions/legends of the world having undergone multiple cycles [Normally 4 - also same with the Maya too and is enshrined in the Popol Vuh (Aka the Mayan Bible)]
Super Volcano destruction is interesting - and I am assuming you mean the Jakarta incident. What if a Super Volcano were to erupt today - IE Yellowstone? Would civilization be so put back into a "dark age" that it would lead to a different cycle? I don't think the numbers are there to support that - but genetically our variation is much less than many other species - which suggests catastrophes we aren't aware of.
But there are plenty of widespread animals with much wider diversity than we used to have back then - suggesting whatever catastrophes didn't reach all of them either and probably shouldn't now.
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If we were too small of a population before the Super Volcano - I doubt then there would have been extensive civilization during that period. And when we competed with Homo Erectus, Neanderthals etc. is even less removed once you get beyond that time - making it sort of doubtful [to me at least] that there would have been much time for distinct cycles like those.
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I believe in cyclical/linear time to a degree as well - but I just can't get behind the idea of monuments like Giza being relics of past memory from previous cycles.
There are always interesting tidbits out there. You bring up Egypt once being much more fertile than it was - and I believe a lot of people who argue about humankind's monumentality having existed longer than currently accredited use the Sphinx to mention particles on it show that the climate it was originally constructed in was one of frequent rainfall [It was carved right from stone at Giza, but there are explanations to refute that]
Also random tidbit - the Nile used to run across Africa to the west as well - I am not sure though when the western portion of the Nile dried up. Interesting discussion we are having here though
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Alright didn't see post regarding no more OT - however, it was clarified Bud wasn't talking about Ancient Aliens so on technicality we weren't post his second to last message
Now there going to have to change things a bit. In order to build the spaceship you'll have to be the civ that built the pyramids!
Aside from my little inside joke. You brought up a bunch of points that made me stop and think. I may not believe these things, but my mind is open to the endless possibilities. BTW thank all of you for a great conversation, while we all are waiting for the new patch.
Moderator Action: ...ahem...last warning!
Thank you, J. I have merely wanted to ask whether or not the dissertation of Meryt is finished. And now I seem to have necromanced the thread into a heated nonsense discussion. And this isn't even OT.
Folk, if you really want to discuss this "topic" any further, please take it to OT into another thread.
Thank you!
Folk, if you really want to discuss this "topic" any further, please take it to OT into another thread.
Thank you!
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