Looks like Civ 6 is done: Kevin called April "final game update"

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by pokiehl, Mar 24, 2021.

  1. Leucarum

    Leucarum Emperor

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    I like 1UPT as it opens up a lot more strategic possibilities... Which unfortunately humans are much better at exploiting than the AI...
     
  2. Kupe Navigator

    Kupe Navigator Emperor

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    I think that is too bothersome and annoying. Say you want to transport a builder+a settler+a military unit to a new land. You have to train a transport+ get them in+ drag them to new lands.
    All for what?
     
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  3. aieeegrunt

    aieeegrunt King

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    They should just merge the concept of districts and tile improvements. The distinction between a farm and a library is pretty arbitrary

    This also streamlines the arbitrary population limit on districts thing we currently have; the district limit essentially becomes the population

    They need to up the movement allowance. Currently it’s an awkward sliding tile puzzle.

    This is an excellent example of tedious micromanagement which nobody misses
     
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  4. Kwami

    Kwami Deity

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    But it's not arbitrary, though. Tile improvements (excepting the unique ones) provide basic yields (food, production, gold). Districts provide advanced yields (science, culture, faith, great people points) and slots for specialists (more advanced yields). Time improvements are one per tile. Districts provide for multiple improvements in a tile. Tile improvements are limited only by available land. Districts are (mostly) one per city. These seem like important, non-arbitrary differences to me.
     
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  5. Zegangani

    Zegangani King

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    If it's a small Map, then transportation Ships are just a burden, that's for sure, but if you play on bigger maps then the sea (ocean/coast) is mach larger, so having a fast Ship that can transport your Units make a big difference. And you don't have to pick each unit and search for the plot you want it to move to (which is tiresome on bigger Maps), but only attach it to the Transport Ship and make only this to move to the plot you want it to go to. If you play on bigger Maps and cross sea very often, then you will know how transportation Ships could be of a releafe.

    If you don't like this kind of Unit management fine, each his/her. I also don't like to micro manage certain Things and wish they were automated and indirectly managable, like Trade Routes (They should be the concern of your Citizens (somehow like Tourists) not you as the Leader, the only thing I want to control about it is: open borders with Civs, make a traderoute agreement, and forbidding TR to/from certain Civs/CSs). But having Tanks for example that emmediately embark into a Ship(?!) doesn't make much sense to me. And easily spamming a continent from the other side of the sea with land Units even less.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2021
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  6. Datgingah

    Datgingah Warlord

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    Well what if they just make a mid-game ship unit that can settle on titles adjacent to coast? This would be close to now initial settlements occurred anyways - plus it reduces the total unit load and encourages the naval game too
     
  7. Zegangani

    Zegangani King

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    Green Districts aren't tied to those restrictions (or population), you can freely build them in a city as much as you want. Improvements could be turned into such. I mean there is actually no much difference between them and the Green Districts anyway, except that you can build 1 of 2 Buildings in Neighborhoods. Which actually would fit to a Farm District Improvement that can hold a Pasture Improvement Building.
     
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  8. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Super Moderator

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    Even the AI could use it, but it would not work well with 1upt IMO.

    it's the exact same thing for improvements.

    say you want a farm

    you have to put a builder in the queue, wait for it to be completed, move it to the plot (hoping there won't be another civ unit there), all for what ?
     
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  9. Kupe Navigator

    Kupe Navigator Emperor

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    I'd rather have a builder build it in a instant than putting in a queue along with grainy and a library.
     
  10. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Super Moderator

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    Do you use the firetuner to spawn your builders on the map ?
     
  11. Kupe Navigator

    Kupe Navigator Emperor

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    no but other way to add farms and other improvements on the queue along with buildings.... I would rather have builders thanks.
     
  12. Republic of San Montuoso

    Republic of San Montuoso King

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    Why so many people want an economic victory? I remember people complaining about DipV in Civ V because it was just an economic victory already.
    Also, if we have to keep different winning conditions, we need to keep them distinct enough, and not only in flavor, and an economic victory would feel, for me, too close to any other else.
    Would an Economic Victory be simply ammassing gold? Too simple, and no victoy condition should rely on one of the main currency of the game (the other one being faith). Faith for CulV is OK, I guess, because faith would be useless otherwise and is way useful than gold. Mali and Portugal would simply be autowin in this situation.
    Extending the Monop&Corp mode, so that if you control enough resources/corporations you win? That's too similar to the Religious Victory.
    Some "Economic Proeminence" towards other civ, where your economy control it? That's just Cultural Victory with another name.
    I don't think we need an economic victory. Gold is not supposed to be an end in itself, it's supposed to be a tool, a tool used for various victory paths (buying units for Domination, spaceports for Science, theater squares/great works/GWAM for Culture, diplomatic favors for Diplomacy... only Religious Victory cannot be achieved through gold). For me, asking for an "Economic Victory" makes as much sense as wanting a "Production Victory". Production is the base of the game, gold is omnipresent, keep them like that, as tools useful for everyone but not an end in themselves.

    All the discussions about "removing builders or not", and I can only think about Humankind where, indeed, there are no builders/workers and everything is built in the city. In fact, the production queues in HK was truly amazing in its philosophy: everything is built in the city, units cost pop (which makes sense), and Wonders/Projects can be built with multiple cities at once, lumping together their productions to end it faster. I really liked it.

    There were discussions about how the cities might feel disjointed, and how wonders seems sometimes to take too much room. I thought about it some time ago and what I proposed in my head was this:
    • Make a distinction between City Districts and Rural Districts (like in the City Lights mod IIRC). City districts must be built adjacent to the city center or another city district (to keep the natural expansion of the city), while rural districts can be built everywhere.
    • Wonders: true, some wonders seems too massive. The Eiffel Tower seems too big, but on the other end the Ermitage is indeed the size of a district, and Broadway is literally a district. So what no divide them? Have two kind of Wonders: District wonders and Tile wonders. Each City District would have the possibility to have one District Wonder (we could also, with this situation, bring National Wonders in the game): Eiffel Tower, Cristo Redemptor, Casa de Contractacion, Great Library... Some might hav some restriction (the Apadana must be in the Capital, the Bolshoi in a Theater Square...). Tile Wonders would work as current wonders, taking up a whole tile: the Oxford University, Boardway, the Biosphère... Of course, since Tile Wonders would be bigger, and with possibly more restrictions, they could be more potent. But it would add a nice distinction and more appealing cities visually.
     
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  13. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Super Moderator

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    And that's fine, same with transport ship.

    Management is a part of the game, some micro-management will always be required unless you automate everything and stop playing, just watch an AI battle royal, but as with other elements of the game, people have preferences about what they'd like to manage and what they'd prefer automated, either for immersion or interesting decisions.
     
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  14. Kupe Navigator

    Kupe Navigator Emperor

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    no it is not the same. You don't get the "instant transportation" with transport ship.
    However with builders you DO get instant improvement. What is instant about transport ship? It is adding unnecessary control.
     
  15. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Super Moderator

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    10 print "Builders are not spawned instantly"
    20 goto 10
     
  16. Kupe Navigator

    Kupe Navigator Emperor

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    yes but you get what you want via builders. However you don't get what you want with transport ship. For builders you get your end-goal-weather it is farm, mine or UI like Great Wall or what.
    However with transport ship moving your units is NOT your end goal... unless you like having your units in random places. No you have to then move them in your new lands and either attack other civs or found your cities. it just adds unnecessary part towards your end goal.
     
  17. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Super Moderator

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    The goal is to move them over water, it's a quite simple goal. They also remove some micromanagement during the movement over water as you can move 1 units not 3 or 10.

    It's the same with builders, they add unnecessary part toward the end goal (building them, moving them)
     
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  18. Kupe Navigator

    Kupe Navigator Emperor

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    no that is NOT your end goal. What I mean by end goal is the final result of your action- for example when you have created a farm you often don't do any further action with it and only use your workers to create for farm. The farm is a final result. Not so with transport. You don't leave your units after crossing a body of water. you need to move them around to either create a city or attack another civ.
     
  19. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Super Moderator

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    Ha, okay, I guess. And tomatoes are not apples, I agree.

    But both are micromanaging. Or fruits.
     
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  20. civac

    civac Prince

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    Unit transportation is merely where 1UPT most obviously shows its downsides. I don't like the embarking nonsense mostly for aesthetic reasons admittedly.

    @Kupe: You are severely overrating the amount of micromanagement moving units by ship requires if you allow stacking. If you transport one settler it's more clicking. For a settler and a worker it's already kind of a wash unless transportation is over only a few tiles. For a settler, worker and garrison the transport ship already wins.

    Take your example of a naval invasion (assuming units are already loaded). 1. Move ships to coast, 2. Select all land units with CTRL + Click 3. Move them onshore. That's 3 mouse cliks and a hotkey. The amount of effort this takes in Civ6 is not remotely comparable. Of course, assembling the fleet is somewhat annoying but it is reusable once stacked. In Civ4 you can also set waypoints for newly produced units to autoassemble it.
     
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