LotR Modders UNITE!!!

[PCHighway]

I agree with you about the Dwarves, and the hobbits . If you think it is necessary a Númenór civ would be sort of fun. What we do have a problem with though, is the Elves, perhaps we should add some more Civs? Can't go wrong with Rivendel . I could think of some others of course. We can have 32 civs, and adding some under-dog civs that exist just for a fun twist, such as the rangers, wouldn't be a problem to add in a future version, but not top priority. Did you see the edit of my last post? Did you look at that thread? Sween32 might remember, he had some pretty bizarre idea, what with ravens and airplanes . It's not such a bad idea though, a raven could be a scout for Isengard.

I agree with Mrtn, especially about the Ancient civs you brought up... such as the Númenór.

However Isn’t that the way Tolkien spelled it? What about the other words he uses with ‘dots’.

mrtn- But, talk is cheep, when we start doing something, that might change.

Probably not If it does, we should get on our knees and start worshiping Kindred now.

Thanks for the description of Beleriand, GEChallenger. But that points out a problem, should it be a Gulf on the Map, or otherwise? Moreover, just how much sank, I’ll have to take a look at that map site again.

Less Civs? Perhaps, but adding 3 more civs is not going to reduce the quality of any others, or the ones being added. But, we should probably start with as little as we can, add on as we go.

 

[mrtn]

Originally posted by PCHighway
...However Isn’t that the way Tolkien spelled it? What about the other words he uses with ‘dots’. .... But, we should probably start with as little as we can, add on as we go.

The index of names in the silmarillion (english version) has it as Lothlórien. And believe me, I have way more experience than you in reading å, ä and ö.
I only remember Tolkien having ¨over ï and ë.

And I agree about the "work our way up" strategy.

 

[PCHighway]

Agreed, Mrtn.

On a side note, Celeborn, I have made a lot of title screens (change every week ) and back when I had downloaded Eclipse mod (and then later Nobby's) I had made this one. I Could put together a new one to take some slack of your back, but you have created the intro, and probably would know best what to use. If you do, I highly recommend downloading 'ringbearer font'.

The screen shot is really shrunk, can't even make out the giant eagle in the inner picture, thats do to upload size restraints .
[EDIT- New Pic]
It's sort of noobish, for instance I called it 'Lord of the Rings' which brings up the point, what are we going to call the MOD?

 

[Doc M]

That looks very nice, but I think we shuold first make skeleton of game, then worry about details. Will this be strictly LOTR game, or Silmarillion game, or mabe both (there are four ages in Tolkien books, and there are four eras in Civ3)

 

[mrtn]

Originally posted by Doc M
That looks very nice, but I think we shuold first make skeleton of game, then worry about details. Will this be strictly LOTR game, or Silmarillion game, or mabe both (there are four ages in Tolkien books, and there are four eras in Civ3)

I think we have agreed to make the fourth age the future era. And just because there are four eras in original civ doesn't mean we have to use four eras, we can easily use just three.

I think that we should only base it on the second and third ages. This means that we can't have a Eregion civ, but it also mean that we don't have to worry about a Beleriand map. (And we can give some of Eregions city names to the other elves)

Nice screenie! I can see the Eagle.

 

[PCHighway]

I had done that waaaay long ago, when I was playing a different LotR Mod (Eclipse'), I didn't spend time to make another one.

Yes, as Mrtn says, we have decided to start around the coming of men, or sightly before. When technically Men weren't existent at this point, but very soon they would come into being, and start their migration from the East to the West. We should have Four era’s. Divide the 3rd or 2nd into two ages.

I agree about getting the framework started, lets center our thoughts around the 'Men' culture group first, as they will be the easiest to gather units for first.

1. Main Defender. Perhaps Kinboats Germanic Spearman? probably act as a equivalent to the regular Civ3 spearmen.

2. Main attacker. Swordsman? I’m somewhat at a loss for this one.

3. Archer unit 1. We’ll... I was thinking the Archer would do it, and the Heavy Bowman for the elves first line.

1b. Main defender upgrade??? The 'European Spearmen' should do it. This was made by utahjazz7.

2b. Main Attacker upgrade. Lets be honest, we can’t use the Macemen (PtW Medieval Infantry) till the last techs, and only then if we felt it fit with the ‘LotR’ universe. So what should we use here? What else but utahjazz7's European Swordsman .

3b. Archer upgrade? Maybe the Longbowman? Or Kinboats Woodsman\Robin Hood?

I’ll stop here, we need two more to keep things interesting IMO, but just how advanced should we be at the end of the third age? Civ3 Pikemen?

Haven’t' thought about cavalry yet.

 

[mrtn]

Originally posted by PCHighway
...1. Main Defender. Perhaps Kinboats Germanic Spearman? probably act as a equivalent to the regular Civ3 spearmen.

2. Main attacker. Swordsman? I’m somewhat at a loss for this one.

3. Archer unit 1. We’ll... I was thinking the Archer would do it, and the Heavy Bowman for the elves first line.

1b. Main defender upgrade??? The 'European Spearmen' should do it. This was made by utahjazz7.

2b. Main Attacker upgrade. Lets be honest, we can’t use the Macemen (PtW Medieval Infantry) till the last techs, and only then if we felt it fit with the ‘LotR’ universe. So what should we use here? What else but utahjazz7's European Swordsman .

3b. Archer upgrade? Maybe the Longbowman? Or Kinboats Woodsman\Robin Hood?

I’ll stop here, we need two more to keep things interesting IMO, but just how advanced should we be at the end of the third age? Civ3 Pikemen?

Haven’t' thought about cavalry yet.

I think that the Germanic Spearman should be an upgrade from the European Spearman. And not the other way around.
And the Easterners and Southrons should build Numids as flavour units.

I don't really like the Archer, as he has too few clothes. The Babylonian Bowman is better, IMO.

<rant>
I think the use of archers as offensive and spearmen as defensive units is ridicoulous. If you're armed with a stick and sinew arrangement, do you run forward and try to shoot someone, or do you stay hidden, and let them cross that open field? On the other hand, if you have a shield and armor, you might try to cross that field. In my mind archers have always been defensive. </rant>

So, if I can't convince you, then at least I want this easily modded, so I can change it myself. And I feel that the great elven archers are defenders of the elven forests, they don't rush out and conquer.

And about cavalry I think most of it can be made with flavour units. The Wain Riders (Easterners) has the chariot or the war chariot as UU. The Norman Knight is a great Rohirrim. Gondor, at least, should have knights (from Dol Amroth ). The Elephant as a Southron Oliphaunt.

 

[PCHighway]

I agree, but the Germanic Spearmen looks more 'barbaric' even if he looks more advanced... Is that possible ? Should we use the '0' bombardment for archers as well? And just How will we use Kinboats High Elven Spearmen? The elves need a ‘light’ archer unit before the heavily armored one also. Lets try and work out the Men first, then go on to the elves . We need some definitive blueprints, right now we are all over the place.

Lets try it this way.

Men
First Era-
1a.European Spearmen (utahjazz7) Name: Edain militia ???
2a.Tribal Warrior (Yaniv)
3a. Babylonian Bowman (Civ3) Name: Archer\Bowman

Second Era-
1b.Germanic Spearmen (Kinboat) Name: Spearman
2b.Swordsman (Civ3) Name: Swordsman
3b.Longbowman (Civ3) Name: Light bowman

Third Era-
1c. Halberdier- (JimmyH) Name: Pikeman
2c. European Swordsman (utahjazz7) Name: Light Swordsman
3c. Robin Hood (Kinboat): Long Bowman

Fourth Era-
1d. Pikemen (Civ3)? Name: Armored Pikemen
2d.Scottish Warrior (Kindred) Name: Two Handed Swordsman
3d.?? This is where the line is in trouble, in DyP there is (or was?) An alternative archer, maybe Kal-El will let us use that for an earlier one . If not, lets put JimmyH’s Skirmisher for the first archer. And that would upgrade to the Babylonian Bowman.

Ok, I know what your thinking about the Tribal warrior. But hear me out, I can’t find any good medieval swordsman later, I would rather have two barbaric unit when the Men weren’t really powerful, than a out of place (Mace Man\medieval Infantry) later on.

I think that is pretty good for a basic Line, we might want to give Gondor some more ‘advanced’ early units. Maybe let them have the Longswordsman (JH) for a Swordsman\Light Swordsman replacement? Unless someone has a qualm about this, lets try and get the stats down today.

 

[Celeborn]

Middle Earth: Lord of the Mods

i could perhaps use your title screen, but then i'll just need a button less version to work with...

oh and one more thing...

DAMN you and all your long posts, it takes to long for me to read through all of them

but anyway...

I agree with the idea of building the civs up slowly and the most logical to start with (ie easiest) is the Men civs...

tpasmall, that would be good if you can give us the template of your site...

 

[mrtn]

I agree, but the Germanic Spearmen looks more 'barbaric' even if he looks more advanced... Is that possible ?

He looks bigger and stronger.

Do we really need three units per era? What would be their roles? One attacker, one defender, and?

The Archers should be: Archer (Babylonian), Bowman (Robin Hood) and Longbowman. The Longbowman looks more advanced than Robin. The last archer can be a crossbowman (AoE).

The Swordsmen also need better names. Light Swordsman sound kinda sissy, why not call him Fat Free Swordsman?
And calling someone Two Handed implies that everyone else only has one hand.
We can use the Berserk instead of the Tribal Warrior, the swordsmen line don't have to use swords all of them.
Maybe like this: Swordsman, Berserk, European, Scot. With better names, obviously.

And it seems funny to call the Halberdier a pikeman, when he doesn't have a pike. Why not call him Halberdier?

 

[Celeborn]

Gondorian UU= Gondorian Gaurd

more powererfull on defence...

 

[PCHighway]

LoL, sorry about that . But theres a lot to talk about, We should probably limit the pages to 10 then start a new thread, it will get to hard for someone to jump right in, as you can see it is already. And then you can simply quote what we have done and put it in your new first post, so they have all the information there. Or I can type of a guideline post and send it to you if you want.

About this site, I demand we have a thread going on here, or no one will here about us, and I also demand the Full Mod be upload here, it is only fair.

I Have some other Pic's I can send you, along with the Logo. It shouldn’t be to ahrd to find the font, though, just do a search for 'Lord of the Rings Fonts' on google, probably more than just the one I used. You want me to e-mail you the title Screens? It will be a big file.

 

[Celeborn]

hmmm... if you can send me the gudline post it would be good...

how big would the title screen be be(file size)?

of course it will be uploaded and there will be a thread here as well... we need feed back on how to improve it... Beta Testers in a way...

and know a question... can you set the likely hood of a recourse appearing on a random map (ie. so that there are most likely no more than 10 intances of the recource on a huge map)

 

[mrtn]

Originally posted by PCHighway
LoL, sorry about that . But theres a lot to talk about, We should probably limit the pages to 10 then start a new thread, it will get to hard for someone to jump right in, as you can see it is already. And then you can simply quote what we have done and put it in your new first post, so they have all the information there. Or I can type of a guideline post and send it to you if you want.

About this site, I demand we have a thread going on here, or no one will here about us, and I also demand the Full Mod be upload here, it is only fair...

Agreed, on both things. I want to stay here as long as possible, actually I don't really see the need for an extern site.

 

[PCHighway]

Not gonna do it . There is no mention of crossbows anywhere in LotR, it makes us make an entire new reality for the last era, which is unacceptable. The skirmisher is a better idea .

Archers (for men) should be a cheaper unit, that has good attack, and stellar defense with 10+ of them. If you think 3 unit lines is a lot wait till we bring in the cavalry . It won’t be the same way with any other race, but the main idea is a unit with good movement (cav) a good offensive infantry (stronger than cav) a good defensive unit (spearman line) and another unique unit, that offers good bonuses and keeps it realistic (archer). If you don’t want to have unit lines, we can just randomly introduce new ‘specialist\flavor units at will. I suppose the Beserker can’t really be used as a Dwarven unit, but I was thinking along those lines. Why call him Pikemen? Because they actually didn’t come into being until the renaissance, the AoK unit can pass for a Pikemen easily, you can’t see the jagged iron ‘stems’ that they halberdier is supposed to have.
Again, Two-Handed was fine, as AoK\EE\ and numerous other games call the units that, if you don’t like it, we can change it, but it is unnecessary. Remember, I am not putting this mod together, so stop asking me permission .

That reminds me, Celeborn, this is going to be for PtW right?
Good idea about the longbowmen though .

 

[Kindred72]

Originally posted by PCHighway
Probably not If it does, we should get on our knees and start worshiping Kindred now.

You can't do that, heck, I can't even make a "favorite unit creator" list.

 

[PCHighway]

It's to late! I already started

Everyone mentioned you in the thread, I think you just slipped the thread starters mind for a moment.

 

[Celeborn]

yeah ptw would be the port for the mod until conquest comes out...

i think i can get PtW next week so it would be all good

mrtn i think we need an external site, mainly for organizing the various files...

 

[PCHighway]

IMHO it should go like this.
Conscript 3 HP
Regular 4 HP
Veteran 6 HP
Elite 7 HP
Making it all the difference if you have a well trained army (barracks).

Men
First Era-
1a.European Spearmen (utahjazz7) Name: Edain militia
I was thinking of giving this unit 3 defense and 1 attack. 1 movement, yet it gets 1 extra Hp.

2a.Tribal Warrior (Yaniv)
1 Defense, 2 Attack. 1 Movement. 0HP bonus.

3a. Bowman (DyP graphics?) OR Skirmisher (JH)
2 Defense 2 attack, 1 movement. -1 HP - Bombard strength of 2\ Rate of Fire 2\ B. range of 0.

Second Era-
1b.Germanic Spearmen (Kinboat) Name: Spearman
Defense of 4 attack of 1, 1 movement gets 2 extra HP.

2b.Swordsman? (Civ3) Name: Beserker
Defense of 2, attack of 4, movement of 1, 0HP bonus.

3b.Babylonian Bowman (Civ3). Name: Archer
Defense of 3, and attack of 3 AND 1 movement. -1HP bonus.
Bombard strength of 3\ Rate of Fire 2\ Bombard range of 0.


Third Era-
1c. Halberdier- (JimmyH) Name: Pikeman (?)
Defense 5. Attack 2. Movement 1. 2HPbonus

2c. European Swordsman (utahjazz7) Name: Swordsman
Defense of 2. Attack of 5. Movement of 1. 0HP bonus.

3c.Robin Hood (Kinboat): Name: Composite Archer?
Defense of 4. Attack of 4. Movement 1 0HP bonus.
Bombard strength of 5\ Rate of Fire 2\ Bombard range of 0.

Fourth Era-

1d. Pikemen (Civ3)? Name: Armored Pikemen
Defense of 6. Attack of 3. Movement of 1. 3HP bonus.

2d.Scottish Warrior (Kindred) Name: Two Handed Swordsman
Defense of 2. Attack of 7. 0HP bonus. 1 movement.

3d.Longbowman (Civ3) Name: Longbowman
Defense of 5. Attack of 5. Movement 1 0HP bonus.
Bombard strength of 6\ Rate of Fire 3\ Bombard range of 0.


Mrtn, I can understand that you want archers to be the main defenders, but don’t forget, it would look funny to see a sole archer defending a city, they always had a group of swordsmen\pikemen infront of the archers, if they didn’t the archers would be mincemeat. You may think it is insane for a 100 of infantry to run at 100 archers. But it happened all the time, arrows can NOT go through platemail, only crossbows bolts can do that. Archers can be extremely effective if defended by a spearmen group, and this is how I based my stats. With a Bombard rate of 2 and range of 0, that means that if a unit attacks a city, which is defended by an archer and a spearman, the archer would fire two shots, (each as powerful as his attack) before the unit could even get a shot at attacking the spearmen. Just like a catapult does in normal civ3. I think this is realistic, but I await your criticism . Remember, it is only a draft, I expect it to be changed based on your opinions.

Cavalry shouldn’t be as strong as infantry. Perhaps 1 less attack (with the exception of Rohan), but 3 movement with blitz? I have to think about it.

 

[Noldodan]

I have been following this thread somewhat and have now decided to step in and offer my comments on several relatively current issues.

CivIII/PTW/Wait for Conquests: Make the mod on PTW, then make the scenarios after Conquests comes out.

Ages?: 1st-4th.

Strength of Elves: The Elves should start out with higher HP than all other races, but as time goes on, their HP and stats just stay the same, while all the other's races stats go up.

Reading the Silm: I keep my copies of LotR and the Silm in a handy drawer next to the computer, and have read the Silm three times, LotR 6 times.

Civs and UUs: We don't need 16! We just need the main divisions...
Noldor: Elven Swordsman
Fëanorian Noldor: Elven Riders
Nandor: Elven Ranger
Sindar: Elven Archers
Rohan: Lancer
Gondorians: Gondorian Defender
Arnor(ians?): Protectors
Numenorians: Legions of Numenorë
Dwarves of Khazad-Dum: Dwarven Axe-Thrower
Dwarves of Belegost: Dwarven Axeman
Hobbits: Hobbit Slinger
Orcs of Mordor: Olog-Hai
Orcs of Utummno: Balrog
Dunlendings: Berzerker
Southrons: Oliaphaunt
Isengard: Warg-rider

Other units: I may end up correcting and/or suggesting unit titles
and/or stats, but I will just STAY AWAY from animations.