LotR24 - French Menagerie

[Jabah]

I am back, I should be able to play within 48h.

I will post a bit more after opening the game (and re-reading the last pages) tomoroow.

Jabah

 

[T_McC]

I think London is not that bad for Moai. It has 7 water tiles, of which 2 are high food and we want it to be a production city. Putting Moai there will not give us the maximum possible gain from the Wonder, but it will help us in getting the best out of London - and this is what we want.

My problem with putting Maoi in London is that if we do workshop the land tiles we wouldn't work a 3rd water tile until size 13. Without MP that's in the general vicinity of the happy cap so we may not get much out of it. The other reason I don't like London for Maoi is that we should be able to get the HE/West Point combo there.

But I don't have a particularly good suggestion otherwise. Would Nottingham make sense?

 

[Jabah]

Still have not had a chance to look at it and play.
I definitely will be able to do it on Thursday at the latest (but will try tonight).

Jabah

 

[Jabah]

LotR24

T0 - Reorganise slightly to emphatize growth in cities that can grow a lot.

T3
Optics -> Paper

Get GE in Persepolis

Prepare to move to declare in 3t (need to move troops on the other side of nothingham to be able to move next to city after declaring)
Upgrade 3 semi-vet praetorians

Check what were the idea for GE (can't find any). Keep it until Paper and might rush University of Sankore

T4
Whip Carrack in Uzbek
Nottingham is stealing tiles from York now (and London later)


T6
Sury asks for Polytheism, so cheap but I keep it (1st i was not sure I would be able to declare and 2nd we could give it for peace if needed)
-> get pleased instead of friendly (as if it will matter)

T7
Declare on Sury



IBT
Lose a samurai protecting the stack at Ligurian after killing 7 attacking units
Sury got a GG in Nottingham for that.

T8
The damaged Hwacha bombard, the other 5 attack (1 dead, 4 retreat), the zerk, samurai and praetorian finish the job at 99%+.



Catherine wants CS to go to war with us, since she will discover it in 6t I was thinking of accepting, then notice that she is happy to take Compass instead, so I gave Compass not to have to worry about Sury reinforcement. (neither Saladin or Cathy were ready to just cancel OB with Sury).

At Nottingham, with now 65% defence and no hwacha ready thing are not as good, lose a samurai at 30% barely scartching the Skimirsher (with only 2 melee units, I was hoping to be able to do enough damage so the other Samurai/zerks would finish the job). Postpone the attack since we have now less than 20% until Hwasha/spy can do their job.

T10
Paper-> Education (20t at stable)
Rush (GE) University of Sankore in Persepolis (not too sure that was a good idea, but it should be good when we have the all continent for us).
reduce research to 0% for a while to get cash.

T12
AP build far away for Boudhism. (other continent).

After sailing for a long time, meet justinian (and Isa as well) - Score leader !!



Give him 40g to please him (not that he was upset), sign OB. ""Hope that is not consider a exploit

Isa is a vassal of Justinian (same tech), nothing signed with her

T14
Sury gets a GP at Nott, hope he will settle

Meet Gilganesh
Give token cash, OB and buy his WM for 200g (to speed the reconnaissance and don't go into dead end, and hopefully get Magellan)



Ok 2nd continent is huge and Justinian is scary...
can see where the 3 last AIs are, and will whip a carrack on East Coast next turn (chop into it the*is turn)

T15

National Epic inPersepolis
Qin get a GG (so he is at war)

--- We have the circum-navigate bonus ---

At Nottingham (1skimi, 3prat, 1vulture, 1dog, 1impi defending)
5 EP to short to incite revolt, 3 hwacha bomb, 1suicide to deal massive collateral damage.
1st Zerk against the only not melee unit win at 56%
3 samurais win at 80-85%
1 Zerks wins at 70%
1 prae wins at 70%
1 gaelic loses at 70%
And vergingerorix gains some easy Xp at 99% to capture (still a few extra units left in case)

(sorry no picture)

Price for having taken our time is a settle GG and GP

Sury still doesn't want to give Philo for peace.

EP back to other continent.


Notes

Research should be back to 50% (stable) for either Education 18t or something else ?

Persepolis will have a GP in2t either GScient (80%) - GEng (18%) - GSpy (2%).
What will we do with any ?
(Spy probably send to other continent to steal technology as they are way too weak in espionage defence)
GA could be an idea as we need to change (back?) our civic (CS and probably OR).
Slavery was not too bad as otherwise getting carracks would have taken ages as we have almost no production cities on the seaside.

Other continent
A carrack will be build next turn in Rheims.
Depending on how the last AIs are (at war, and religion?), landing there and holding a beach head will be quite tricky. and probably not possible in a very shrt time (the known AI there have all our military techs + feudalism).

On our continent now.
We are starting to get some WW. Peace could be a good option.
Then
1. either build some infra (thinking other continent)
2. or declare on Saladin (no good troops) or Cathy (busy but CS in 2t) ?

Now that we have the Uni of Sankore, maybe convert more city and build some temple/monastry as they are quite cheap

Tech levels



Jabah

Save --> http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/819/LotR24_AD-1050.zip

 

[T_McC]

So I guess Refar is up!

I don't think we need to push into Sury's core (yet) as that would give us a much longer front vs. the Russians/Arabs in the inevitable next war. Since we bought Cathy in on our side I also don't think we'll see (m)any troops from Sury so GG-fishing could take a while (we need 12 more XP IIRC). So I think we should prepare for peace.

Philosophy appears to be a monopoly tech (I have no idea why Sury hasn't traded it around, as he is behind many techs) so if we want that for peace we should first put a few turns of research into the tech to lower the price. Sury is currently offering at least 200 gold for peace, but maybe he would really offer 500-600 and simply can't yet. How long we hold out depends on how much the next player can tolerate the redshirts that are appearing, although recall we are in HR and can probably shift MP a bit to alleviate that particular problem.

I think the next war is with Sal, probably to the death. So long as Cathy and Sury are slap-fighting Sal can't buy any help and should fold quickly. He is researching Feudalism, so the war either happens immediately so we can get Berzerk/Samurai vs. primarily Skirmishers and Axes/Swords or we research to Guilds and prosecute the war with Cataphracts. Note that with Stables, London would build triply-promoted mounted units and Paris would be 1 XP short of triply-promoted units. Probably worth taking a couple of Impis for a spin around Sal's land to see the troop mix in his border cities before making a decision. If we don't see a lot of Cho-Ko-Nus ...

For the next GP: If a GS, I propose an Academy in Susa (Paris may be better right now due to the Bureaucracy bonus, but Susa will be much better long-term); if a Spy, I'd propose a Golden Age; if a GE, might as well save for a wonder ... not sure what is available soon (Hagia Sophia would be useful). For the next GG ... I think we can live without the uber-medic for now ... a 3rd Instructor means level-4 infantry from London ... a 2nd Instructor means level-4 mounted units from Paris. I would lean towards London in anticipation of a 4th (or further) Instructor combined with a Drydock and/or West Point. Being able to build Blitz Destroyers (13 XP) suggests a game-winning strategy if we get to Combustion 1st ...

Nottingham would be OK for Moai, but haven't really checked the Iron/Cow/Whale site for viability. The FP can go somewhere in Sal's lands, and Wall Street in Mecca (or wherever the Hindu shrine is).

With the AP being Buddhist, trade with the other continent will be spotty until we drop our state religion. Since we intend to attack the other continent anyway, there's little penalty to keeping our religion. I see no need to invade pre-Astronomy unless we just want to capture an island city to be spiteful. Eventually this game will turn into a 1:1 research race between us and Justinian, and I think we can win that.

We also still have 2-3 more sites to settle peacefully: Something near the Stone (probably in-land), Cows/Iron/Whale, and something NE of London. When I can load the game I can propose some dots to bat around.

 

[Refar]

Huuh... I somehow missed the notification about Jabahs post... Anyway i got it now, but can't play sooner than in about 12 hours.

 

[T_McC]

Looked at a few old screenshots ...

I like the Iron/Cows/Whales site for Moai as it looks like that city would only want to work 1-2 land tiles besides the specials. Nottingham has a lot of good land tiles to use despite the overlap with London.

In the SW:



I like the yellow dot as a production city. It would have to take the Rice from Ligurian, but then should have enough food to work the hills and stone. It could also borrow the Horses from Kazan when needed.

And in the SE:



This picture is a mess, but I propose the red/white square. The city would be able to work the Rice and 8 grass cottages without stealing tiles from our other cities, and would likely be working the Marble most turns.

 

[Jabah]

agree with the SE spot (in fact I even put a "city?" sign onthe map there).

We will need more stronge coastal producers otherwise building a navy will take ages.

On the Maoi statues, what is the 2nd national wonder we want in Persepolis (not Oxford since it is planned in Susa?) because it could be an option as it has several (3?)seafood + lake and lots of coast.

For the very unlikely GSpy we should check EP needed to steal technology from other island has I think it would be worst possibly 2high level techs.
For the even more unlikely GArtist (due to National Epic) -> Golden Age without a doubt.

Jabah

 

[Arathorn]

Woohoo on the circumnavigation bonus. That's huge. It'll make our eventual transcontinental assault much easier.

I'm not seeing the logistics of a push into Saladin. Isn't he on the other side of Cathy? How would that work? At least Sury doesn't require splitting our core (as I'm reading the map -- hope to check the save later today).

Roster:
LKendter
Jabah -- just played
Refar -- UP NOW
T_McC -- on deck
Arathorn

Hopefully everybody is back on track from the holidays, so we can resume a more normal schedule. Hope everyone's were at least as joyous as mine.

Arathorn

 

[T_McC]

I'm not seeing the logistics of a push into Saladin. Isn't he on the other side of Cathy? How would that work? At least Sury doesn't require splitting our core (as I'm reading the map -- hope to check the save later today).

Arathorn

You have it backwards. We now share a border with Sal (our ex-English, ex-Khmer cities) and the balance of the Khmer cities are behind Cathy. So or army is already in position to strike Sal.

 

[Refar]

Sal is teching Feudalism (6 turns)

We are a bit short on Hwachas, Many of our troops are on his boarders but some need healing, many are not upgraded yet.

He has some ~130 Gold for trade, so he probably can upgrade some of his archery units to Ch-Ko-Nu, when he see us approach...

It is possible, that a DoW now will make his Research on Feudalism take a bit longer, but we cant take him out before he he is ready to field longbows. I think we could take Medina and maybe one of the citeis in the North before he reaches Feudalism, That would harm him, but not take him down completely...

Waiting, building some more siege weapons, tech and then attack with Cataphracts, would mean the attack on Sal delayed by maybe 30+ turns...

Attacking now we can harm him enought to be able to take him down even after he fields longbows, but it will probably cost us more troops...

So... What's our verdict on Sal ? Because if we want to attack soon, it must happen basicly on my second turn (as sson as the stack near nottingham is helaed)

Spoiler :

I am a bit torn, as delaying the war now would mean delaying it for quite some time. But i worry a fast war might come us too expensive...

 

[T_McC]

If you feel we are short on Hwachas then I'm comfortable with waiting for Cataphracts to attack Sal. We don't have to be in a hurry to kill him. Later, he'll have LBs, but he's not going to get any bigger and he can use his time to further spread Hinduism for us. Sal appears to be playing about 3-4CC as Najran and Basra are useless for production and most of the cities off-screen south are rather icy. We'll be able to build a lot more in the interim than he can, so time is on our side.

We only need Feudalism as a pre-req for Guilds, so we should have our first Cataphracts within 20 turns. If we put a few turns of research into Philosophy in an effort to get the balance of the tech for peace, I think we would be able to make a trade for Feudalism (so it wouldn't be wasted research) as I believe other civs already have the tech.

Since we already have the circumnavigation bonus we can make some decent money selling/swapping WMs. If we're the only ones with Paper we don't lose anything by trading now instead of waiting to meet the other civs. Maybe we also want to trade for Theology to run Theocracy? That way we can build level-4 Cataphracts in London without another settled instructor.

 

[Refar]

I stoped after 12 turns, as there are a couple of things i cant make up my mind about. I.E. i think it;s time to go after Sal, but the team should have the chance to discuss that.

Turns 250 - 262 / 1050AD-1170AD

Turn 250: - I send the Impis that had movement poits left on the inherited turn towards Sal to take a look.
We have 3 Hwachas East from him, and one in Uzbek. It's a bit light... But he looks very soft and his only Iron is in Medina. Taking his Iron would mean no Samurai and no ChoKoNu... He still got Copper tho, so he could make Zerks, once he got CS.
- Set teching to Philo and take the slider up to 50% again preparing to "trade" with Sury.
- We are breaking even on 50% slider, so perhaps its time for a bit economy anyway.
- Also Whip Courthouse in York, staking the but the city is really expensive, and has enought happy to handle it.
- Whip forges in Orleans and Susa, getting rid of the redshirts, who were not working anyway.
- Whip Monument in Ligurian

Turn 251: - Sal comes asking to trage World maps. He does not have any Gold tho so i send him away for now. (last turn he was at 130 for trade...)
- Paris done Monastery. Start Hwacha
- Orleans Done Forge start Hwacha
- Susa done Forge starts Hwacha
- Uzbek done Forge starts Harbor
- York done courthosue atart Barracks
- Reims done Carrak start Courthouse
- Ligurian done Monument start Granary
- Our Impis find Sal vey soft, i start to lean towards attacking after all, but the stack a Nottingham still needs healing.

Turn 252: - Lyons done Aqueduct, start Hwacha
- A Shock Dog dies to a Barb sword in the cold nothern thundra. The sword is at 0.2 Healths and becomes XP food for the Queman.
- Persepolis gives birth to a GE.
- After 2 Turns (and about 25% done) Sury still deon want to gove us Philo.
- Which our Imis sniffing around Sal smells sometihng and reinforces Medina. Still not too scary.

Turn 253: - Orleans done Hwacha start ChoKoNu
- London done Whacha start Stable.
- We officially meet Brennus and Kublai.

Turn 254: - Paris done Hwacha, Start Market. The Hwacha stays there for now to fight the Redshirt, as we stil cant get Philo from Sury

Turn 255: - Lyons done Hwacha
- Pasargadae Done Hwacha, start Ballistaphant
- Ligurina Granary - Courthouse
- Sury is finally ready to give us Philo + 120 Gold (and his World map, but i am sure no one cares about that). Odd. Last turn he refused to give me just Philo. Just saved us 3 turns on Philo...
- I put research back to Education. A couple of Civs have Feudalism already, Justinian is teching Guilds... Perhaps we can techwhore Philo around to get Feudalism and Guilds (Maybe for Philo and Compass)

Turn 256: - Sal starts to tech Guilds now. ETA 18. I think we will have to go in after all, to take his Iron (Medina)
- No one has decent amounts of Gold for trade - i check every turn best offer is 80 from Justinina for our Maps....

Turn 257: - Susa done Hwacha, start Zerk

Turn 258: - Orleans Donde ChoKoNu, start Samurai
- London Done Stable, start Balista

Turn 259: - Paris done Market, start Stable
- York done Barracks start ChoKoNu
- We officially meet QinShi

Turn 260: - Paris done Stable, start Courthouse as Maintenance is at 5.8 there now...
- Lyons done on Zerk, start Hwacha
- Tours done granary, start Courthouse.
- Nottingham done Monument, Start Courthouse.
- Sury built himself AngkorWat. While beeing at war with Cathy That probably why he was unwilling to trade Philo...

Turn 261: - Persepolis done Market, start Zerk.
- London Ballista -> Trebuchet.
- I use the GE to make us Notre Dame in Paris. Tha Hagia Sophia - T_McC suggested it, is already taken by the Chinese, and i like ND more anyway - our continent is big, so many cities will benefit from it, and it never goes obsolete.
- While talikng wonders, i think Cathy is busy building the Sistina for us...
- I finish a round of techtrades:

Spoiler :

We are well into Education, while no one else got Paper, so Liberalism is not in danger. And concidering Philo costed us 5 or 6 turns of research before extorting the rest out of Sury, i think those are ok.

Turn 262: - Persepolis pops us another GE. Well not going to complain about a GE, but i kind of expected GS at 85% GS odds.
- justinian, QinShi and Izzy got Guilds...

Notes
- Tech: I teched one turn of Guilds, before all in a sudden Justian, QinShi and Izzy got it within 2 turns. Qin Shi is Pleased with us. I do not know how long "We dont want to start trading this tech just yet will last". We need 7 turns to tech Guild on our own... but if they are willing to trade sooner than that...
- The new GE... Perhaps he can rush us Oxford... Education is 10 turns away... (~20 if we tech guilds our self.)
- Civics: We have access to Vassalage and Theocracy now... Also i think we should go into Caste System to run more scientist in Persepolis. We want academy. We have a few Workshops near london, so CasteSystem would help there too... Whipping becomes less and less attractive

- Saladin: He's teching Guilds - ETA 8. I think we need to go after him after all. I build some new Hwachas and assembled 2 Stacks - one in Nottingham and one in Lugriqan... (Ex-Khmer town N of Sal) Sals Northern cities look very soft. Some reinforcements are also underway...
- A spy at max 50% stationary is ready in Medina to drop defenses and both stacks have a couple of Hwachas.
- I think the Stack from Nottingham should move toward Medina to remove Sals access from iron before he's at Guilds, while the a bit weaker stack in the north can deal with counterattacks or take the soft cities there.

The Save
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/57778/LotR24_AD-1170.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[T_McC]

Took a look at the save ...

I think I'll be setting up Arathorn to make the attack on the Arabs.

Sal having Guilds isn't really a threat because he doesn't have Horses. That means two things: No Cataphracts for him (only Camel Archers) and no Horse-based units for him to upgrade with cash. So he'll have no more than a couple of Knight-like units by the time we declare.

On our part, we'll be slow-playing Guilds a bit to acquire cash and building a handful of Numidian Mercenaries. Num's get a free Flanking I that will carry over when they are upgraded to Cataphracts. I think we'll want a few Flanking II promotions so our units are immune to first strikes, blunting part of Sal's protective advantage.

I'm thinking we will be revolting into Vassalocracy (+Caste) on the inherited IT. Should be a wash economically and lets us build 13-XP (four promotions for Charismatic) mounted units in London and triply-promoted ground units in Paris. We don't have that many cities with Hinduism, but they are the right cities.

 

[Refar]

PS.: I did not sold our World Maps to anyone yet - they just dont have lots of cash But when going to upgrade the Numidian Cavalry you can pass our map around for what we get, raising a little bit additional cash.

 

[Arathorn]

An attack on the Arabs, for me? But Christmas has already passed and it's not my birthday yet! But that sounds like fun.

FWIW, I would've probably attacked Sal anyway. Maces vs. longbows, as long as there aren't too many hills, is reasonably straightforward. Zerks/samurai vs. longbows (no longbow UUs, note) is actually a pretty good fight for the attacker. I dislike cho-ko-nu more than longbows, on the defense. Though I prefer trebuchets to do the initial damaging.

Vassalocracy and caste will put us into position to war successfully for a long time. I like that. After Sal's gone, we shouldn't have to build up/recover too long before slamming into Cathy. I don't think we should stop for more than a brief healing breather before we have our whole continent, once we start. Armies generally grow stronger with more fighting, not much weaker. And we definitely want our whole continent before rifles/grenadiers start showing up.

Roster:
LKendter
Jabah
Refar
T_McC -- UP NOW
Arathorn -- on deck

Arathorn

 

[T_McC]

An attack on the Arabs, for me? But Christmas has already passed and it's not my birthday yet! But that sounds like fun.

Arathorn

I played a few turns last night ...and I wouldn't get my hopes up if I were you.

 

[T_McC]

LoTR 24

Pre-turn: How much firepower do we have on the border? Enormous.

How much does Sal have? Diddly-squat. I see about 10 units, total, in 3 cities + the visible field. We'll have about 20 units + reserve hitting the field.

Check the power graph .... confirms 2:1 ratio empire-wide.

What of ours can he reach quickly? Single worker, who can be interrupted this turn.

Heh. Time to die. (Uhhh ... in my earlier post I meant I would be setting up Arathorn to finish the Arabs. Yeah ... )

Ask Cathy for her 110 gold and she complies. In exchange, I give her Crabs .... for 5 gpt. Since the three cities surrounding it have been improved for production, I believe York should be a commerce city and will direct tile improvements that way. We need to have a few economic cities to support our troop producers. I'll still let the Cho-Ko-Nu finish in York and then start commerce multipliers.

London starts on 2-turn NuMercs. Other cities look fine. I'll also try to squeeze out a couple of settlers this round so I can leave Arathorn with a completely ruined economy.

We're paying 28 gpt in unit expenses, so I think I can justify the triple-civic switch. Costs us 9 hpt in Paris to gain 2 XP in all cities, 4 XP in the important ones, and probably a slight increase in our economy.

Pre-revolt: 203/24/173 with 162 expenses

Oh, I'll be declaring war during the Anarchy. Honestly, I don't know what those soldiers were doing!

City MM in 3, but in the meantime I have a war to prosecute. Will also monitor diplomacy looking for ~100 gold for our map.

<Return>

Turn 263 - Impis are out of Arab territory, so we can honorably declare war on Saladin. Draw first blood vs. Sal with a Vulture killing a Skirmisher in the frozen tundra.

Guilds is available on the trade market, but I'll wait until we have a couple of NuMercs before pulling the trigger. Research stays on Guilds. I do pick up 140 gold from Justinian for our map and 80 gold from Sury for the balance of Calendar. That combination pays for an upgrade of a Dog to a Samurai, ensuring Sal won't attack our worker.

Turn 264 - Around Medina I lose a Samurai, kill a Landsknecht and a Vulture in a series of unnecessary attacks. Not exactly sure why I did that ...

Anyway, at Basra we bomb with a couple of Hwachas and ... sacrifice a 3-XP Berzerk ... then win with a 'zerk, Hwacha, and a Cho-Ko-Nu.



That also nets us a GG which I have no idea what to do with. Don't think we'll need it for this war ...

Turn 265 - Post-Revolt: 189/20/141 with 174 expense. Pfft! Me thinks it isn't a particularly fair comparison because our expenses went up due to having all these units in foreign territory and captured another city. Oh well, sort it out later.

Turn 266 - Have a few borders pop from assigned Artists. Note to self: Re-set MM after this turn. Medina revolted and I think we can smackdown most of Sal's army. City Raider Hwacha Power! Back-to-Back withdrawls, then a make-up loss. After that some hot Hwacha-on-Hwacha action and the city defenders are decimated. With no further losses, Medina (and the Oracle and Temple of Solomon) are captured. I think we're going to be able to pull three shrines if we manage it correctly.



Sury and Cathy made peace, so re-open borders and sell him Rice for 4 gpt. Also take 50 gold for the balance of Polytheism. At least want to try to leave Arathorn an economy that is break-even at 50%. Abject failure on this one.

Re-direct all espionage points to the Arabs, I'd like to be able to revolt Mecca and use the Hwacha for collateral damage. But I'm not going to wait too long for it ...

That's going to take a while, so I investigate how much our WM is worth. Qin (or the other guy) considers it worth 240 gold. One turn at 80% research should allow us to swap Music + WM to him for Guilds. Won't do it immediately because I want 2-3 NuMercs, but that will allow us to run cash for a couple of turns to fund upgrades.

Upgrade a Holkan to a Landsknecht to aid in one city assault. That was at least semi-intentional. :rolleye: Recoup most of the cost by selling Cathy the last turn of Feudalism.

Sal is not in any civic that can rush production, so he's super-dead.

Turn 268 - Sal got the memo and revolted to slavery. Bummer. I think we'll have to seige an extra turn since he can't whip Najran twice.

Turn 269 - Sury vassalizes to Cathy. Didn't look to see if he would have done the same for us, but I don't think we wanted him. Only causes minimal problems for when we attack Cathy. I had been hoping to peacefully vassalize her, but no dice.

Build a 2nd NuMerc and trade Music + WM for Guilds. Research back onto Education. Still no one else with Paper. WM sales are slow because no AI has the 100+ gold I'm looking for. May be able to move Guilds to someone else ...

Time to start slamming Hwachas at Najran: CR II vs. strong LB ... lose and do 15% damage to top defender. One more sacrificial seige. CR II vs. LB: Withdrawal and serious damage. CR I vs. LB: Jobs cleanly. Ok, send in the CR II 'zerk: Lose. Win with Drill IV Samurai, lose another Hwacha at >80%, then start with the 99%+ battles. No further losses and we capture Najran (the Christian Holy City).



Saladin got a GG during the fighting, and he will now capitulate. I don't think we'll even consider that until we capture Mecca.

Turn 270 - We head out for Mecca, leading with our pair of Cataphracts. Cataphracts go BOOM. Since no one else has Paper, and we'll need this to combat WW, I set our research for Drama. Should be able to trade our WM for it in a couple of turns.

Turn 271 - Mecca has a Castle so this is going to be a bloodbath. Fortunately, the Spy will arrive in time to pull a revolt on the 2nd turn of the seige so I can be patient enough for that. Have to see what odds the Cataphracts have against the LBs ...

Turn 272 - WW is starting to pop up so I continue research on Drama. Gilgamesh declares on Brennus. I doubt we care.

We lose a Cataphract to an Arab Ballista Elephant after defeating a Gallic Warrior. Sal piles more units in Mecca so it becomes easier to wait for the spy. We have enough EP for the revolt even without the stationary discount.

Turn 274 - We have a couple of Settlers completed, start a couple of workers. I'll wait one turn to revolt Mecca, but I should have built more than one spy.

Turn 275 - We get a Great Scientist in Persepolis, so we can have either an Academy or insta-complete Education.

At Mecca ...City is revolted, so send in the Hwachas. Lose 3 or 4 but ...



We now control the Great Wall and the Hindu Shrine (18 gpt). City somehow already contains a Courthouse??

This is where I pass off because besides being a round number, we have to decide whether to vassalize Sal or not. If we don't we should kill him off now, although that would require committing to 30-40% lux and slowing research.

So I leave Arathorn 2 settlers, 3 great people and 4 new Arab cities.

More blather in the next post.

 

[T_McC]

Here's what's left of the Arabs:

In the South



Only one city worth bothering with, but it's on a hill. Bit of a problem since I killed almost all of our seige (with a little help from the pRNG). Hopefully Sal didn't build a Castle there, too.

In the North



Baghdad is a good city, although it is getting crushed with Russian culture. That's the non-Moscow Russian Wonder city circled. I figure we should capture and not raze. The city won't be a flip risk regardless of the Russian culture because the bulk of our army can be waiting there for the next war to start. Baghdad would also be a good site for our FP.

The pair of settlers I built are close to their intended destinations (one has already arrived). I wouldn't be at all offended if they just stood there for a while as I didn't think our economy would crash to this extent.

For the GP: We have a Great Scientist. I'm actually leaning towards using him on Education since we should get another GS during Arathorn's turn. The Great Engineer is jobless for a while. Oxford is a possibility, an instant FP in the South, maybe the Taj ... although we'll have the doubling resources for both Taj and Oxford, and Oxford will be quite far away even with Education.

The GG is hanging out in Paris with the GE. Too late/early to do the math, but probably another instructor in Moscow? Maybe after some sleep I can justify that more easily.

Post-war the economy should get even worse as we should probably do a stint in OR to spread the faiths for which we have Shrines.

 

[Jabah]

Well done, I was not expecting Saladin to fold like that, but City Raider Hwacha against sword/axe generation is not exactly fair...

Depending on what is in Damascus (Wonders ?), I would raze all the 3 remaining arabs cities and rebuild Damascus 1 SE on the seaside (to have sea+copper-stone-sheep) to have a powerfull coastal city and less packed cities (regarding russian cities and Mecca positions).

GG, I guest you mean instructor in LONDON, not Moscow

Jabah