LotR3 - SHADOW - Emperor training

[D9phoenix]

LoTR3 10 turns Shadow turn 350bc to 150bc
Preturn:
Checked diplo, nothing of interest.
*side note: all MW will be sent to Catt, also i check diplo every turn, if nothing of interest i won't report it.
(I)Russians Sun Tzu's, Looks like the egyptians are going to road another Ivory for us.
(1)330bc
Worker N of NF ?? moving him to help worker by MC, hum. scout and MW left on goto...
Russia will sell us 2 workers for 57gp/WM i decide to go for it as our income is 83gpt - Russian workers sent N to help worker on mountain. ( i should have checked the worker, he is done next turn )
(I)Russians want WM/5gp for WM i accept. The egyptian worker just ran through our territory. Sal MW - MW, Egypt Sun Tzu's
(2)310bc
Workers outside of Akwesasne moving to the Mountain N of there to road over the incense to Centralia
Workers finish road near Sal move to help worker SW on hill
(3)290bc
Worker finishes road SW of All starts mine, MW arrives in Catt
Egypt,India now has Theology as well, Still to expensive though. Egypt wanted 9gpt/292gp/WM
Just noitced Akw was undefended, moving 1 reg war from St. Regis there.
(I)Sal MW-MW, All MW-MW, Centralia finishes temple - Courthouse. I also set the taxman to work coastal waters to bring in the 1 extra gp and for growth.
(4)270bc
Mine finishes south of All, adjust city tile usage to use it over the reg grassland gaining 1 shield with no food cost.
Both workers near All move to help mine Gold Hill N of All
(we could really use a galley here to make first contact with the other civs)
*Sal grows in 3 - must remember to change taxman to entertainer
(I)Chinese want 210gp for monarchy. Counter with WM/Incense (just finished)/97gp, still not worth it.
NF finishes granary - We could really use a galley to make contact but we only have @9 or 10 turns left with horses, but there is no barracks here and MW will take 8 so i choose MW For numbers.
Catt finishes Courthouse - MW in 4 ( should be able to get 2 MW here before trade expires )
(5)250bc
Worker near GR moves N to road to Ty, workers arrive on Gold hill- drop time by 2 turns.
*10 turns left on horses
India will offer Theology for WM/incense/237gp - checking other civs first. China is the only one left without it but they only have 18gp. Holding off for now.
(I)Sal MW-MW, growth in 1, setting Taxman to entertainer 5 1 4 now.
Delhi completes The Great Lighthouse
(6)230bc
Adjust Sal tile usage to use roaded hill over forest, no production time loss and we gain 3gpt
All the AI's have RoP with each other. Egypt still won't pay for an RoP yet.
(7)210bc
workers at All finish gold hill, move to help worker mining grassland S of All, took of 7 turns
Adjusted Sal tile usage after growth to increase GPT to 51 from 46, with no production time loss.
Traded WM's with egypt at a cost of 3gp
*8 turns left on horses
(I)Sal MW-MW, All MW-MW, hum.. i missed something somewhere, Ty went into disorder. Made one citizen a entertainer till the road gets hooked up in 4 turns.
India Sistine chapel
(8)190bc
Workers at Sal finish Hill, moving to hill next to river by Sal to increase Shield output once its finished.
Can buy theology for 236gp/WM/incense - china still doesn't have it but they have 31gp and monarchy. going to buy it.
Sold Theology to China for Monarchy/WM/31gp
Dead even on techs again. Treasury is at 521gp with 89gpt
(I)GR completes courthouse - ( no barracks here either, but im going for numbers ) MW in 4, Catt MW-MW, Akw temple-marketplace (for max cash)
Order restored to Ty, Egypt, China starts sistine chapel
(9)170bc
Workers finish mine S of All move to Start mine on second Gold hill N of All
Workers finish road to Cen/incense road - mining that same hill
Russia has Education, Traded even WM with India
NF due to grow next turn, change Taxman to entertainer now 3 1 2
(I)Sal MW-MW, OS marketplace-MW changed tile usage to give up 1 food and gain 3gpt, Stevetown worker-courthouse
(10)150bc
Worker at stevetown moved E to road ivory tile
Egypt now has Education, price dropped to WM/445gp, Russia has Engineering WM/298gp/incense, China has engineering/Education. Could buy engineering from russia/china and sell to Egypt for Education.
*5 turns left on horses
Bought Engineering from china for 289gp/incense/WM- Trade Engineering and 122gp for Education/WM with egypt
India still doesn't have Engineering/Education, We can also sell him a RoP but i held off on it.
Treasury is left at 285gp with 97gpt income.

www.civfanatics.net/uploads/lotr3-shadow-d9phoenix-150bc.zip

 

[D9phoenix]

Jbob42: How do you get html code to work on your posts ? i have tried using it but it is turned off and i can't figure out how to turn it on or get around it.

 

[Jbob42]

HTML code? The only code i added was through use of the "HTTP" and "IMG" buttons on the post page - not sure what you are referring to by "html code". I didnt add any tags myself.

 

[D9phoenix]

how do you get your link on the last shadow turn to just say "shadow save" when it links to the file. I would normally just html to set that up i.e. <a href="http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/Filename.zip">Shadow turn save</a> but they have it disabled and i was wondering how you did it.

 

[Jbob42]

ahh.. i see -- well, when you use the "post reply" screen, there is a http:// button for making a link. It prompts you first for the display name, then for the url and creates the following:

<a href="PROMPT2">PROMPT1</a>

 

[D9phoenix]

ahh ok thanks

 

[Jbob42]

Lotr3 Emperor Training _ SHADOW _ Jbob42
350BC-


PreTurn:
Hmm.. all looks good. I really would like to get the extra lux to trade. The worker
in stevetown is going to be great for that.
The worker north of sala is roading a mountain... was this for a mine?
(i) Russia building SunTzu's
Egypt retreats chariot from steve's town.

1 330BC
Catta worker finishes mine and starts road.
NF worker? was this weed? he should have been irrigating the roaded desert
south of the city... instead he is out in the desert and very thirsty
he starts irrigation.
Scout moves on his own
MW moves by himself and arrives in Catta and fortifies.
Diplo-
Hmmm.. im so tempted to trade for theology from Russia, because i can trade
it for probably 150 gp and wines + some unknown gpt. hmmm. i will pass,
because russia is demanding all our gold +53gpt
Ha! we do get 2 workers from Russia for WM+58gp
hmm. on the trade screen, the new workers show up as "Iroquois" and they
are supposed to be Russian!
New workers climb eastern sala hill
(i) Egypt on Sun Tzus as well

2 310BC
Hmm. rushing MW in A saves us a turn and we are making good GPT. Decide to do this
once or twice during my reign to get us to the 15 MWs we need for Russia.
Rushed for 56gp.
New Sala MW moves to Catta
Russian workers mine.
Sala worker (on mountain) climbs west hill to road. he will finish just as the mine
does.
Scout sees regular pike in Minsk
MC worker north to finish road net- picking up Centralia and extra incenses!
Akw workers-- hmm a dilemma here. How do i use them effectively. If St.Reg could
get off the grass mine, it could help awk grow - awk has a lack of 2 food
tiles. I decide to split them up and clear the rest of the plains
forest tiles arround st.R
diplo - nothing going on - nations are poorer than before.
(i) not much

3 290BC
Sala worker (west hill) roads. Road in 6, Mine in 8
A worker mines last available grass.
Scout east to check out the capitol.
StR workers clear forests.
MC worker roads.
2 MWs fortify in Catta.
diplo- all but china has theology. still pricy: 235gp +10gpt monarchy for 220.
I wait on the trading.
(i) barb trireme annoyance.

4 270BC
Centralia finished temple, begins harbor. Actually changed to courthouse. by
the time it needs harbor, a courthouse would come in handy. maybe we should
rush this one through.
Hmm the Catta worker was roading the forest. its being worked, so that's good.
Hmm small MM nets us 2 gp - i move ALL citizens except the cow workers
to the coastal squares, netting extra gold and not slowing the courthouse.
Catta worker north to assist on the A mine- 11 turns down to 4.
other catta worker will convert one of the forests to a grassland mine. he moves
to third forest to chop.
scout approaches moscow. still in fog-of-war.
(i) Chinese wish to see us... monarchy for 210 gold
NF completes granary....starts marketplace - these people are too unhappy.
Catta completes Courthouse... Aqueduct next, shield production restored.

5 250BC
Catta swordsman moves S adjacent to some ripe russian workers, who are
clearing jungle. Since they will be a while, might be good to snag them
when war breaks out.
Catta worker clears.
2 more MW in Catta
Actually - upon reexamining catta- it will have to have a taxman if it grows, so
why not build some MW instead of aqueduct. I change it to MW.
NF worker roads. GR worker moves N to connect tyendega.
Scout sees regular spears in Tblisi and Moscow!
diplo -
well, we can trade for theo with india, giving our extra incense... then
barter theo for monarchy to china. i haggle down to Theology for
Incense and 238gp
WM + Monarchy + 18gp for our theology from China.
so, we end up paying 220gp+Incense for theo+monarchy+china's WM
Russia now will sell us Education for 95gp(our treasury) + 65gpt
ahh- turns out noone else has it.
(i) Delhi completes Great Lighthouse.

6 230BC
Ty worker roads.
Jungle swordsman fortifies.
Scout moves N to vacate Russian property.
diplo-
India will buy ROP for 35gp. done.
(i) The broke chinese government starts Sistene's Chapel.

7 210BC
MW arrives in Catta and fortifies.
scout N.
diplo:
Egypt will trade WMs for 1 gp - done. Indians found a small 1 town island.
(i) Egypt demands Territory map and 32gp. I pay the ho' off.
Sala riots! damn. i didnt see that it FINALLY grew to size 12.
Ty riots! argh size 2 on emperor. Well. it isnt producing anything anyway.
Indians will try for Sistene's.

8 190BC
NF worker moves north to mine gold hill for MC.
A worker is able to get on gold hill and finish mine early, freeing up original
worker. This freed up worker and a Chinese worker move to other gold hill
Chinese will have to wait until next turn to join effort.
Rearrange A to use both hills again - AI moved tiles.
Scout N.
NF will steal use of the mine this turn since sala is toasted.
(i) Sala completes MW - will need mine back next turn.
A, Catta produce MW - A can complete in 3 turns now.
Awk finishes Temple. GR finishes harbor.
Awk builds barracks next so it can build its own defense (has no defenders)
GR builds barracks next so it can build its own defense (only has 1 reg warrior)

9 170BC
Sala gets mine back.
Sala worker (west mountain) helps mine (finish next turn).
Chinese and native workers near A team up with orig worker to finish mine in 5.
Scout N
2 MW fortify in Catta. One in route to there.
Northern worker on top of Centralia's incense.
Hmmm.. OS will complete Marketplace next turn. It needs improvement to grow
without using an unimproved tile after the aqueduct next. No workers
nearby.
(i) OS completes Marketplace- hmm its on a river, no aqueduct needed. So. to grow
on uniproved tile? or work iron mountain for 2 shield and 2 gp. Growth
no longer requires taxman due to the marketplace, so i decide to grow.
Pike orderd up and will complete in 5 instead of 4.
Steves town finishes worker, starts pikeman.

10 150BC
Steves worker moves NE to road more elephants.
2 Sala (west hill) head toward OS - they can complete the 2 grasses there.
Centralia worker roads incense.
Scout climbs iron mountain and searches caves there for bin ladin.
NF changes to Entertainer (grew) - and now can use the mine since sala has a new
one to work- this brings down marketplace to 13 turns.
(end of turn)

Well, not a bad turn - 8 MWs finished and 3 more will finish this turn! 338 gp
Also set to get chivalry if it becomes available.
Im interested to see comment on those tech trades. nothing else major happened. Did have to give in to cleo.

Jbob Shadow Save 150BC

 

[D9phoenix]

on the trade screen, the new workers show up as "Iroquois" and they
are supposed to be Russian!

The reason they show up as iroquois is because we now *own* them. So if you sold them to someone else they would show up as there nationality in the trade screen, but on the board they still show there original nationality.

 

[Arathorn]

(0) 350 - Change NF to marketplace. Consider raising lux tax to 10%. Hmm...that costs 15 gpt. Cheaper/better to run taxmen in both NF and Sala. I go that route.

(I) Stevetown completes walls and begins worker. (Slight mix-up on turns -- I think this is a bit late -- I lost my 350 BC and replayed from 370...)

(1) 330 - Worker near Catt/A roads mined grassland. Worker by NF mines. All changes mind and starts an aqueduct. Even when preparing for war (and in actual war, often), infrastructure can't be neglected. A has a ton of good tiles and can't use them at size 6. Some time/effort now will pay off big-time later.

Buy 2 workers off Cathy for 60 gold. Both head to hill on river near Sala. It's almost never too late to get full value for slaves. They'll more than make up for the 60 gold, given time.

(I) Egyptian worker chooses not to road another elephant for us. Sala MW->MW.

(2) 310 - Worker from mountain goes to forest south of St. R. to clear and then road/irrigate.

Scout sees a regular pike defending Minsk. Both Russian workers start mining the hills. Both workers near Awk go to iron mountain to road it. Worker by NF heads north to hills (faster than going through the mountains.

(I) Barbs move.

(3) 290 - Worker by All goes to gold mountain to help mine it. Scout retreats out of Russia. Everybody but China and us now has theology. We still can't quite pay cash for it, though, so I'm going to wait a bit. I might be losing the chance to sell it to China, but with only Monarchy to offer, I'm not too worried about the loss.

(I) Sala MW -> Cathedral. I hate wasting the horses, but Sala is going to be seriously unhappy soon if we don't do something to help them. Centralia finishes temple and begins courthouse. Citizen put back to work (in grassland).

(4) 270 - Worker between Catt and A moves to roaded grass and begins to mine, wasting zero turns. Worker by Catt moves to another forest, intending to chop it to speed aqueduct, which will be the next build. Theology still awfully expensive and can wait.

(I) Catt courthouse -> aqueduct.

(5) 250 - We have another incense online -- trade bait! That worker moves to connect Tye to the core. NF grew, so I check it. It would revolt. Taxman made into an entertainer and it can continue on. 10 turn to marketplace. Actually, I just buy it for 148 gold. It should add 10 gpt, plus let NF continue to work all its citizens.

Our trade our newly-connected incense, our WM, and 240 gold to Ghandi for Theology. The more cash we have, the more demands we might get -- although our number of MWs will help alleviate that some. Russia has education, too, but appears to be the only one. I'm gonna shop Theology to Mao, too, to see what we can get. Monarchy, WM, and 18 gold. It sucks but I take it. Theo just go less valuable and I'd hate to lose out on even a paltry amount because of overcautiousness.

(I) NF completes market and begins worker -- we still need a few more. Delhi completes lightouse.

(6) 230 - Scout wanders aimlessly. NF citizen put back to work.

(I) Chinese start/cascade to Sistine.

(7) 210 - Both workers on gold hill move to next and begin mining. Sala taxman changed to entertainer to prevent revolt.

168 gold hurries aqueduct in Allegheny, which can crank a few MWs and grow now. Paying in the short-term can help the long-term greatly.

(I) NF worker -> cathedral. A aqueduct->MW. Tye riots -- shoot, I missed it. Make a taxman. Indians start Sistine.

(8) 190 - Second iron connected. Let's see if Mao is interested (and can afford it). He offers WM and 13 gold. We're not interested in such a paltry sum.

One of those mountain workers goes to the grassland that Awk will expand to include. The other goes to the forest by StR. New NF worker moves siouth to desert to mine. Will help Tonawanda next. One All citizen moved from the unmined gold hill to a grassland, so it can start growing again. I wish I had irrigation over there. A good project for down the line a bit.

(I) Sala cathedral -> MW. GR courthouse -> aqueduct. Akw temple -> marketplace.

(9) 170 - Worker moves to hill south of Centralia -- to connect and get another incense online for trade purposes.

Sala citizen put back to work.

(I) OS marketplace - > MW.

(10) 150 - Worker by A heads south to help chop a forest. Worker by NF heads to other desert to mine/road.

All moves a citizen to get on an 11/11/9 schedule for building MWs. It helps growth occur earlier. If this shadow were to continue, this would bear close watching. Sala gives up shared hill to NF, as it doesn't affect his time to build MWs.

Egypt and India have Education. Russia has Engineering. China has both Education and Engineering as well. Let's see what iron is worth now. WM + 7 gpt + 20 gold. Or we can get Engineering for Iron, WM, and 200 gold. Normally, I'd leave this decision for the next player, but this is training and there won't be a next player for a shadow. I make this deal. Education from India costs Engineering and 50 gold. Egypt gives wines and WM for Engineering.

Two techs and a lux for 250 gold and an excess resource. Not bad but not perfect either.

Save at
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/lotr3-shadow-Arathorn-150bc.zip

Arathorn

 

[Arathorn]

(330) - Worker N of NF there in the desert to give more shields to NF. The flood plains will provide enough food for a large city, but NF needs some shields, too. A mined, roaded desert gives two shields and three commerce (in Republic) -- not bad. As NF grows, it will be working unimproved tiles if we don't do something. And NF needs shields more than food. Sending this worker to help MC is -- always improve cities closest to the core first. NF wil be working unimproved tiles very soon unless a worker is dedicated to that city. MC has as many improved tiles as citizens (and will be working water squares a fair bit, too).

on buying the workers -- we still definitely need more. And it slows Cathy a reasonable amount. At least through the entire Middle Ages (and probably later), it's worth buying workers if you see them.

(310) Nonono on the workers near Awk. Yes, getting more incense hooked up is important and a worthwhile goal, but it has to get back to Sala before we can trade it. And there's iron right next to the workers. China has no iron. Iron is more valuable than any lux in a trade.

(290I) Centralia citizen should be working the grassland for faster growth until better squares are available. One extra food is better than one extra commerce. Growth first and foremost. But putting him to work was a smart move.

(270) I understand the desire to get another couple MW out. But we can probably get horses again at some point if/when we need. Also, since MW will be actual fighters (instead of appearance-maintainers like our early troops), we want vets and not regulars. NF still is food central, so another worker or two would probably be better. And a marketplace, for happiness/income. Not a major complaint but I think better options were available.

And Catt should make 3 MW before the deal expires. If you start a unit that requires a resource while you have it, you can complete it, even if you lose the resource mid-production.

(250) You can actually wait one more turn to change the Sala taxman to an entertainer, as growth occurs after happiness check. But it's better to do it one turn too early than one turn too late!

(230) Very good MM of Sala here. Little things like that can make a big difference over time.

(210I) One of the difficulties of emperor is that small cities (size 2) can be unhappy. This is usually easy to fix with connection -- as you note. But it can throw a wrench in the works. At this point, losing one turn's production from an outlying city (which Tye really is) isn't near the problem that losing production from a core city would be. Minor carelessness, but it's hard to watch all the tiny cities for happiness. Not an issue to worry too much about, IMO.

(190) Monarchy and Theology for 205 gold? That's a good deal. And the window to shop Theology to China had to be closing. When an AI is broke like this, it's researching some other tech and will trade it around to catch up once they've finished researching it. It's possible to play an entire game without Monarchy, but it's usually a nice throw-in on a deal like this. Positive points here. Oh, incense included. Still a good deal but not as awesome as I had originally thought.

(170) All is getting overdeveloped for not having an aqueduct. It can't work all these squares and there are probably better things for the workers to be doing (like chopping forests to speed builds in various cities, or chopping jungles to get irrigation to our NW cities).

Again, you switched NF one turn earlier than necessary. These can add up, but not terribly rapidly. Unlike Civ2, where you had to switch before growth, in Civ3, you have a whole turn to see unhappiness coming and plan for it.

(170I) One food is probably worth more than 3 gpt at this point. If it grows 10 turns earlier, that's another 10 turns of shields and commerce. What OS really needs is more developed squares.

(150) Interesting trades. I didn't get gold from India for a RoP like you did, earlier, so they had Education, too. I was able to get wines as part of my E/E trading package. I'm surprised he couldn't afford either Education or Engineering from you, at this point. Two techs for 411 gold. I can't help but feel one can do better than this. We bought in the middle and can't shop fully. I wonder what Ghandi's up to.

It's also normal in SGs to not do a lot of trading on your last turn -- this means you don't overstep boundaries. Of course, this is a training day game, and I'm curious to see what deals you could get, so I'm glad you did them. Not horrible but not completely optimal either.

Arathorn

 

[Arathorn]

Mountain roader by Sala was for troop movement speed -- a fascination of mine. I always want to minimize reinforce time. That was his sole goal. And, yeah, it could probably have waited.

(330) Worker in desert by NF was sent there to build a mine. NF is running out of developed squares. All it has left are deserts and coast. It has plenty of food and needs shields. I could've sent him south, but then returning to this square would waste turns (crossing river and then to this square, plus the turn to cross the river to get to the southern desert). Once this square is developed, it's likely he can head south with no wasted time. And a mine over irrigation at this point.

Apologies about the scout. Forgot about his GOTO. I did mention the MW gotos in my report -- all sent to Catt.

on the workers! Everybody saw those and purchased them. Definite plus for us and minus for Russia.

(310) Generally, saving one/two turns is not a good use of cash. Here's why. A rush completes the item completely. Therefore, the ~9 shields A would've produced simply disappear. When rushing, the best time is almost always after one turn is invested and there's still a long ways to go (if it can be afforded). Rushing the last few turns, while it looks cheap, is actually less effective.

My explanation abilities seem to be a bit tapped out today, so if this isn't clear, let me know and I can probably give a better analysis/example early next week. Fundamentally, it's better to rush 30 shields once than 15 shields twice (assuming no cold-rushes, which are always bad).

Clearing the forests is a good idea. I mentioned in my last report that China had no iron. There's iron right next to Awk. Those workers can road that mountain quickly and get us a new trade item, to save us beaucoup gold when the time comes. Probably a better option -- agreed, though, that the forests are pretty important.

(270) I often road forests before RRs. Especially near grassy cities like Catt -- forests are the best shield source around there. Might as well get commerce, too, for working them. And, as long as there was no loss in time to completion, good MM.

(I) Agreed on NF build (although it might've been worth popping out a worker or two first) and on the Catt shield restore. Chopping the forest will help speed that along, too.

(250) I like the foresight moving that swordsman showed. He can watch over the Russians while still in our land and will be in place to snag them immediately. Even if it doesn't pan out, it's a good move -- little to no risk and potential gain.

Catt's a tough decision -- on one hand, we hate to slow growth (a taxman is better than no citizen at all, after all). But, we only have limited time with horses at our disposal. And a marketplace would be good, too. No strong argument with the MW, except that the forest chop shields might be wasted. I lean towards aqueduct myself. People are power.

220 gold and incense for Theo and Monarchy. Seems about right. Selling the incense early is good, too, because the earlier we trade it, the earlier we can RETRADE it to get another chunk of value out of it.

(230) Solid sell of RoP to India. I forgot to look at this. Good move.

(210) Don't you hate paying off the AI? It's the right thing to do, though. Egypt is the top power on our continent at this point (or we are -- hard to tell, objectively). We can't afford war with her right now. Too many things can go too wrong. Paying her off hurts but it's definitely the right thing to do. Congrats on biting the bullet.

Sala rioting is VERY BAD news. It's our largest city and most likely to riot. It's as productive as any other two cities combined and almost any other three. Keeping those citizens content is very important. At this point in the game, it gets very hard to watch EVERY city that grows. Find the most likely ones to riot (largest/fastest growers) -- usually two or so -- and watch those. Sala is definitely on the list to be watched, so this is major carelessness.

Having said all that, Tye is NOT one of the cities that is absolutely critical and it rioting for one turn, while unfortunate, isn't nearly as big a deal. It's worth trying to keep them happy, if you have the time/inclination, but it's not critical, like big cities are.

(190) Sala actually has enough shield-power at this point to crank MW every two turns without that mined hill. It should go on semi-permanent loan to NF. I did that in my turns (not as early as I should have). The thing is that Sala will produce this turn -- happiness is checked before production, so the revolt will end and then production will occur, so Sala was really toasted LAST turn, not this turn.

Not every city needs to build their own defenders. Awk, in particular, should probably be doing something else with its time -- it's not on a border and, eventually, Sala or All or someplace can provide a defender for it (or you can steal one of St.R's). Of course, GR needs an aqueduct. Tough decision. I'd probably make both something different (marketplace in Awk and aqueduct in GR). Long-term, those will be much more valuable.

(170) OS actually has one worker chopping the jungle on the silk, guarded by a warrior. LONG-term project (that I probably should've waited with, but it's not worth throwing away ~15 turns of progress at this point).

(I) Growth in OS is absolutely correct. And a few vet pikemen would be nice. Maybe OS can provide defenders for GR and/or Awk. Of course, I would build a MW to take advantage of our dwindling turns with horses.

Steves does need defense. I think a barracks might be better, though, for healing and to make vet troops. Hard to argue with a pikeman, though. Courthouse also gets some valid consideration.

(150) Good watching of NF and Sala. No engineering/education discussion? Did China finish engineering and shop it in your game? I didn't get the save, so I can't tell. Both D9 and I bought Engineering and Education. Not sure if we should've...but it at least merits a mention, I would think.

Tech trades were very solid -- not outstanding but definitely not weedy. Probably about 20 gold short of perfect and about 80 gold better than "normal" last-to-buy practice. Shopping incense was wise. At this point, it's the workers and build orders that are so critical. There are just a lot of good options available and no truly weedy decisions made.

Arathorn

 

[D9phoenix]

Arathorn: I didn't know about the ability to still build units once you lose the resource, so i made a note about it.

A question i had about this..

170I) One food is probably worth more than 3 gpt at this point. If it grows 10 turns earlier, that's another 10 turns of shields and commerce. What OS really needs is more developed squares.

The reason i gave up the 1 food over the 3pgt was that it would still grow in the same time frame. My question is, does the food carry over once it grows ? i don't remember ever seeing it happen, but i haven't looked to closely.

 

[Jbob42]

Thanks arathorn.

Usually, I check diplo as a precursor to the next turn... so i didnt check diplo on the 150AD-- but if i had another turn (or it was my preturn) i would have. I know in turn 9, education/engineering was not available.

Ahh - i missed the opportunity to trade iron to china. that would have been good.

Question for you .. i know it wastes worker turns, but why chop the jungle before roading the silks? we could trade them and perhaps make up for the lost worker turns with a road first?

I want to attack russia next turn. Is architect skipped?

 

[Arathorn]

D9Phoenix -- Oh -- didn't realize it made no difference in growth time. Then, yeah, the extra commerce is good. Food does NOT carry over from one growth the next -- just like shields doesn't carry over. I retract my comment.

Jbob -- No worries on the education/engineering techs. Absolutely nothing lost by not checking, since the next player is likely to. More a comment than anything else.

As for the jungle chop before the road -- I hate wasting worker turns is part of it. Habit is part of it. You definitely have a point that it might be better to road before chopping. When I started to chop, we still had zero trade opportunities, so I just went with habit. It's often worth roading forests instead/before chopping. With jungles, it very nearly never is worth roading before chopping, so I just chopped. This might be one of the cases where roading first would've made sense.... I didn't even consider it really.

IGNORE:
Hmm...which of the above turns is official? Architect is skipped, probably out...Chieftess is in another game and not playing. I would think the best thing to do is to have D9's turn be "official" since it had been the longest since he had played, putting Jbob on deck for the next official turn. I'm gonna advertise in the open SGs sticky thread today, too, to try to get another player or two.

NEW:
Architect will play and I will review his game by Monday. Jbob is up. I am still going to advertise an open spot. AARRGGHHH!! I hate dealing with stuff like that. If Architect's report isn't up by Monday morning when I get to work, he's skipped and D9's is the official turn.

Arathorn

 

[Architect]

No, I'm not out, just confused on when I was up. You can skip me if you want and I'll just come back around in the rotation or you can wait until I finish it later tonight.

 

[D9phoenix]

Edit: post moved to offical thread.

 

[JMB]

Turn 0 (150 BC) – Spend ~ 20 min looking at map, cities, and checking out our rivals. Change OS to a MW (we only have 5 turns left on our horse deal and it will take <5 turns to produce one more MW). Change Stevetown to barracks; can change to a defensive unit if necessary in the near future… Move warrior from St. Regis to Akwesasne. Hurried production of aqueduct (160 gp) in All so that we can produce a couple more MW before our deal with Egypt runs out. Bought engineering from China for WM, Iron, Incense, and 51 gp. Bought theology from India for WM, engineering, and 43 gp. <Enter>

Russians are building Copernicus’s Observatory…
Egypt moves a chariot into Avaris; it looks like Stevetown might be gone in a short while…

Turn 1 (130 BC) – Set 2 workers in jungle outside All to clear jungle. Move worker from NF towards OS to help clear and road the silks. Move MW to Catt and fortify. Fortify warrior in Akw. Moved scout nw towards Catt (will disband next turn as he is costing us 1 gpt and there is nowhere for him to go…). MM St. Regis so that we earn 9 gp and will still produce the marketplace in 1 turn with only 1 shield wasted (no losses to growth; probably should have done last turn…). Consider changing Stevetown, but decide to wait and see what happens next turn. <Enter>

China building Sistine Chapel…

Turn 2 (110 BC) – Sal produces MW; another MW due in 2 turns. St Regis produces marketplace; pikeman ordered up. Jaipur revolts and wants to join our republic! Great! (it is a fishing village, but may (in the future) become a point from which we can launch an attack on India). Change production in Jaipur to worker and rush (it is size 2, starving because of unhappiness; hopefully, I’ll be able to produce the worker before the city revolts…). Worker completes road into Ty; shift citizen to work coast. Move worker to forest outside GR to build road/chop wood (I’ll decide next turn). MM GR to produce more shields (shift citizen from coast to forest; we can’t grow without an aqueduct and this will decrease production time for marketplace to 11 turns from 14). Workers outside Centralia complete road to incense, move n, nw to bonus grassland to mine. MM NF to produce more gold from working floodplains (worker produced in 1 turn, growth in 1). Diplo check. India is only person we can trade incense with (I don’t believe that we want to trade with Cathy as we’ll be attacking her soon), but they only offer 16 gp (all they have) and WM. I try to get monarchy, but they want incense, WM, and 70 gp; in my opinion this is too much and I’ll see if they have more gold next turn (or will reduce the price for monarchy (I will get rid of incense next turn though…)). <Enter>

Egyptians request audience and offer monarchy for 220 gp… No thanks!

Turn 3 (90 BC) – NF produces worker; shift to marketplace. Jaipur revolts, but still produces worker; content citizen working ocean, shift production to harbor. Akw produces worker; shift to barracks. Send Akw worker sw, w to irrigate bonus grassland so that I can bring irrigation up to regular grassland (hopefully I’ll be able to irrigate…) Worker outside GR begins clearing the forest (done in 20 turns; marketplace in 10 and aqueduct thereafter). Send worker produced in Jaipur to chop down forest to the s. MM OS. Move 2 workers outside All w, w and irrigate mined bonus grassland to bring irrigation up along our west coast. Moved 2 workers w, sw to irrigate the grassland outside All. Moving 3 workers mining gold outside Sal towards Catt to build a road to connect with Russia’s road (will allow us to get our troops in faster…) and clear the jungle. Move worker produced in NF to mine the gold 3 squares to the n. Workers outside Cent begin mining b. grassland. Diplo check. Gandhi offers WM, 1 gpt, and 20 gp for incense. I counter and raise it to 26 gp and this is still acceptable; I take it (by waiting the one turn we made 30 gp; was it worth it?). MM All. <Enter>

Turn 4 (70 BC) – Sal produces MW; since our trade agreement with Egypt will end next turn, I change to pikeman. Same deal with All and OS. Centralia produces worker and I shift to granary (might switch to a harbor a bit later…). Terrible news! The citizens of Stevetown revolt and join the Egyptians! Lost supply of horses and furs. The worker outside Stevetown begins the long walk home… Move MWs towards Catt. Move last worker outside All to OS to irrigate grassland being worked. Worker produced in Cent moves ne to help out other two workers. MM Mauch Chunk to work the gold hills (will still produce harbor in 1 turn…) Sal, GR, All, Catt, OS, Ton, NF are about to go into disorder; I’ll see what I can do wrt luxuries. I trade Incense for Ivory and 1 gp. Citizens still not happy; raise the luxury tax to 10% (cost 15 gpt). Check how much Cleo wants for another luxury; if less than 15 gpt (or <300 gp) it is probably worth it… I trade WM and 223 gp for wines. I guess I screwed up because the extra luxury didn’t make the populace happy enough and I had to raise the lux tax anyways… I trade WM and 171 gp for Chinese horses (I figure we’ll probably want to continue making MWs/knights for our upcoming war). Switch Sal, All and OS back to MWs. Cancel ROP with China (they are still polite) <Enter>

Turn 5 (50 BC) – Gandhi wants to trade territory maps; I wait until I can ask him on my turn. Cleo asks us to remove our worker from her territory; we comply. Mauch Chunk produces harbor, switch to marketplace. 2 workers w of All move nw to plains to irrigate and road. 2 workers to sw of All move to help out with road to Russia. <Enter>

Turn 6 (30 BC) – Sal produces MW move to Catt; Sal will produce another MW. I choose to clear jungle before completing the road to Russia because I don’t foresee us attacking them before around another 10 turns have passed. 2 workers e, se of St Regis begin road (on irrigation). MM St Regis to grow faster (should have noticed this earlier). MM OS to begin growing again (another thing I should have notice earlier). Notice that there is a taxman at NF (probably from turn 4); I put him back to work. <Enter>

China requests audience and offers us Education for 450 gp; I decline.

Turn 7 (10 BC) – All produces MW; I allow it to produce another. St Regis produces pikeman, I set it to produce another (to begin replacing the warriors guarding our cities). Change Cent from a granary to a harbor. Send 3 workers outside Cent to chop down forest to the se. MM Sal to produce more gold. Change Mauch Chunk production from a marketplace to a courthouse. MM MC to grow faster. MM Jaipur to produce more commerce (the shields were being wasted…). Diplo check. Why are we paying China 8 gpt and India 2 gpt? These deals fortunately run out next turn… <Enter>

Turn 8 (10 AD) – Sal produces MW; another one ordered up. MM Ton to maximize production (we can’t grow here anymore until the aqueduct is finished). Send workers that were roading the mine to the se of Sal se, s (s) to irrigate the grassland being used by OS. Send workers to south of Akw nw, w, n to help the other worker irrigate the grassland 2 tiles north of St Regis. St Regis and NF will grow next turn. Everyone seems to be ignoring Chivalry… <Enter>

Russia is annoyed about our worker…

Turn 9 (30 AD) – OS produces MW, another one ordered. That is pretty much it… <Enter>

Turn 10 (50 AD) – All and Sal complete MW, begin more MWs. Catt completes aqueduct, starts marketplace. Change GR to aqueduct (would have completed marketplace next turn). Worker to the n of Ton finished chopping wood and begins bringing water to the plains. NF if still fine for now, but will probably go into disorder in 2 turns after it grows. MM All to grow next turn. Diplo check. Trade territory maps with China, Russia, and India. India is lacking Education, and Egypt, Invention. China and Russia have Monarchy, Education, and Invention. Road to an extra silk will be complete next turn; try to sell it immediately. As Russia has Invention, I imagine that they are going for Gunpowder next so I think we should begin researching Chivalry immediately as our knights are much less effective against muskets than pikemen.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/lotr3-shadow-JMB-50AD.zip

 

[Arathorn]

Yes, please attach the shadowed game. Follow the naming conventions in the first page of this thread.

Your zip file (and save game, too, please) should be named

lotr3-shadow-JMB-50ad.zip

where the year obviously changes.

Arathorn

 

[JollyRoger]

I didn't have time to complete my turns. Reading the threads took longer than I thought. I will post what I have. I will play a full set of shadow turns on the next set.

(0) 150 B.C.

Changed citizen in Sal from forest (1-2-0) to irr/roaded plain (2-1-2). MW still pops every 2 turns, Sal gpt increases from 49 to 52. Take Stevetown off of wealth, switch to Pikeman. Citizen shift in Catt & All. Move Catt citizen from shared grassland to forest and move All citizen from gold hill to shared grassland. All needs the growth more as they are both size 6, but All is building aquaduct while Catt is building a marketplace. Would have to sacrifice some time from the gold hill to get All to grow anyway. This just starts growth sooner without slowing down production of aquaduct.

Check trade scene. Ghadi doesn't have Engineering. Mao gives us Engineering for incense, iron, wm & 51g. Ghandi gives us Theology for Engineering, wm, RoP & 7g. Mao & Cathy have Education.

(i) NF pops worker. Order just one more before planned marketplace build. Cathy building Observatory.

(1) 130 B.C.

Move NF worker to gold hill of MC. Order workers to chop jungle in ALL. Not really sure what to do about the scout. Does he serve a purpose anymore or is he draining 1 gpt? Leave him alone for now. Change GR citizen to work forest instead of harbor. Reduces build time of marketplace from 15 to 11. W/o aquaduct, production more important than food. Gpt drops from 12 to 9. Change SR citizen from forest to coast. Gpt increases from 7 to 9. Marketplace will still complete this turn.

(i) Sal MW-->MW. OS pops worker. Set for MW for now (may change if can reasonably renew horses w/Cleo). SR builds marketplace. Set for MW as it has barracks and too limited of a mid-term upside to justify starting an aquaduct while we're building up our forces. China building Sistine.

(2) 110 B.C.

Worker becomes goldminer on MC hill. Cen workers move to dotted grassland. Tye worker moves to GR forest. Jungle cleared in ALL. 3 stay to irrigate. 3 move towards OS to join new OS worker in clearing a jungle. New OS worker moves to targeted jungle square. OS has good size 12 potential, but will need some irrigation to take advantage of hills. All of OS's cleared river squares are mined. Think it might be a sin to change these to irrigation at this point. Thus the jungle clearing.

That's all I had time for. Wanted to post what I had done so as to start the weed clearing process. Reading the threads was very educational. I think that alone will improve my play dramatically.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/lotr3-shadow-JollyRoger-110ad.zip

 

[Arathorn]

I'm WAY slow -- been in the hospital with false labor (my wife's -- not mine!) and had next to no sleep, nor much time for Civ3 (none in the last two days). Sorry. No guarantees on the report posting time. I've still got to do my shadow, too.

Arathorn