LotR3 - SHADOW - Emperor training

I've learned a lot in this game, Arathorn is a great teacher. Thanks.

However, One thing I've learned that I'm not really interested in playing at Emperor level at the present time..

Thanks for the experience though.
 
Well i played my turns 2 nights ago.. had everything ready to post, then the worst sound you could ever hear.. clicking from my hard drive... Got a new drive now and saved some of my data, but my game was lost. I will replay them tommorrow before i goto work and post my results.

Computers always pick the best times to crash.. used my vacation money to get my computer up and running *sigh* now i have almost no money to spend on vacation...
 
I tried to play the turns over as closely as possible.

2150bc Took alook around, familiarized myself with the current game.

2110bc
All completes warrior - archer, Chinese worker near All sent to mine bonus grassland. Both settler moving toward All.
SE scout pops Horseback Riding
Both scouts in the SW head south around the chinese borders.

2070bc
NF completes worker - Archer. One of the workers roading the mountian south of Sal moves toward All to finish the road there, the other moves south to finish road.
SE scout moves SW SE - sights barb ends turn on hill
SW scout moves SE SW - to avoid chinese territory
S scout moves SE S
*in my original turn i ended in chinese territory with the SW scout because i didnt see the border line through the vegetation.

2030bc
SE scout moves SE S - end on hill
S scout S S
SW scout S SE

1990bc
S scout S SW - end on mountian top
SW scout SE SE
SE scout NW N
Warrior at NF moving on wheat to protect worker against Barb.

1950bc
Worker at NF on wheat starts road - warrior fortified
S scout SE E - end on hill
SW scout SE - moving through forest i think it was here
SE scout SW SW - end on hill

1910bc
Barb attached warrior on wheat near NF - barb dies
GR completes worker - worker
SE scout S SW
S scout S SE - end on hill
SW scout S SE - end on hill

1870bc
NF worker finishes irrigation of flood plain, starts road. Cattaraugus Founded NW of ALL, escort warrior fortified in city - city set to warrior. GR completes worker, worker moved onto bonus grassland.
SE scout W N - end on mountian
S scout E SE
SW scout SE - moving through more vegetation
*barb camp 2 tiles N of catt
1830bc
Sal completes spear- spear. Oil Springs founded SW of ALL.
SE scout SW NW - end on mountain
S scout S S
SW scout (barb camp poped behind him inbetween turns) E S

Here is where i found out that one or two of the other civs( dont remember exactly) researched the one i was. Thinking i would be able to buy the tech in a few turns as i had more money then they wanted for it i switched to Polytheism. ( i will make a note about this at the end)

1790bc
Chinese worker finishes road between All and Sal. moving W to keep roading. Spear at NF moves onto wheat, worker near NF starts irrigation on FP
SE scout NE N - end on mountian
S scout S E - end on hill
SW scout E S
*Checking with the civs payed off - Egypt sold worker for 28gp
Rate at 9.1.0 78gp in treasury +15gpt
Egpyt workersent SW to road N side of River between Sal and All to speed reinforcements and movements between the cities.

1750bc
NF fell into disorder - Rate 8.1.1 ( i dont understand why it did this. everyone was content at the time with no warning signs- but upon reflection i did notice that it was due to grow the turn before)
Worker SW of NF finishes road, moving SW to irrigate FP
SE scout E E
S scout NE NW - end on hill
SW scout N N

Realized I should have kept researching writting as the next turn from switching the computer wanted my entire treasury and gpt for something they only want 78gp for the turn before. I don't really understand this, but im guessing it has something to do with the competition from me researching it, then when i switched there wasn't anymore so they figured they could charge me up the arse.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/lotr3_shadow_d9phoenix_1750bc.zip
 
(0) 2150 - Change GR to settler. Wake warrior from Salamanca to accompany settler(s) south of there (unescorted settlers with barbs around is just asking for a slapdown). MM NF to grow in one turn -- citizen on flood plains instead of on the plains -- better all the way around. Sala changed to build a granary.

(I) Allegheny completes warrior and begins a barracks -- we'll need actual fighting troops before TOO long.

(1) 2110 - Begin roading gold hill. Connecting Allegheny semi-important and speeding troop movement also good. Eventually, this square might be worked, but it's mostly about movement at this point. 2nd worker on mountain also begins a road. Worker on wheat irrigates.

Warrior and both settlers move to that gold hill. One is headed NW to the forest and the other SW to get the two cows. It'd take 12 turns to get to the landbridge and I'm just not that bold. If it worked, it might be a coup (getting the wine in the process). If it failed, it would be a huge waste. Too much risk for too little gain, IMO. We'll capture that area later, if/when we need it.

Scouts scout. Amazingly enough, the eastern scout finds a goodie hut -- inside are the generous Chehalis tribe, who teach us the secrets of horseback riding. Now, if we could only find some of these mythical "horses", we would be in business.

New warrior in Allegheny goes south to get a mountaintop view of the surrounding terrain -- fog-busting barbs before the settler comes along. Safety first....

(I) NF produces worker -- settler ordered -- let's fill our land with as many productive cities as possible as quickly as possible. Zooming shows a citizen on a floodplain -- let's move it to the mined plains, slowing growth some in NF but getting the settler faster. Once the irrigation of the wheat completes, it'll probably even grow before the settler finishes in 8 turns.

(2) 2070 - New worker from NF goes SW to flood plain to begin improving it.

Warrior and one settler go NW (warrior first, of course). The other settler continues SW towards the two cows. The warrior for the second settler stays ahead, moving SW himself.

The workers on the mountain are finished -- that's a road to where the new GR site will be. I move one to the bonus grass SE of their current position as a site to be worked once GR is relocated (I thought this was on the river, but I was apparently wrong). The other joins the worker on the gold hill.

Scouts continue scouting. A barb is spotted in the east, but I have time to run and he's "just" a warrior. I also accidentally intrude on Chinese space, completely missing the blue line in the ground.

Make the rounds and see nothing interesting. Cities are solid. Diplo is as good as can be expected.

(I) Apologize to China and prepare to run from a barbarian warrior.

(3) 2030 - East scout runs NW twice to escape the barb warrior. Other scouts see another horse by China, the south coast, and not a whole lot else of interest.

Worker on bonus grass mines, flood plain irrigates, and gold hill roads. Warriors keep heading for destinations before their settler.

(I) Barb spotted north of NF -- the worker up there will be in danger soon.

(4) 1990 - Warrior/settler teams continue their dance. The SW settler is leaving A, so it needs its escort closer. The warrior heads back that way to provide cover from any possible move 2 troops.

Continue scouting Chinese lands and east scout has a decision -- I like the looks of the ivory SE of where I am, but the barbs scare me, so I head W and N to see what I can see.

A warrior is mobilized in NF. Since I'm not sure whether this will cause unrest or not, I move him south first, check the happiness of the city (see it's OK) and then move him back N and then N to protect the worker. Little tricks like this can save a few gold here and there.

Nothing on the diplo front interesting at all.

(I) Worker on wheat finishes irrigation. Barb moves closer. The Chinese have a settler out, so their fourth city is imminent. Just noting things.

(5) 1950 - Worker on wheat waits. The warrior has to do his thing first. I cross my fingers and attack the barbarian. One hp of damage and no promotion, but success and that's what I was looking for anyway. Now the worker can road in peace and relative safety.

SW settler moves SW and protecting warrior stays one south, to keep more fog busted and to protect from threats from that direction. The NW pair is fog-busting up that way, so I can see threats coming a ways away. That pair moves NW to their final destination, warrior first, of course.

East scout heading back west before going too far north. Other scouts working way east (and south).

Cities OK. Diplo shows nothing new.

(I) Another barb appears N of NF.

(6) 1910 - Warrior north of NF rests a turn to regain his lost hp.

SW settler goes SW again -- one more south and he'll be in position. Other settler pair founds Cattaraugus, working a bonus grassland. Barb camp noted NW of here (should auto-frag, I think) but a warrior is ordered up anyway.

Nothing interesting from scouts.

Time to whip in GR. I'm pretty committed to this, the more I think about it. Whip away one citizen to get the settler complete. Change one citizen to a specialist (doesn't matter which, since he won't work, I believe. I do a taxman to be safest). This is to make exactly even food (deficit means starvation before the settler completes, which gets ugly).

(I) It all works perfectly, GR is abandoned. Russia settles right near our eastern scout, too, but we can deal with that no problem. Gold hill road finished. Flood plain irrigation finished, too.

(7) 1870 - GR settler and warrior move one north, leaving behind a road on a cleared silk.

Both workers move to second gold hill. SW settler moves one south, joining its warrior, who fortifies. Road ordered in the flood plains.

Warrior north of NF fortifies, getting the maximum bonus and daring the barb to attack him. It's our best odds.

East scout leaves Russian territory. West scout continues along coast. Central scout violates Egyptian territory purely by accident. I've been BAD with that on my turns.

Sala grew and has unhappy problems. Lux tax will be increased -- to 10%, I think/hope. NF citizen moved off of plains to irrigated flood plains to grow one turn earlier. If the AI has a brain, the plains will be worked, too. Oh. Allegheny needs happiness, too. I doubt 10% will suffice for them. That could be troublesome. An issue I need to deal with before going on. Oh, Allegheny got GR's whip unhappiness. Hmm...how to deal with that.

Lux tax to 10% solves Salamanca's problems. Allegheny gets told growth will slow as the roaded gold hill will be worked instead (gives more commerce, so one gold goes to lux tax). I guess I maybe should've stayed and mined it. Oh well -- after the road it shouldn't take too long to do so.

(I) Apologize to Cleo for scaring her chickens. Watch our brave warrior be reduced to one hp before rallying for the victory. WHEW!

(8) 1830 - Found GR on the correct spot. Order a warrior. Support warrior fortifies in place. This SHOULD bring silks to the nation. I check. It does. Lux tax must remain unchanged, though, as the silks can't reach Allegheny yet, which needs the lux tax.

Oil Springs founded near the cows. Warrior ordered, to protect the worker that must come soon thereafter.

E scout continues north. Center scout goes east. West scout sees barb hut that appeared right next to him and runs away E, SE.

Worker from wheat goes SW to flood plain there. Both workers on gold hill road.

HEY! The AI put NF's citizen on the right square. No changes needed. Happiness there is a breeze right now. Rest of the cities doing just fine.

Egypt, India, and China have writing. Russia does not. We can buy it from Ghandi (he's in last place) and sell to Russia (who has 43 gold) and not spend too much -- at least that's my theory. Writing from Ghandi for 70 gold. 43 gold from Cathy for writing. Net cost to us, 27 gold. That's pretty sweet for a tech. I change us over to Polytheism and stay on min science. Polytheism is LOW on the AI priority list, generally, so we might get it in 40 turns. Going to zero sci is again a reasonable option.

We now have the option of establishing embassies. After a bit of debate, I decide to do some of this. We are first in land area by F11 and have just established new cities. We won't grow in land area anytime soon and the AI powers might. Our best deal for RoP might be right now. I'm gonna try.

India first (cheapest embassy @ 30 gold):
Stupid AI -- growth in 2 (to size 2!) and a settler due in 2 turns. And a wheat tile unworked. Stupid, stupid. India's lands/start are bad enough they shouldn't be any real trouble, long-term.

Ghandi pays 38 gold for a RoP. He's gotta be dead last in land area. Will it be worth it to try to sell others? I decide 35 gold is my cut-off for embassy-establishing price.

Russia at 31 meets that criteria (31 gold for an embassy):
Moscow is in an awesome position, with a wheat (now shared out to Minsk), cattle, furs, river, horses -- everything one could want. Colossus finishes in 15 turns, but will be less after growth.

Russia, OTOH, is broke -- which I should've noted before establishing the embassy. Cathy's not interested in a straight RoP, let alone paying for one, so that's just a sunk cost. Embassies are eventual needs, but definitely something that could've waited in this instance.

(9) 1790 - West scout continues running and trying to see the coast. Central scout finds some mountains (and some more iron). East scout gets close to Russia but doesn't actually "invade".

Another flood plain worker irrigates. Warrior north of NF goes north to a hill to provide better barb protection (and to hopefully spot the camp).

Settler in NF will complete in one turn regardless of shields, so citizen moved from plains to flood plains (bare but being irrigated) for this turn, to get that bit of jolt in food.

Woohoo! Egypt has a worker for sale. 28 gold brings another slave into the mix. He goes west into the forest by Salamanca -- road towards Cattaraugus and a reasonably good square in its own right.

(I) NF completes settler and begins granary.

(10) 1750 - Forest worker roads. Others wait as I consider a plan of action.

Warrior north of NF sees TWO approaching barbs. He's on a hill and can fortify, which he does, crossing his fingers.

East scout violates St. Petersburg to try to see coast there. C scout in rocky lands. S scout back to coast, with barbs out of view.

Settler and worker by NF both go to plains 2S of NF. A city in this direction isn't exactly my first choice of location, but it's safe and can be reached quickly. A grass shared with GR gives growth potential and there are no known barbs in the area. [As I think about this more, I'm thinking a race to the landbridge/wine might make more sense -- gambity but huge benefits if successful.]

Cities look good. Diplo is boring.

The situation I'm looking at looks VERY positive.

Arathorn

Save at

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/lotr3-shadow-Arathorn-1750bc.zip
 
This is your first review. If you've not read the others, just know that I can use harsh words sometimes, but that it's all done in a friendly spirit. You're also prety new to Succession Games, so I'll make some comments in that vein, as well.

Sorry, I had about 200 lines of your comments lost in a computer crash, too (well, a power flicker). This is much more abbreviated than what I would've liked to have done. It turned out pretty curt -- not all of them will be this way.

Read Lee's review, too. And my turns to see what could have been done differently/better.

(2150) When you do your initial analysis, you need to do it in more depth. Suggestions had been made (for GR, for NF) that would've been beneficial -- at the very least you should've commented why you didn't make the proposed changes. "Looking around" involves reading the history, too, not just perusing the current game situation.

You didn't mobilize a settler guard immediately from Salamanca. This meant you had one settler (Oil Springs) go unescorted for MANY turns, with barbarians known to be around. HIGHLY dangerous. Mobilizing one troop is a cheap insurance against a very painful loss.

(2110) Allegheny should NOT be building an archer. What's the point? It has little intimidation value against the AI, is less efficient at barb fragging than two warriors, doesn't upgrade well, and wouldn't even be veteran. Definitely major :smoke: in that decision. Allegheny needs a lot of things before a regular archer -- like nearly everything.

Worker near Allegheny should probably be connecting rather than wasting two turns getting to a bonus grassland. The connection cuts corruption, speeds troops (which will probably be important in <50 turns), gets luxuries there, etc. Definitely a weedy waste of worker time.

(2070) Using NF to build an archer is an even bigger crime than building one in A. NF has a ton of FOOD, so designed by the terrain. Each city has strengths and weaknesses. The goal is to capitalize on the strengths while minimizing the weakness. NF has pop as a strength and shields as a weakness and you choose to build something that requires shields and doesn't care about population??? [pimp] NF should be building only three things for the foreseeable future -- worker, settler, granary. Anything else is PROBABLY (always exceptions) just weed.

(1990) You did see to mobilize the warrior out of NF to protect the worker. That's a plus.

(1950) Warrior fortified on the worker. This gives a better success chance than attacking the barb, but the consequences of losing are worse -- there's no back-up plan. Had my attack on the barb failed, I still had a warrior in NF to move to cover the worker (and hope). If you'd've lost, the worker was toast for sure. And then, you would've needed to attack across a river or hope he didn't pillage. Not optimal.

(1870) I don't like your Cattaraugus at all. For one thing, it wastes a bonus grassland by having a city founded on top of it. It overlaps more with Allegheny with no major advantage. After two grasslands, growth will be a problem. Definitely not the best place for a city. Not as bad as the original GR location, though.

GR completes its worker (not a whipped settler) and then starts another worker? A poor food location building workers? Wasteful, wasteful. GR, even where you have it, can build an archer almost as fast as NF can, while NF cranks out workers. Use the city's strength, not its weakness.

(1830) If you're gonna be in this particular Succession Game, you gotta keep better notes, or I can't help you much at all. Yes, writing was probably discovered now. When a new tech is available, you need to see who has it (and at what cost), who doesn't (and what they can pay), and then make a reasonable decision. You didn't do the background (or didn't report it) and made an unwise decision.

Now, changing what you were researching was a good idea. Each beaker is worth about 1/2 * (1 - (# of known civs with tech)/(# of (original, I believe) civs)) of a gold piece when doing a trade. The few beakers we had stored up for Writing would barely register. There's another dynamic at work. Still, buying at this time and selling to Russia was almost assuredly the best move.

Regular spears out of Salamanca is NOT a good use of its capabilities. They upgrade all the way to mech infantry, so it's definitely worth the time/effort/trouble to build a barracks first -- in fact, one city cranking vet spears is starting to make a lot of sense -- I don't think it should be Salamanca, but it might be. Cranking regular spears, though, is a bad BAD option.

The Oil Springs location is also semi-interesting. You again wasted a bonus grassland, didn't add to long-term health, and increased overlap with Allegheny -- all for one extra cattle in range before cultural expansion. That's awfully expensive for a bit of food. Losing the bonus grass especially hurts. Not the best option, but not completely horrible, either.

(1790) Buying the Egyptian worker is definitely a good option. I wonder why Lee didn't get this? Probably something to do with his scouts and their locations/death. Odd, that.

(1750) Letting a city fall into revolt is definitely carelessness. You flat out missed it. It happens. Had you moved GR, it wouldn't have. Or had NF produced a settler/worker, it wouldn't have. Or had you noticed the city was going to grow (we still only have a handful, which isn't too many to check/remember), it wouldn't have. Definitely not being as careful as you could/should be.

If you actually purchased writing for that exhorbitant cost, that would be major weed indeed. As it is, just noting it is fine. The cost an AI charges depends on relative military, attitude, relative culture, and possibly some other things. It certainly fluctuates from turn to turn. And from AI civ to AI civ! Did you check with them all? Ghandi's been our best provider, of late.

Grades:
City Management: F (bad builds, no NF micromanagement for growth, unrest, no GR move)
Tech Trading: C- (no immediate purchase of Writing but not exacerbated by overpaying later)
City Placement: D
Military: C (lots of dependance on the one die roll -- random regular troops)
Workers: C- (wasting turns, off on low priority tasks occasionally)

Overall: D (lots of room for improvement)

Arathorn

P.S. Feel free to ask questions. I hope to be on this evening/a bit this weekend to try to answer.
 
Well i did better then i had hoped in some area's and worse in others. I'm still glad i joined this game :)

I read lee's review and your's both before moving onto mine. I also have the game d/led and will play when i get done with this.

(2150)I read through most of the review's, and i didn't understand the GR move until your post. Now i completely understand that. The reason i didn't mobilize a guard from the capitol was i remembered hearing the barb sightings north and took a gamble there with the 2 warrior at All being able to defend them.

(2110)Upon reflection i don't remember why i did it also, and it's not something i normally do. I did play with the city for a few turns deciding what i wanted to use it for. Just used the archer to hold shields until i could decide on what i wanted there. This is strength/weakness for me in the game. I will sometimes set a high shield item in the qoue so the city can be idle while i decide what i want to do with it.. and since there is no shield loss like in civ2 its become and odd habit.

I concede the point on the worker wastage i understand it now.

(2070)The city screen im still not comfortable with, i have learned alot in the past few weeks reading posts and playing around in the game. I did see this after i played my turns and was playing a random game to pass the time. I am getting better at managing cities, but im still not where i feel completely comfortable with it.

(1990)That was my plan all along.

(1950)I have tried attacking conscript warrior before under that scenario at these lvls. i always lost if i was using a regular warrior. That was the reasoning behind the fortified move. i was going after the max defense bonus i could get.

(1870)I never payed attention to the bonus gained by setting a city down in desert terrain so i didn't know about that. The reason behind the spot was to get the 2 incense in range and have a harbor for growth/exploration/trade later in the game. I tend to think ahead more then in the "now" of the current. I didn't know where the barb camp was, if i had.. i might have placed it in your position but now that i know about the bonus to desert terrain i would have done that. I agree with Lee's decision here.

GR completes its worker (not a whipped settler) and then starts another worker? A poor food location building workers? Wasteful, wasteful. GR, even where you have it, can build an archer almost as fast as NF can, while NF cranks out workers. Use the city's strength, not its weakness.

Old habits die young... poor decision. lesson learned

(1830) If you're gonna be in this particular Succession Game, you gotta keep better notes, or I can't help you much at all. Yes, writing was probably discovered now. When a new tech is available, you need to see who has it (and at what cost), who doesn't (and what they can pay), and then make a reasonable decision. You didn't do the background (or didn't report it) and made an unwise decision.

India 80gp and 2 others i dont remember which one's but both wanted 90gp. When i checked the others i didn't notice russia had a gold stockpile. With bartering i got India down to 78gp, even though i had the money with some to spare i thought this a poor decision. Since i have been playing the lower lvls i tend to horde the tech's, again an old habit that needs to die. As for not being detailed enough.. well.. lets just say my original notes for 10 turns took over 5 pages on legal size paper. I can get even more detailed then that if you like, but i thought it best to scale my inital post back then expand on it till you said it was too much info. With each new post i put up i will refine it as i learn what your looking for.

The spear's out of Sal whas a short sighted goal, to get some good defenders into NF to send out the warrior to scout the northern barb camp. Yes Sal should have been used for something else longterm but atm i decided the barb threat was more important.

Oil spring location was done to seal the border and to give a good battle ground. I much prefer fighting from a city to grassland then into a forest square. More a military move then a econimical move there, if the russians hadn't had been so close i probably would have put it next to the forest.

(1790) Buying the Egyptian worker is definitely a good option. I wonder why Lee didn't get this? Probably something to do with his scouts and their locations/death. Odd, that.

*shrugs* i dont think i noticed this the first time through the game either.

(1750) Letting a city fall into revolt is definitely carelessness. You flat out missed it. It happens. Had you moved GR, it wouldn't have. Or had NF produced a settler/worker, it wouldn't have. Or had you noticed the city was going to grow (we still only have a handful, which isn't too many to check/remember), it wouldn't have. Definitely not being as careful as you could/should be.

After finishing the game and trying to sleep i did remember that the city was going to grow the turn before.. shot myself in the foot there. But i still don't understand the reason behind it. I never had that problem in lower games. happiness is still something i really don't understand in this game. And why does 1 unhappy citizen against 2 or 3 content throw the city into revolt ?? to me makes no sense. I now see why the GR move would have stopped it with the luxuries, but the core problems remains for me. I don't understand what made that citizen unhappy since the city could grow to 6 and it was only at 4 ( think that's what it grew to)

If you actually purchased writing for that exhorbitant cost, that would be major weed indeed. As it is, just noting it is fine. The cost an AI charges depends on relative military, attitude, relative culture, and possibly some other things. It certainly fluctuates from turn to turn. And from AI civ to AI civ! Did you check with them all? Ghandi's been our best provider, of late.

yes i checked with them all.. and hell no i didn't pay that extortion. Just noted it to kick myself with... Even Ghandi wanted that amount. It seemed once i got off writing they all wanted to ream me.

Just to let ya guys know.. im a night dweller. I usually goto bed around 6am MST and don't get home till around midnight MST.
So my replies might seem to take forever.. but its just my hours.
 
Greetings,
I am a complete newbie to SGs, but have been reading a lot of the interesting threads here for the past 2 weeks. I noticed you guys were getting light on the shadow turns, so decided to do one myself -- if you need another official participant, let me know-- i am eager to learn.

I have been reading a lot of the "always war" scenarios, so i might come off as a real war-monger -- really im only a semi-war-monger. I have only completed 1 chieftan and 3 warlord games. with a good starting position warlord is so easy, but i have been getting bad starting pos, and its been a challenge to stay alive and keep up with the other civs. moving on to monarch next, but i dont have _that_ much time to play, so i thought SGs would be a great idea (get the CivIII fix without living on the computer).
 
(0) 1750 BC - This is a truly wierd shadow turn - I am following myself :crazyeye:
I do switch to the Arathon suggest, and put the worker on the hill and 20% luxuries.
Science has to go to 10% to keep minimum science gambit going.
I establish an embassy with India, and sign a RoP for $44 (all cash)
!We have twice the number of cities as India.
I establish an embassy with Russia - Colossus in 9 turns -
I want to see if Russian can build a little cash before trying the RoP.
(I) The AI picks the forest for Salamanca growth - I agree - Still +4 food.
The key is spearman in 3 turns 7*3=21 shields - very little wastage.
Using the grasslands = 4*6 = 24 shield - more wastage, and takes longer.
+4 food is still a strong growth city.
Plus we need to start pumping out defenders.


(1) 1725 BC - Two workings start irragting the plains there are on.
It is a dead square with where I plan to put the city, but somethings this happens with water.
Again kill a barb north of nf - no promotion.
Establish an embassy with Egypt - AI stupidity proven again -
Thebes is size 1, grows in 6, settler in 8 :crazyeyes:
They must have just completed a settler, as there is one sitting in the city.
We sign a RoP with Egypt for $50.
This gives us enough cash reserve to establish an Embassy with China and keep cash reserves.
AI Stupidity again - Size 1, grows in 4, settler in 4.
We sign a RoP with China for $50 - Gee that amount sounds fimiliar.
Russia as a mere $3, still waiting.


(2) 1700 BC - Russia gained $1 - I will wait forever to get cash.
I sign the RoP for $4
The good news - Russian has no horses or iron.
(I) Oil spring starts temple - at some point I would like the ability to trade our spare silks.


(3) 1675 BC - oi worker goes north.
plains worker orders road.
2nd moves se to start irragating a tile the city will use.
Tonawanda is formed - No clear build - go with temple.
(I) Salamanca completes spearman - orders another.


(4) 1650 BC - I will conceded a careless - when I moved the worker, I failed to consider what squares Tonawanda would occupy.
Worker moves ne
oi worker starts road - I am not sure how long until we connect the Iron, but I want to be one road segment away.


(5) 1625 BC - alleg workers - west to shielded grassland.
Towanda worker - irragate plains
Salamanca warrior n - search for barb camp.
nf setler now five turns - I agree with using the plains.
luxuries to 10% for 1 turn - thanks to road to Allegheny - this silks are washing with the whip.
India / China get math.
Buy math from India for $84.
Sell math to Egypt for $66 - Math for $22 seems a good deal to me.
It pays to know a AI loaded with cash.

:rotfl:
I never tried this before - I offer China $6 to get $5 - they would NEVER accept such a deal.
(I) Cattaraugus orders a worker - we are still light, and with the cow for growth....
Russia forms the city by wines.


(6) 1600 BC - alleg workers - mining
Change alleg from hill to shield grassland - temple in 5, growth in 6 - I waited a turn to get the temple before growth since the whip effect is still in the city.
tonaw worker to the plains spot.
BLAST - Russia has polytheism - science gambit failed.
India also has it.
China / Egypt have to little cash.
Is the 40 turn science bit a waste of time?
As expected - luxuries back to 20%
(I) Salamanca will work an undevloped tile in 5 turns.
It has fast city growth - order another worker.


(7) 1575 BC - Salamanca spear moves toward Alleg.
Tonawanda worker - road - tag team with 2 turns left isn't that big of a deal.
oi worker - e
Whip temple in gr -
1) will cross culture with the city of Bangalore
2) culture growth will disperse the barb camp before we get an uprising.
Poly is pricy - do we just wait 23 turns?
(I) Gr orders PLACEHOLDER barracks.
I really want a harbor, the tech should appear before this completes.


(8) 1550 BC - Nothing to report
(I) The worker build in Salamanca does slow down a spearman by 1 turn this time.
However, we really needed that worker.
Russia starts the Pyramids - right after completing the Colossus.
I don't think Russia can get a 20000 point city with emperor ;)


(9) 1525 BC - Switch Tonawanda to the irragated plains -
shield wasted for the moment, but when the road completes it may gain a dollar.
1 tonaw worker s to another plains.
salam worker sw to grassland by river
Scout by ivory area finds a barb camp.
Spearman fortifies in Allegheny.
(I)BITE ME RnG - Horseman pops our of barb camp - ransacks 28 gold.
NF ordered another settler


(10) 1500 BC - Irragate by Tonawanda
Mine by Salamanca.
Our scout by the barb camp was ignored :confused:
nf settler heads w - with spare warrior escort.
Heading toward the area left for a first ring city.
Spearman from Allegheny heading toward gr.
We will probably get screwed again by barbs.


Summary - A lot of this game could be decided by which AI gets the horses and iron near Kiev.
Cattaraugus needs a temple next - we need culture defense vs. 2 Russian cities.

Question for Arathon - Checking trade screen every turn is very time consuming.
At what point in emperor can you cut the trade screen check rate?


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/lotr3-shadow-LKendter-1500BC.zip


possible :smoke: Salamanca worker?
At +4 food this was the best choice even if it slowed down military.
 
@Jbob42


I got completed confused reading your shadow

D9Phoenix played to 1500 BC.

That was the time frame to be played to.
Welcome aboard, but please watch the time frames carefully.

I stopped reading when I realized it would be future knowledge, but not all will realize that.

Can you please edit your post to "post cleared".
Seeing the future is very bad in any civ game
 
I got confused as well.. i had to go back and grab all my pads to figure out why your dates were off. I stopped reading once i figured it out.

Also we usually wait till Arathorn gives the go ahead to start on the next turn. I want even play my next turn till i get my report card back :lol:
 
I hate to say it, but I have to withdraw form this training. The primary reason is that my job is sending me away for two months. I'll be able to play civ3, but I won't have internet access, so there isn't much I can do.

Also, I don't think I'm cut out for emperor. I have recently moved up to monarch and I'm having success, but this training isn't too enjoyable for me, so I think I'm not ready for the type of intense analysis winning at this level takes (I do that sort of thinking at work every day).

I'll still be following the thread and trying to learn all I can. Thanks Arathorn, and I'll hopefully see you all again in other SG's in a few months.
 
Thanks LK, I figured that if an official post with save file was made on the official thread, that it would now be time to play shadows FORWARD from that date.

So the official thread could represent "future knowledge" to our shadow games (if we havent played yet).

understand better now! thanks for the tips :) i saved my commentary and file, so i will just repost when arathorn gives the go-ahead.

as stated before-- i can take a official rotation if needed -- thanks again!
 
(0) 1750 - Upped science and luxury taxes to 10% -- put the Allegheny scientist to work on the gold hills. It's growing again (slowly) and we're losing some gold per turn (gaining less per turn, acually). It doesn't actually affect the time to temple, because of corruption.

I seriously debated switching Salamanca to a granary. If we weren't in such tight quarters and didn't have a food glut in NF, I would've. As it it, I stay with barracks.

I do switch Allegheny to granary, though. The temple in GR will expand Allegheny's borders, too, so one of them can wait. Since the GR temple also gets the fish, it's the Allegheny one that can be replaced.

(I) Sala completes barracks and begins spearman. I have the choice between 6 shields and 7 -- working mined grass or forest. I'm gonna do one turn of high food and then work the forest twice (6+7+7 = 20). This maximizes the effect of Sala.

(1) 1725 - I didn't realize there was already a worker irrigating the plains NW of the settler and I start a road. Oh well.

Warrior moves one SE and settler mimics once the all-clear is given. Warrior in GR fortifies. Full-strength warrior N of NF attacks the barb -- and wins without a scratch. The other is going to finish the retreat back to NF -- as a guard against AI aggression.

I establish an embassy with Ghandi (30 gold), who has a settler awaiting food/pop to be built -- in 5 turns. I then sell him a RoP for all 44 gold he has.

I'm an idiot, though, and forget to move the Sala citizen -- not noticed until too late.

(2) 1700 - Warrior/settler pair SE -- warrior first, of course. Continue scouting. One NF warrior is working his way N/NW to try to use defendable terrain and spot the barbs.

We have 128 gold -- that's a lot. I just hope we don't get extorted too much too early.

(I) OS completes warrior and begins a granary.

(3) 1675 - OS warrior fortifies. Worker near there goes two NE to other bonus grass. Warrior in NF fortifies. Other warrior continues N.

Tonawanda founded near the sea. It immediately begins working the grass shared with OS, which is ideal for growth. A worker is ordered, but I'm not entirely happy with it. If/when we go to war, I might need a barracks, but we're getting low on workers.

Warrior defends the city. Scouts scout.

I *NOW* notice my error in Salamanca. Changing to the forest now would only compound it. I switch to a temple instead (5 turns at 6 shields = necessary 30).

In some instances, it's necessary to swallow the shield loss and build what is needed. In others, I try to maximize the value of my shields. In this case, a temple will also be necessary to help with happiness, so I'm content to make the switch.

(4) 1650 - Both workers between NF and T are done. I send one SW of Sala (across the river) to the grass there. The other moves east to a square T can use. Worker on bonus grass mines. A couple warriors fortify.

At this point, I'm only checking China diplomatically, because they're usually the first to get a tech -- and my patience for every turn diplo with every nation is wearing thin.

(5) 1625 - Worker on plains by T irrigates. Worker on grass by Sala mines. Workers on gold split -- both going to bonus grass.

Warrior N of NF is on a mountain and sees a barb horse -- but only one.

Gotta check cities as a couple were due to grow and Allegheny is now connected to the luxury.

Sala is unhappy. I move a citizen from forest to grass, though, as the temple will complete in one turn either way. Lux tax will have to be increased. NF happy, but I move the citizen from the mined plains to the irrigated flood plains to give faster growth (people = power). I can put Allegheny back on growth, now that the luxury is being imported. I move Catt over to growth (bonus grassland, not the forest).

I have to up lux tax to 20% to keep Sala from rioting.

China has math for 90 (79) gold. Russia doesn't but only has 7 gold. India 90 (76) gold. Egypt 90 (82) gold. This can wait. But I worry if it does, we'll get extorted for money. I buy it from Ghandi for 76 gold. Waiting might be the better option, however.

(I) Sala produces temple and begins spear (6/6/8 approach). Barb horse appears to be ignoring our warrior.

(6) 1600 - NF warrior NW to hills. Bonus grass both being mined. Scouts scouting. One down SE might be toast, as there's a barb horsie two away. Fortunately, there's a Chinese warrior who might get closer.

Polytheism appears this turn. I definitely shoulda waited on math. Oh well. Mao 110 (98). Egypt doesn't have it. Hey -- but they have 81 gold -- a barter opportunity. India wants 110 (94). Russia somehow got math and 329 gold and Polytheism (They must've discovered it and shopped it.) OK, I buy from Ghandi for 94 and sell to Egypt (a now-or-never opportunity) for all 81 gold she has.

I then turn science OFF -- to zero. Since the temple finished in Sala, I can turn lux tax down to 10%, too.

I also decide to do some embassies/RoP action -- especially with Russia. It costs 32 gold to establish an embassy in Russia. Colussus finishes in 3 turns -- maybe two when the city grows. Cathy pays 21 gold for a RoP. It costs $37 to establish an embassy in China. Their settler is done, awaiting food to grow in 3 turns. Mao pays all $44 he has for a RoP. Egypt is broke, so I wait.

Total cost -- $17.

(I) Warrior in the north defeats barb horse with no damage. Scout in SE dies a grisly death. Catt finishes warrior and begins a worker.

(7) 1575 - Warrior in north fortifies, as there's another barb horsie nearby. Last scout goes south.

(I) Lose one hp to barb but heal immediately afterwards.

(8) 1550 - Warrior in north goes west -- sticking to hills. Scout finds gold to the south -- Egypt has a lot of nice land down this way. I'm jealous.

Sala should switch to forest, but it's due to grow in one and if the AI is smart, the forest will be worked. I chance it and don't change it. Everything else looks good. Russia (since they have a ton of cash) is my current diplo check.

(I) Another barb horse and Sala completes spear right on schedule. Another spear ordered. Russians are building the Pyramids and have completed Colossus.

(9) 1525 - Spear in Sala fortifies -- need MP here and a good defense in the capital is nice. Plus, it's centrally located and relatively easy to send anywhere.

Worker in plains starts road. North warrior fortifies for help. Scout scouts.

City changes -- Sala to 6/6/8 plan again and Tonawanda to irrigated plains for a shield lost to waste (but a road will appear before too long).

(I) Defeat barb -- still no promotion.

(10) 1500 - Worker on grass by OS begins road.

Wake north warrior and send him one north -- spots barb camp on flatlands.

Final city check -- all looks good -- settler from NF should probably head north, as the Russians took the land bridge with the cow (putting a big target on their foreheads, IMO).

Egypt has caught us in cities -- wow! And Cleo has extra horses, if/when that becomes an issue. Russia is also equal in cities. India is two cities behind, as is China. Not bad -- really, quite good.

Arathorn

Save at http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/lotr3-shadow-Arathorn-1500bc.zip
 
(1750) - 20% lux is not needed. 10% is enough (working the roaded gold hill -- always work the best available square under certain parameters).

You can do a little better than 7*3=21 if you care to micromanage carefully. 7+7+6=20, as I noted, which means you can squeak the occasional food out. Is it worth it? In a couple cities, I try to do it (bit I sometimes mess up and miss it). Still, it's a good observation.

(1725) Nice job with the embassies and RoP. It's rare in Emperor/Deity to be ahead in land area but we need to take advantage of what we've got.

(1700) OS doesn't need culture NOW -- it can wait. Yes, we will want that second set of silks online and available to trade -- but we're still a ways from having railnets connected. It can wait, so it should. A worker, granary, or barracks would make more sense -- more immediate need.

(1650) Tut-tut. Oh well, careless worker moves happen. Everybody messes 'em up sometimes. OTOH, I can't argue with a road towards the iron.

(1625) Ummm...84-66=18, not 22. But, yes, a good deal. Being able to play broker saves a lot on costs.

Catt on worker -- absolutely.

(1600) The min sci gambit is quite frequently a waste of time/effort. At certain phases, it can pay off. This time, it didn't, but it only cost ~$10 total to try, so it's not a total loss. Running zero science is always a reasonable option.

Another worker in Sala? Cool, we need more. We're getting behind.

(1575) Why the spear towards Allegheny? I don't understand the move, but I'm not claiming :smoke:, just expressing confusion.

Whipping a temple in GR is questionable. The extra culture gets the fish and fills the border with Allegheny earlier. OTOH, it's just a second-ring city, so it will not be too high corruption and we're giving up one citizen working a tile for nearly forever.

Does getting the fish 20 turns earlier make up for it? Well, under despotism, a fish produces 2/0/2 (no harbor), which is only slightly better than a non-bonus grassland. No catch-up there. The culture expansion can wait 20 turns. This is sub-optimal.

Under the 20 shield rule, whipping is relegated to a few situations -- very VERY corrupt cities, huge food locations, desperation, and probably a few others. This is not one of them.

(1550) If the spear is going to take 4 turns, you might look at MMing down to 5 shields to get extra food faster and get back to 3 turns again. I don't argue with the worker order, though. We're short on land improvements.

(1500) Spear to GR makes sense. The warrior just died, huh? That's unfortunate.

Scouting looks fine. I put NF on high food -- trying to get up to a bit larger city, as larger is better -- and self-sustaining in NF. But getting another city going faster is hardly an ignoble goal. Two routes....

I've stopped checking every civ every turn. I still usually check one wealthy civ, to see what's out there, so I don't miss out on early deals (like your purchase-and-sell swap with Mathematics) for a while, but not every civ. Early MA is usually when I am the most techs behind.... And I'm trying to avoid that here.

City management: B (whip, pithy micro in Sala missed)
Military: B (solid -- too bad about the barb pillage but kinda out of your control)
Techs: B+ (excellent job with math -- too bad polytheism so wonky in your shadow. Probably expensive because China and Egypt can't afford it yet)
Diplo: A (embassies and RoP with most nations -- plus gold, very good)
City placement: B (very solid)

Overall: A-

Arathorn
 
REPOST:

LotR 3 Emprorer training shadow turn (1500Bc)


Pre-turn:
idle worker near Oil Springs -> road
luxuries down to 10%, extra 10% has no benefit

1500-1475:
ack! GR gets ransacked by a barbie horseman (1hp left) 26 gold stolen, town is empty

(1) 1475:
move warrior from allegeny to GR to stop barb raids.
warrior in north mountains will fortify on hill to await new iron city
scout se, s (on horses) going to scout areas south of egypt
settler and spearman 4 moves to coastal city spot.
diplo: traded RoP to china for their entire treasury (25 gold)

1475-1450:
Salmanca start rioting -- it grew and i didnt check!

(2) 1450:
luxuries back to 20%
scout se, s (on mountain) spot elite china archer
workers near tonawanda -> road recently irrigated tile

1450-1425:
argh. GR ransacked again 30 gold.
Allegheny riots -- something about cruel oppression, move to gold hill or 30% lux? I chose the lux 30%

(3) 1425:
luxuries 30%
workers allegheny - NW to continue road to GR.
new settler - north 4 turns to found iron city.
switch salmanca to worker (need to complete road to iron city and new coast city)
worker oil springs - 4 turns north of NF to build road to coast.
scout s on mountain

1425-1400:
culture expansion at oil springs, allegheny and grand river! (dispersing camp).

(4) 1400:
workers tonawonda - south adjacent to city to irrigate and then road.

1400-1375:
egypt visits wants 70 and WM for code of laws and 100 and WM for mapmaking (decide to wait and shop arround)
GR attacked by barb horse -- warrior down to 1 point. adjacent barb conscript warrior.

(5) 1375:
salmanca makes worker, switch to spearman; worker moves north to mountain to begin road.
NF makes warrior, switch to barracks? (maybe tireme after mapmaking) warrior fortifies.
fortify warrior in GR.
mauch chunk founded. spearman fortified. temple begun
scout east (still in egypt territory)

1375-1350:
ok, 3rd time GR ransacked. 30 gp
scout witnesses founding of el-armana in adjacent tile.
our people want the FP , a few trireme barb arround

(6) 1350:
scout east
diplo: india cheapest tech prices 40 gp and WM for code of laws
china use WM and 90 gp for mapmaking
russia refuse world map trade (they want 30!)
egypt: WP trade for only 7, i accept and get view of continent!
russia now sell WM to them for 16 gold and thier WM :)
india: 15 gp for our WM
china: 10 gp for our WM

1350-1325:
egypt demands 24 gold and territory map. i refuse, they declare war. figure it is a while for them to cross russia and then the jungle.

(7) 1325:
diplo:
russia: alliance vs. egypt impossible
china: wants 110 gold and WM -- i dont accept.
new warrior in OS, switch to walls; warrior fortifies.
cattagur - switch from to walls.
allegheny - nothing, spearman will move from salamanca to here. granary to far along for walls.
chunk - vet spearman will be useful on front, emptying city and heading south to allegheny. 8 turns.
scout - east - path blocked by worker north of ramses
luxuries to 20%
workers GR - north to shielded square adjacent to city
workers tonowanda - road adjacent to city (just fniished irrigation)
St. Regis founded on warrior hill next to iron; temple started.


1325-1300:
scout toasted by chariot
growth at Oil springs (walls in 4 now instead of 9)
(8) 1300:
new vet spearman at salmanca, order another. spearman to oil springs.

1300-1275: only barb triremes.

(9) 1275:
catta produces walls. switch to spearman.
tonawanda builds temple, order up barracks.
workers finish road to tonawands, move to help build road to st.regis and iron.

1275-1250: nothing!

(10) 1250:
worker NF - north to gold hill, for road.
spearman reaches OS, fortifies
diplo: russia has philosophy and wants 170, china has 82gp and india 46gp but no philo
i decide to try to get philo for a net -50 <shrug>
russia - haggle down to WM and 155 for philo
china - best i could get was 55 gold - with or without WM, so took the WM
india - 46 gold for philo. so got it for 54 gold
End of turn.

save game:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/lotr3-shadow-Jbob-1250BC.zip
 
Pret-turn -- good moves. Both were important -- I missed the worker. You should also check the build decisions to see if you agree with them before playing. In particular, NF is off on a bad tangent.

Did you notice the warrior by the barb camp in the north? Did he do anything? You either should have had him attack or move the other warrior up as a back-up before attacking. Doing anything else is rather ... a non-productive use of your assets.

(1475) -- Rioting is a constant problem. I try to keep an eagle eye on my largest city or two and see how they're doing. Emperor is much worse than Monarch at this -- it's hard to keep cities happy. And since it's usually the capital (largest city) that riots, well, it's a big loss.

(1425) - Moving the A warrior towards GR helped incite this riot. It might be a smart thing, but he was going to arrive too late to help, since the culture was going to frag the camp and there was no road to the area. About the only good option was to buy everything in sight, but there wasn't even much to buy. Sucks to lose so much gold to barbs, but there's little that's smart to do instead.

Try to keep workers local -- each turn a worker isn't doing something, it's a waste of his time. OS needs more development, as will Salamanca...and a road to the iron is going to be important before TOO long. Sending the worker on a four-turn trip to find worker is very inefficient. Sala on a worker might be good, but Sala is our only barracks-equipped city, so it probably would make more sense to have it working on a somewhat-more-advanced military to defend our cities.

(1375) NF should never have been allowed to build its warrior. NF has one great strength -- food! And it should capitalize on that strength. NF should be building workers, settlers, and/or a granary and nothing else until all available land is settled and our worker force is large enough. Accentuate the positive and all that. Read some of the earlier reviews for my full rant on this subject....

(1350) Not a bad set of trades -- not at all. Our world map had some value, but it was going to keep dropping. Since we didn't have any secrets we wanted to keep, I whole-heartedly agree with trading it away for max value. Two techs and a more complete world map $96 -- better was marginally possible but it's a good deal all the way around. And India/China were the beneficiaries, which is the correct way to go.

(I) We are not ready for war. We have one city with barracks, no horses and no iron. Yes, it will take them a while to arrive, but once they do, they'll probably kick our poor defending regular warrior's tales -- and hard. Much cheaper would have been to simply cave. I finding giving in to demands gets pretty easy, once you've done it a dozen times (or failed to and died a few times -- I've gone that route, too). When you think about it, barbs took ~28 gold three times during your reign -- one more to prevent a war isn't really very costly at all. Definitely not a good move.

(1325) Ouch on Russia not being amenable to an alliance -- that would've really saved our bacon some. The rest of your war preparations look pretty good -- especially emptying Chunk. Of course, with map making shopped, it's quite possible an amphibuous assault will arrive. We're just really not ready for this war. I would've paid China to fight it for us. The cost would be lower, overall. Barracks are a reasonably good alternative to walls, as the increased healing/upgrade ability is often more useful than the bonus defense, but they do take longer.

(1275) Did you not notice the iron between OS, A, and Sala? That would've been faster/easier to connect.

Cities without barracks don't produce very good war units. Catta should probably either build a barracks or a catapult (since artillery weapons have no experience, they can be built in no-barracks cities without worries) (but I'm not sure we have mathematics yet).

(1250) Good purchases here. $54 for a non-cheap tech like Philosophy is not bad at all. Too bad Egypt couldn't be in the loop, too.

Overall, you made some mistakes with city management and the war with Egypt but it's pretty solid.

Arathorn
 
Inherited Turn:
Domestic Advisor - Cattaraugus is a problem, and will require 50% luxury tax to prevent it going into disorder this turn. All other cities only require 10%. Because of the resultant waste of money through luxury taxes, I hire a scientist in Cattaraugus as we have no science output whatsoever right now, and drop luxury tax from 20% to 10%. Science remains at 0%.
I review construction and training projects. Heavy emphasis on temples and granaries, I see no reason to change these. I leave the "swordsman prototype" warrior building at St Regis, who will complete this turn.
Priority project to road to Grand River and the incense to make an extra luxury available to our empire.
Our military is average compared to all other known civs.
I do wonder why we're researching Monarchy. Are we anticipating a war at some point in the future? I decide not to change as I'm sure one of the AI's will be heading our way once they've finished expanding.
Our MAJOR weakness - No horses for our mounted warriors. Our UU will be useless once chivalry is discovered.
Press spacebar.
Salamanca builds an archer. About time we got a granary going there, so I switch to that.
St Regis completes it's warrior, and begins a temple.

(1) 1225BC
There is no need yet for extra military police in St Regis, so the warrior there is sent NE into the mountain to keep an eye out for barbarians.
Second warrior moves N onto another mountain, another barbarian lookout.
Worker begins road to mine SW of Cattaraugus.
Scout wanders around in the jungle, keeping watch over that Russian settler.
I decide that the archer in Salamanca would be best used in Cattaraugus or Oil Springs. My feeling is that the Russians should be our first target as they are close to us, and have access to horses at Moscow. I decide on Cattaraugus - Minsk would be our first target for any future attack.
Worker begins last section of road to connect Grand River.

(2) 1200BC
Allegheny grows to 3, all content. Two citizens are working unimproved tiles - prime sites for worker improvements.
The worker at Niagra Falls completes irrigation (I think) there. Since the city needs to grow substantially to use all the improved tiles there, I send the worker there towards Allegheny, which is in dire need of improvements.
Worker near Tonowanda moves NW, to irrigate the plains there next turn.
The Russian settler seems to be stuck. The scout keeps watch.
Two warriors to the North wander from mountain top to mountain top, keeping watch for barbarian camps.

(3) 1175BC
Russia is still the only civ with Philosophy and requests World Map + 170 gold for it. I decline, and wait for it to be brokered around.
Archer moves through Allegheny en route to Cataragus.
Worker begins irrigating plains next to Tonowanda.
Warriors scout for barbarians.
Oil Springs completes barracks and starts a spearman. If we decide to attack Russia, we will need defence here.
Two Russian warrior/settler pairs are sighted by our scout, heading in our direction.

(4) 1150BC
Worker in position to mine a shielded grassland next to Allegheny.
Worker and warrior at Cattaragus move into position to mine the other shielded grassland there.
Egypt wants a territory map swap. I notice they also have Philosophy now, so will wait until my turn to trade.
Aaaaaargh! I fail to notice Salamanca growth, and it riots.

(5) 1125BC
Luxuries up to 20% to get Salamanca back in line.
Worker at Allegheny completes mine, moves into position to assist a worker with a second mine there.
Worker (moved from New River) starts mine at Allegheny.
Worker starts mining near Cattaraugus.
Scout watches Russian warrior/settler pairs.
All known civs have Philosophy. Ghandi only has 4 gold in his treasury, so I buy it from him for 50 gold (negotiated down from World Map + 60 gold).
Order restored at Salamanca.

(6) 1100BC
Mine next to Salamanca completed. Road started.
Second worker adds to mining effort next to Allegheny.
Archer reaches Cattaraugus. I could fire the scientist there, but any shields gained are lost to corruption, so the scientist remains.
One of the Russian warrior/settler pairs has scarpered back into Russia, I monitor the other one with the scout.
I fortify the two barbarian lookouts on mountains.
No new trades.
I check the science slider to see how quickly we can get Monarchy, but it is a pointless exercise. Just keep the one scientist going, and save TONS of gold.
Egypt begins the Pyramids.

(7) 1075BC
Worker completes irrigation at Tonawanda, starts road.
Worker completes road to Grand River, moves onto incense to connect it up. Turns out that this is :smoke: as CNTL+SHIFT+M reveals Grand River is built on top of incense. Ugh!
No trades available.
Having established that incense is connected up, I lower luxury tax from 20% to 10%.
Niagra Falls completes granary, starts settler.
Allegheny completes granary, starts worker. We are definitely short of workers.

(8) 1050BC
Russians founded Tblisi. Scout moved out of Russian territory.
Worker at Grand River starts a road to a second incense source.
I renew our right of passage agreement with India for 24 gold.
Salamanca completes it's granary and starts a spearman. We need some more troops to defend our cities and block Russian settler/spearman pairs coming through our territory.
Oil Springs builds a spearman and starts a granary. It's next to a river so fast population growth is a plus.

(9) 1025BC
Worker at Salamanca completes mine. Moved SW to mine the other grassland tile.
Cattaraugus completes it's temple, starts a barracks. I see this city being an invasion front, so quick healing of troops there will be a plus.

(10) 1000BC
Mine at Allegheny completed. Both workers starts roading.
Worker at Tonawanda completes a road and is moved into position to mine the desert next to New River - an extra shield there.
Worker begins mining grassland SW of Salamanca.
No further trades available.


File: LOTR3 - Arizona_Steve - 1000BC
 
Preturn:
First thing is first, forget everything about my shadow turn and resurvey the land.
Reread last official turn, come up with goals:

1) settle the jungle if possible -- just to keep the russians from getting it.
2) settle the north- looks like we can get 2 cities in there, 1 on incense, 1 on bonus grassland
3) road to mauch chunk, so that it can grow via whale without dissent
4) road to catta to calm current dissent, although by the time this happens, sala will need the
20% lux anyway.
4) build a boat to seek new life and new civilizations <shrug> and claim those elephants!


catta is going to riot next turn :( decide to move warrior back exposing worker,
this allows lux rate to go to 10% for a few turns
check deal for philo -- if other civs get 30 more gold, will try to buy and shop philo
switch archer in sala to spear
consider switching st.reg to something other than warrior, but decide that he will
be good for morale there.
(i) not much! just some barb triremes

1 1225BC
spear done in sala, doing 7-7-6 maneuvering for another spear
finished spear goes to Allegheny to garrison there.
warrior done in gr - order up a granary, as irrigation to this city will take some time.
warrior north atop mountain to view the coastline
GR worker roads
Catta warrior fortifies (2 there now)
Catta worker roads (might as well to generate the $ before moving off)
scout stays put.
check diplo. looks like civs might have enough $
russians: trade 156gp to them for philo and WM (was 155 just philo)
china: trade philo and wm for 59gp
india: trade philo and wm for 55gp (whole treasury) ghandi calls it robbery
egypt: trade philo and wm for 43gp and WM (to see across landbridge?)
philo and russian/egyptian WMs and +1 gp :)
(i) road to tonawanda complete!

2 1200BC
NF worker - anticipating settlers here, moves on to make road to mauch chunk
argh! lack of construction costs a move.
Tona worker - tona needs a square in 7 turns, so move to irrigate nw plain
scout - mirrors russians (stays still)
sala - working the forest
north warrior, likes the view and stays put
(i) russian warrior appears. going to backup the settler :(

3 1175BC
NF worker - N
tona worker - irrigate
scout - no movement
north warrior - sets up encampent on northernmost mountain (fortify)
spear arrives at A, fortifies, growth this turn would not have caused riot
diplo
russians: WM for WM
egypt: WM for WM (few more squares down the ithsmus - barb camp and green hills!
china: WM for 2gp
india: WM for 2gp
(i) another russian settler/warrior pair shows up. first warrior hooks up with first settler.

4 1150BC
indians look to settle across from GR.
sala completes spear, change to settler (have to try to beat russians!)
OS completes barracks, changed to spear
ok.. complicated MM here-- move NF off of mine, put sala on it. sala was going to grow
anyway. after settler is complete (in 3 instead of 4), then i can replace NF on the mine
and can get the granary done in 5 before growth in 7 (3, 3, 3, 5, 1(waste 4)
- note to switch mine back to sala on 5th turn
NF worker - road
spear to catta - freeing up warrior in 6 turns
catta worker - north of catta to grassland for road to A
scout - stands still, but fears russian movement next turn
(i) notice barb camp is gone in south on isthmus
russians move S back into their territory! next pair moves up to same pos.

5 1125BC
A worker - completes mine and moves S (for road to catta)
catta worker - road
after settler in sala, we can lux to 10%
(i) india founds jaipur
russia moves NW!

6 1100BC
A worker - Road
scout stays put
sala worker completes mine - works road while there
diplo - nobody has any techs (been checking russia every turn)
(i) russians found tblisi on coast and may try to capture-steal second silks there

7 1075BC
settler in sala completes early thanks to mine and growth pop now 5
moves to nice cushy spot in the middle of the jungle to lock borders with russia
scout moves across river to city site
tona worker finishes irrigation, starts road
NF worker finishes road, climbs up gold hill
GR connected on road network!
GR worker - N to bring incense
(i) nothing

8 1050BC
A completes granary - switches to worker - will complete 1 turn before growth
crap- catta riots with temple 1 turn away-- i looked at temple 2 turns and thought it was ok
hire entertainer there with 1 food square- will fix when temple comes online
Catta worker - goes N to road (N because square has bonus shield that A is working)
should have seen this earlier- A worker should be roading the other grass w/bonus
settler moves along towards A
scout fortifies (remember to unfortify)
GR worker - road on incense
MC worker - road on gold hill
(i) russian settlers show up near Catta
china was WM switch for 1 gp - i accept see a few more tiles down the isthmus

9 1025BC
OS completes spear - switching to granary - the lux here needs mined in a major way
that will be next job of tona worker, spear fortifies
switch sala to granary (only 5 turns)
sala worker - decides faster way to St. regis is NOT directly through the mountains
and begins journey to make a road through a mountain pass
spear reaches catta, warrior moves out to blockade russia settler
scout moves over to match russia as well
settler is in mountains SE of A, heading into jungle
check to see if whipping tona is prudent (harbor) still 18 turns, so too many citizens
diplo
china will give us 12 gp (entire treasury for an RoP) i takeback the offer.
(i) russians turn south
The Chinese are building the ORACLE

10 1000BC
Catta completes temple, start worker (natural growth is in 6 with rioting -
actually, road to catta will complete in 2, so no rioting, but
we need more workers!)
settler S ( 2 turns now to site, 3 to founding)
NF worker into desert to start road to St.R
tona worker comes west to mountains on road - heading south to mine the lux next
catta warrior moves SW into jungle (will end up at new city)
cool! i left north warrior in a position where 1 square could generate
a barb camp and get us some $$ - well, i just spotted the barb camp up there
worker moves north into forest, next move will be on hill NW.

(end of turn)


Treasury is arround 470, but other than that, the free Philo and WMs were all i could get!
even tech with the civs on this continent.


I didnt really accomplish many of the goals in just 10 turns, but made some progress.
settling in the middle of the jungle? is this worth it, i dont know! someday the city could
be great if we get a hoard of jungle-clearers going.



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