[RD] Love

[dusters]

You are making sense, of course.

The thing is that if you love someone and that person takes that for granted or even tries abusing you, because you love them, that's the tricky part.

 

[Moriarte]

True love is like ghosts, which everybody talks about and few have seen. (c) François de La Rochefoucauld

My guess is that you still have conditions in your unconditional love. Per the above example: a mother finds out her son is a serial killer.

1. She keeps that to herself (love, right?) and lets a son keep going on a spree. Or would she display a higher order of love and..
2. Hand him in to the police hoping he will redeem himself and change his ways through incarceration, suffering.

Which one of the two is “unconditional love” to you?

 

[dusters]

Yea, so basically does she love her son more than society? One should love equally.

If she endorses pain to others through her actions towards her son, then, of course, she would hand him to police.

 

[MaryKB]

Loving someone doesn't mean you give them whatever they want, all of the time. Knowing that your son has to go to prison for his crimes doesn't mean you don't love him.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Love isn't rational and if it catches you, there is not telling where it will take you. Gibran was a theist so his writing reflects that, but his thoughts hold true even without the religious overtones.

THEN said Almitra,

Speak to us of Love. And he raised his head and looked upon the people, and there fell a stillness upon them. And with a great voice he said:
When love beckons to you, follow him,
Though his ways are hard and steep.
And when his wings enfold you yield to him,
Though the sword hidden among his pinions may wound you.
And when he speaks to you believe in him,
Though his voice may shatter your dreams as the north wind lays waste the garden.

For even as love crowns you so shall he crucify you. Even as he is for your growth so is he for your pruning.
Even as he ascends to your height and caresses your tenderest branches that quiver in the sun,
So shall he descend to your roots and shake them in their clinging to the earth.

Like sheaves of corn he gathers you unto himself.
He threshes you to make you naked.
He sifts you to free you from your husks.
He grinds you to whiteness.
He kneads you until you are pliant;
And the he assigns you to his sacred fire, that you may become sacred bread for God’s sacred feast.

All these things shall love do unto you that you may know the secrets of your heart, and in that knowledge become a fragment of Life's heart.

But if in your fear you would seek only love's peace and love's pleasure,
Then it is better for you that you cover your nakedness and pass out of love's threshing-floor,
Into the seasonless world where you shall laugh, but not all of your laughter, and weep, but not all of your tears.

Love gives naught but itself and takes naught but from itself.
Love possesses not nor would it be possessed;
For love is sufficient unto love.

When you love you should not say, "God is in my heart," but rather, "1 am in the heart of God."
And think not you can direct the course of love, for love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.

Love has no other desire but to fulfill itself.
But if you love and must needs have desires, let these be your desires:
To melt and be like a running brook that sings its melody to the night.
To know the pain of too much tenderness.
To be wounded by your own understanding of love;
And to bleed willingly and joyfully.
To wake at dawn with a winged heart and give thanks for another day of loving;
To rest at the noon hour and meditate love’s ecstasy;
To return home at eventide with gratitude;
And then to sleep with a prayer for the beloved in your heart and a song of praise upon your lips.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I mean that is one of the reasons why I created this topic.

Say, for example, one person feels unloved, but the other person insists that she does actually love the first person. Their definitions are totally different so they have a conflict and they split up their romantic relationship. How do we use rational arguments in situations like this?

When you're at that point, rational arguments probably aren't going to cut it. That would probably be described by rationalists as having different "priors" between the people, and no objective way to calibrate between them unless they're actually willing to define "love" in an objective sense they can both agree on. Who does that?

So don't do that. Instead figure out which type of behaviors each person wants/needs from the other person, and whether both are willing to do that. One of those behaviors might be saying "I love you", and that can mean whatever it needs to mean in that context. What actually matters is how each person feels about their experiences with the other, not aligned/standardized definition of an abstract concept.

 

[warpus]

How do we make people feel loved?

1. Love yourself

2. Treat others the way you would treat yourself / would want to be treated

3. Don't expect anything in return