Low Sea Zara (Deity Isolation)

[BornInCantaloup]

^ I like it.

Spoiler :

You have iron already, are you going hard beeline ?

 

[soundjata]

^ yes

Spoiler :

Happy cap of 6-7 is good enough for the purpose of breeding 3 GS and working enough cottages to reach 100 / turn.

I calculated yesterday that in order to research 4000 of the line (IW>MC>Compass>Machinery>Optics), one should sustain an average of 100 /turn between T85 and T125.

So yay, iron hard beeline

 

[krikav]

Played on to astro and abit further T125 optics, T134 astro. Rushed the third GSci with caste.
Got good trades and although some AIs look fairly scary, things doesn't look impossible.

But... it's hot and the concentration to micromanage a large empire is lacking so:

I tried a production heavy opening.

Spoiler T50 :

AH first for the pigs, then BW and chop-chop-chop.
Ivory will be online next turn for much needed happines.
Was going to go for pottery after Fish->TW which came after BW, but there was a long chain of nasty barbs so I just went archery again.
After that, going straight for pottery feels a little off, might as well go agri right away.

11 pop
667 hammers total (+15 lost, one warrior died).
18 gpt @ 0%
25 bpt @ 100%
11 gold saved
704 beakers in research total.

 

[soundjata]

Reached T100

Spoiler :

Academy in Askum T90 and I immediately push the research slider without any calculation
Completed MC and Compass in a rush (for naughts)
Still got 2k to go (Machinery & Optics)
At least I can try building the Colossus without copper
Domestics are eager to settle a couple of extra cities but how wise is that?

33 pop. All northern cities at pop 6 (stagnating on GS or whipping a forge)
Silver city is paying good.
Kept 4 forests in the cap

Lastly if there ever was a place for National Park, it's right here in the south west corner (Fish+Deer+Copper+10 forests)
Or simply chop freaking frigates

 

[krikav]

@soundjata I think that looks good.
I would advice against settling any cities at this point, focus 100% on squeezing through the commerce bottleneck to optics.
Once caravels are moving, it can be very good to have 4 settlers ready to rumble!

At the stage you are at is one of the few moments in civ4 that it even makes sense to take citizens off food.
So working cottages instead of piggies might be a thing.

 

[soundjata]

Worry not @krikav i'm working all cottages and all piggies.

Spoiler :

On the other hand it'll be hard not settling (sheep ) but I'll try

 

[CarpoolKaraoke]

@CarpoolKaraoke

Spoiler :

Nice with GGenerals! I saw one around T97 in my game before stopping for the day too, always nice to see that.

I _think_ colossus is safe to failgold with even if you get astro, you get the failgold hammers anyway.
But the timing is ofcourse off... you want that gold for the optics run. But what can you do, the AI does throw wrenches in the gears. Nice call with the copper and all, capital can easily afford the forge whip and natural hammers are plenty.
Depending on the settling pattern and astro timeline, it might even make sense to finish it. The passive GMerchant points doesn't go away.


Impressive collection of cities, no clue how you manage that economically and still tech... Is that the ORG trait working perhaps? My general guideline is to go for 5, 6 if they are close/good and only go 7 if you find some super stellar spot. Else teching power is hurt too much.

You will be in a good position with production set up early with that play, and that might be needed... There might be some giants to tangle with abroad!

@krikav

Spoiler :

I think expanding isn't too bad as long as the core cities are matured and sufficient workers can get the new cities set up instantly.

6th city: Fish and silver -- pays by self
7th city: Fish and borrowed mine - pays for self
8th city: Deer and Sheep - doesn't pay for self, but adds to health.

 

[CarpoolKaraoke]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1L_tRSncljqpBlwK08CV6uOMz8eP5lwJmVf42n1vsrcc/edit?usp=sharing

Here is a link. Maybe people can post their numbers there?
I set up everyones t50 game as an example and I will put in my numbers now
Hammer (total) is a roughly estimate of produced hammers. Inkluding workers in production etc.
Research (total) Is the beakers of all known techs + whatever you are researching.
Probably room to add more variables as well..

View attachment 632468

And now i see that my turn 50 is long gone from the autosave.. But ill give my t100 when I get there.

@BornInCantaloup That oracle t50 into monarchy.. the more I think about it the more i like it. Seems really powerfull. Now you can just grow, whip cottage in a nice pace. The GPPs is nice aswell for a golden age guy!

How do you guys have saves/numbers for this? Is this a BUFFY feature?

... I've got an 1 AD save. Otherwise, have saves at screen shot spots ...T 38, 57, 82, 115....

 

[CarpoolKaraoke]

Played on to astro and abit further T125 optics, T134 astro. Rushed the third GSci with caste.
Got good trades and although some AIs look fairly scary, things doesn't look impossible.

Spoiler :

Nice! We arrived at Astro on the same turn.

 

[Implo]

How do you guys have saves/numbers for this? Is this a BUFFY feature

Yes I do think it is a buffy thing. You can adjust the clock in the upper rigth corner to display turns and year etc.

I think so you could also use this thing i made a while back:

Spoiler turns vs years :

Just because I had the feeling that I was in the BC's and everything felt manageable and suddenly it was 1000 AD and it felt super late.
But that is not that late.. because of the way the game make certain periods slower and faster.

 

[krikav]

I think so you could also use this thing i made a while back:

Spoiler turns vs years :

View attachment 632509

You did that one? Nice work. I have it printed out and on the wall beside my computer.

 

[soundjata]

@krikav can't work clam

Spoiler :

I failed at not settling
It's just a couple of cities ; ~5 gold maintenance each but it frees the unit cost / unit supply counters a little bit.
require pasture.

Employment for the workers!

 

[CarpoolKaraoke]

Yes I do think it is a buffy thing. You can adjust the clock in the upper rigth corner to display turns and year etc.

I think so you could also use this thing i made a while back:

Spoiler turns vs years :

View attachment 632509

Just because I had the feeling that I was in the BC's and everything felt manageable and suddenly it was 1000 AD and it felt super late.
But that is not that late.. because of the way the game make certain periods slower and faster.

Sorry, what I meant to say is - how do you all have the autosaves(?) from all the exact turns 50, 100, etc from that far back in the game?

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Sorry, what I meant to say is - how do you all have the autosaves(?) from all the exact turns 50, 100, etc from that far back in the game?

I just save along the way and lose the autosaves but you can customize the values in the following folder :
C:\[...]\Documents\My Games\Beyond the Sword
Open following file with a notebook :
CivilizationIV.ini
Adjust variables :

 

[Implo]

You did that one? Nice work. I have it printed out and on the wall beside my computer.

Yes, when I was recording games. Was nice to know on the exact turn wonders were built etc.

Haha, nice to hear that it made it to the wall! Nothing like a clean visualization of a complex topic

 

[BornInCantaloup]

I tried a production heavy opening.

So, how do you think both compare, Krikav ?

I replayed my last 4 turns to insert Granaries where they belong (in the build queues).
This is 1000 BC :

Spoiler :

But first, Granaries. Now having Writing (and stuff to overflow into), I whip a little in Lalibela and Gondar. Aksum mostly works the mines.

Spoiler :

After Granaries, it's Libraries. CRE is very nice, here, as I would prefer to minimize whips.
I'm starting to have some improved tiles, I'm still in post-Priesthood recovery, so I need to conserve my pop count.

Spoiler :

Monarchy is starting to pay off. I find it very hard to evaluate. Perhaps I change my mind again and believe it was worth it. I would never advocate to make a plan to T50 from a T0 screenshot but this was a special case. Also, I'd never know if it would pan out without trying.
Still 5 workers. 28 gold produced at 0% slider, so this is starting to feel healthy. Library in Aksum is 3 turns away. I'll turn on research then and I believe it can carry me to where I want to be.
I thought I was going Agriculture, so I have a full 4 beakers stored in that tech but. No, can't afford. Still can't afford. Worker by Lalibela is a little out of position because of that. I thought I was getting Wheat. I also want Sailing to reach the South. Those will come later. Chopping into the Library still isn't that bad.
I have started to dotmap the south and found out I want 5 more cities. It still isn't fully explored but a barb city has spawned in the fog, so that's good. Still want more workers, I have to weight that against production. I know I'm late in that area. This question is about Gondar. Gondar is a mean pump that can do 1-turn growth just like Aksum.
Confuzionism hasn't yet been founded. It would be nice if I got it but Civic + Courthouses are reason enough for me. Code of Laws is the next stop.
It's probably time to start develop the tiles south of Addis Abeba. Those require chops but I probably whip the city next turn, regardless. I'm a little worried I'll run out of things to build and chops will bury me in maintenance but Aksum needs more than 2 garrison warriors, Gondar could also use some more. Running out of things to build has been a concern. I have decaying hammers here and there, due to late infrastructure techs.

 

[soundjata]

Monarchy! Monarchy!
How many warriors do you need?

 

[BornInCantaloup]

I don't know, maybe 10 more ?

From the starting screenshot only... 19 food surplus makes me want to Oracle Monarchy and see how large Aksum can grow.

^ This is still my objective
CPK showed a size 17 Aksum on the first or second page, we can take that as a reference.

 

[CarpoolKaraoke]

So, how do you think both compare, Krikav ?

I replayed my last 4 turns to insert Granaries where they belong (in the build queues).
This is 1000 BC :

Spoiler :

But first, Granaries. Now having Writing (and stuff to overflow into), I whip a little in Lalibela and Gondar. Aksum mostly works the mines.

Spoiler :

After Granaries, it's Libraries. CRE is very nice, here, as I would prefer to minimize whips.
I'm starting to have some improved tiles, I'm still in post-Priesthood recovery, so I need to conserve my pop count.

Spoiler :

Monarchy is starting to pay off. I find it very hard to evaluate. Perhaps I change my mind again and believe it was worth it. I would never advocate to make a plan to T50 from a T0 screenshot but this was a special case. Also, I'd never know if it would pan out without trying.
Still 5 workers. 28 gold produced at 0% slider, so this is starting to feel healthy. Library in Aksum is 3 turns away. I'll turn on research then and I believe it can carry me to where I want to be.
I thought I was going Agriculture, so I have a full 4 beakers stored in that tech but. No, can't afford. Still can't afford. Worker by Lalibela is a little out of position because of that. I thought I was getting Wheat. I also want Sailing to reach the South. Those will come later. Chopping into the Library still isn't that bad.
I have started to dotmap the south and found out I want 5 more cities. It still isn't fully explored but a barb city has spawned in the fog, so that's good. Still want more workers, I have to weight that against production. I know I'm late in that area. This question is about Gondar. Gondar is a mean pump that can do 1-turn growth just like Aksum.
Confuzionism hasn't yet been founded. It would be nice if I got it but Civic + Courthouses are reason enough for me. Code of Laws is the next stop.
It's probably time to start develop the tiles south of Addis Abeba. Those require chops but I probably whip the city next turn, regardless. I'm a little worried I'll run out of things to build and chops will bury me in maintenance but Aksum needs more than 2 garrison warriors, Gondar could also use some more. Running out of things to build has been a concern. I have decaying hammers here and there, due to late infrastructure techs.

Spoiler :

I only reached your T71 tech/gold situation on T82, with an Academy settled on T84. Considering Optics comes around T124 and stable science ratio is around 50%, I'd say your position is a hard win, assuming you can drop the great prophet in favor if two consecutive great scientists for Astro via Caste System.


Edit: wait, hang on. How about writing immediately after Monarchy? There's no point in a metropolis if there's no academy in it

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Interesting, thanks.

Spoiler :

I don't see that far (Optics).
On the Great Profit : I will be bulbing Philo. So I could use it on a Golden Age eventually. Maybe even run some Merchants in Aksum to absorb deficit.
Or just try to outrun it with other cities, right. Both options are conceivable. I don't know
I know that there are some very high food cities in the south buand that I'm not building settlers before I get CoL (pigs/copper ; fish/copper/deer ; 2fish/2silver ; pigs/wheat).