LP1: That's the wrong end of the gun

[vranasm]

I made dotmap in the game so we can see those BFC of your suggested cities easily. I have to say that I like your thoughts.
It's 8 cities and I think with 5 cities we will be close to "bankrupt", so we should place priorities.

I would connect City 2 with worker ASAP to get trade income there.

edit: I dont see there need for rush, we have plenty of room. so connecting of horses doesnt seem like priority, but we definitely need archers for defense.

 

[ChuckDizzle]

I've got the file. I'll play tonight, and post my turns. If nobody objects, I'll go masonry then wheel, as suggested above, allowing us to hook up the stone and give us a shot at the early wonders.

Edit: Problem fixed. Have the save, it works. Hooray.

 

[dalamb]

@ChuckDizzle: I think even without your problems loading the save, you ought to wait for a bit more discussion. I'm running 3.19 and had no problems loading.

What a lot of desert! With no copper, and the AIs far away, I don't think there's a chance for any sort of rush.

Now that BW is in the worker should chop a second worker after finishing the pigs. After that I think we need a production city, and the location northeast of the capital in vranasm's dotmap looks reasonable (it might be nice to use different colours for the cities, so it's easier to say which ones we mean). For that city, the FPs need to be farmed instead of cottaged, I think, to give enough food to work those plains and desert hills. Some of the other proposed cities are seriously lacking in ; cottaging those floodplains further north would be good, but the city there needs to have those desert hills in range. I suggest 1E of the river mouth, which gets the gold hill and the two desert hills.

The scouts need to explore the region northwest of a line that joins them; if there's somebody in there, the ivory is in jeopardy. After that -- I've heard the advice to explore the coastlines and fill in the interior later, since that opens up possible trade connections. Which also means that Sailing could be a priority, especially since it also gives us the UB (and one more in a food-poor capital). Without copper, it might also be important to go for iron working soon. But I agree wheel > pottery is important to do before that; not sure how soon we need Masonry.

While waiting for pottery, the capital should generate warriors for fogbusting. I'm certainly not the warfare expert, but I'm fairly sure I've heard people recommend postponing Archery and using chariots for barbarian protection; perhaps the horse city to the east is worth planting soon -- although I've also heard that one should "settle towards the AIs," which would suggest going north.

I'm finding that it's hard to view the screenshots; even at 1280x1024, I have to scroll to see them. Do you have access to an image-processing program that will let you reduce to 3/4 or 2/3 size? Irfanview is free (and Canadian ).

 

[ChuckDizzle]

Yeah, I realized I'm running an incredibly old version of the game. I downloaded 3.19 and that worked. As for discussion, I wasn't going to play until late tonight. Just wanted to take a gander at the save to see what's up. If the discussion is till going on then, I may wait to play until late tomorrow night (have some social events planned).

 

[vranasm]

well i would actually secure the northern location with 2 food resource and elephants sooner then later. So that's why i placed there sign "city 2" and our production city as "city 3" (there really should be flood plains farmed - each farmed FP = 1 mined plains hills, there are 3 in BFC so it will be 3 hills with 4 hammers). There is no need for rush, we have plenty of room and should properly plan expanding and i think there is big danger that our nicely neighbors would go with their city 2 for food + phants.

With city 4 it's a question i would propose to get gold - good commerce + happy. Those flood plains could really wait, there is no near food resource, would have limited growth and those nice resources are calendar.

East side has good food, but low hammers, but when we have good production city that should after HE make each turn 1 unit and that could really help with our warmongering.

 

[Norvin_Green]

Here's an alternative settling suggestion

Spoiler :

and why I'd settle that way. There is a lot of room to expand to so keeping our finances in good shape will be important early on. Settle the river-FP city next and we can cottage 7 FP's which being financial will net 3 each. It also helps to bring us closer to the fish/corn/ivory city which is too far to settle for our second city.
The sheep/corn city can the be for production. It could also be settled 1S but will take longer to get going because there will be no resource in its BFC. Of course, doing that picks up the horses.

I'd build 4 warriors. Place the 3 where shown on the map below and it will prevent barbs from being created in those regions. The 4th I'd sentry in Nidaros for MP.

We might also want to consider the GLH as most of our cities will be coastal.

Spoiler :

 

[dalamb]

Here's my take at city locations -- mostly the same as other people's but with some differences that mightbe important.

In the south:

• I think Red is the highest priority -- second city, first settler. We need production to start churning out warriors for fogbusting.
• We might want to consider light green for the horses as 3rd city (2nd settler), but some more northerly cities might be higher priority.
• The other easterly cities can wait -- they're reasonably safe until Isabella decides to sail a settler over there. If she settles seaside south of Madrid she'll steal the clams from the white city; I'm not sure how likely that is.
• Light blue (2W of the gold) is my previous suggestion for another commerce city. It'll have serious health problems given the lack of forests: 4 and 3 at size 1. 1W would get another +1 from having 2 forests in the BFC, but loses the gold and crowds the "low hammer" location someone proposed. In either case it'd have to be a post-math city, and get an aqueduct ASAP. Edit: I notice Norvin proposed the 1W location -- but I don't think it should be settled so soon, given the health issue.

In the north, the light orange riverside city is a good location for grabbing the ivory, which to me is a more important function than partial blocking, but blocking is a bonus. It should perhaps be 2nd settled, after a production city. Dark Grey to the west might eventually be a good commerce city with all that cottageable grassland; it has very low production (plains hill, some forest) but commerce cities only need to build a few specific buildings. Chain irrigation would irrigate the corn. The two cities together are a good block.

I was told a strategy for dealing with far-away blocking cities when I started playing Nobles Club 7 (Sitting Bull) a few weeks ago; you send settlers and protectors there and wait until either (a) your economy is robust enough for the maintenance cost or (b) you see AI settlers approaching. You have to rely on borders expanding fast enough to prevent them getting past you; I had prioritized Stonehenge in that game because of totem poles.

 

[vranasm]

I am a bit afraid that those elephants would be like magnets for Izzy and we can lose them. If we road to the city first then settle there we get trade route that should help with maintenance. I dont know how much we want to whip cap or chop preMath, but if we dont do extensively then between our 2nd and 3rd settler they will come with their 2nd settler and place them "somewhere". And to the north there is a lot of resources open.

Anyway I just took Nictel's proposition and I liked it and made dotmap ingame so it's better visible what he had on mind.

 

[dalamb]

Sailing would also give us that trade route, though that doesn't preclude also building roads (all the better to move some chariots up there quickly if needed!).

 

[vranasm]

it's 8 tiles to the place between cow and corn in the north, 3 turns per road (if i remember correctly) that would mean in 24 turns we would have connection to the future city in north...? Seems reasonable to me. If we go more aggressively to get both ivory and fish closer to Izzy it's like 4 tiles? more...12 turns...

 

[Norvin_Green]

I'd be shocked if Izzy heads in the direction of the ivory when she has a 2 fish/horse site right next to her capital. We don't really need to block Izzy either. Nor do we need a production city as our second city. There is a lot of land to claim and we can only do so with a healthy economy. We certainly don't need a second worker yet either. When the pasture is finished he can camp the fur, quarry the stone (assuming masonry next) road the stone to connect to the capital. The capital meanwhile should grow to its pop max, working the crab, pig, fur, stone and maybe another fur. There wasn't really a need to switch to slavery yet either. With all the commerce Nidaros can generate whipping is counterproductive. I wouldn't worry about health in a FP's city either as I count 7 health resources visible plus if it's coastal there will be even more with a harbor. Also settling the FP's city gets us headed toward the ivory city.

 

[ChuckDizzle]

The switch to slavery was started on turn 40, so we're in anarchy already. Might as well allow it to complete and then we won't need to do it later. If we settle FP city (I'm assuming Mr. Green means light blue) we should make pottery a priority, and get those FPs cottaged up. Along with sailing and a harbor, this city could be a gold mine. This has the benefit of giving us more gold for expansion. If Izzy grabs that Ivory before we can, there's always the possibility of settling green and red and slamming that city with some chariots, taking it for ourselves. After all, we are warmongers this time around.
I'm fine with settling any of the three cities first. I'm probably leaning more toward red dot city, since I think that hedges our bets a lot, and gives us a military city. If Izzy expands too rapidly, plunk the green city down and come at her with chariots.

 

[Nictel]

Switching to slavery is kind of an automatic thing for me. The revolt event is something of a risk but having the option can be a real life saver sometimes.

 

[Norvin_Green]

I understand about switching to slavery. I was just pointing out that right now we don't need it and it does two things (1) gives us more turns for a revolt to occur and (2) makes it tough to see what our city is doing.
Hey, I'm all for the ivory city but the odds of Izzy getting it before us is really low especially if we settle city #2 in the FP area to keep our economy moving along. We don't need a production city yet.

 

[vranasm]

Too bad we dont know where are those other AIs (ottoman, german). The place in north has 2x food, ivory. I see it as a very good city.

Just wanted to ask if we are playing prince game really? I thought from your postings Norvin in other threads that you are way above that level. The same about dalamb. Because I am prince player and I could understand why we have so different opinions on things .

 

[ChuckDizzle]

Y3K (BC, that is)

Following the reign of Nictel I, Chuck the Dizzle ascended to the seat of power of the Viking people. His violent ascent to the throne is marked by a period of anarchy and unrest in the Viking city of Nidaros. Prior to his rise to the throne, Chuck was best known for inventing the the action of quaffing, which in these times is how all proper Vikings consume their meade.

Turn 41

The period of anarchy abates and Chuck orders his scouts to keep exploring. His southern scouting forces locate the German homeland, the location of which was filed away in collective memory for future raiding. The northern scouting forces met with tragedy when hungry lions attacked their camp. Our workers complete the pig sty and move to hunt beavers for their fur.

Spoiler :

Turn 42

The Vikings recruit their first true military unit which, though ill equipped, moves to station itself against barbarian raiding parties.

Turn 45

Viking scouts defend themselves against some ravenous panthers. King Chuck has ordered up another scouting unit to replace the lion fodder.

Turn 47

Famished lions attack the band of Viking warriors, who easily fend them off.

Turn 48

Chuck the Dizzle is furious. Yet another scouting party has succumbed to voracious wildlife. Chuck the Dizzle declares war on nature.

Turn 49

The Vikings dispatch another scouting unit to explore the north, hoping to avoid vicious wildlife.

Turn 50

Ingenious Viking inventors develop a mysterious round object called "Wheel". Apparently it makes things easier to haul.

Turn 51

Vikings are the third most powerful civilization in the world. Chuck the Dizzle is incosolable.

Spoiler :

Turn 56

A second Viking warrior moves to suppress barbarian uprisings. The new Viking scouting party defeats insatiable lions that attack their bivouac.

Turn 57

Viking inventors present a type of container (great for holding meade) called pottery. Chuck the Dizzle immediately orders a large barn built to store the local influx of pottery.

Turn 60

The fledgling Viking military deploys its third warrior, which moves again to quell barbaric activity.

Turn 62

Viking builders learn how to stack bricks on top of each other (or "masonry")

Turn 65

A sad day for the Viking nation. Not only does Brett Farve throw an interception, but Chuck the Dizzle is found drowned in a barrell of meade. What the future holds, nobody knows.

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

 

[Nictel]

I'll look in detail later. Just noticed that I forgot to change the player name
Also very unlucky scouts. We should cut down every forest we see!

 

[dalamb]

The same about dalamb. Because I am prince player and I could understand why we have so different opinions on things .

I have been playing at Noble for a couple of years and just started my first Prince games within the last couple of weeks. As to differences of opinion -- I'd have thought that was just par for the course!

Edit: The first image didn't display in Firefox for me. It said
[IMG]http://s922.photobucket.com/albums/ad62/leptonics/?action=view&current=Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg[/IMG]
instead of
[IMG]http://s922.photobucket.com/albums/ad62/leptonics/Civ4ScreenShot0002.jpg[/IMG]
Did anyone else have a problem with it or is it something peculiar about my browser?

 

[Norvin_Green]

@ vranasm, I usually play emperor though my win % is low (20-25). If that's a problem I will withdraw.

 

[vranasm]

@ vranasm, I usually play emperor though my win % is low (20-25). If that's a problem I will withdraw.

Tough to say how should I respond... it's nice playing along some good players, on the other hand it could be sometimes depressing.