ls612's C2C Units

Does anyone know what this is?? or where??

Code: 
		<UnitArtInfo>
			<Type>ART_DEF_UNIT_COG_ALT</Type>
			<Button>Art/Interface/Buttons/Units/Cog.dds</Button>
			<fScale>0.19</fScale>
			<fInterfaceScale>0.6</fInterfaceScale>
			<bActAsLand>0</bActAsLand>
			<bActAsAir>0</bActAsAir>
			<NIF>Art/Units/Alt_Default/EE2_Cogge/EE2_Cogge.nif</NIF>
			<KFM>Art/Units/Alt_Default/EE2_Cogge/EE2_Cogge.kfm</KFM>
			

<SHADERNIF>Art/Units/Alt_Default/EE2_Cogge/EE2_Cogge_FX.nif</SHADERNIF>
			<ShadowDef>

It is coming up as missing??
 
Hydromancerx said:
The only Cog I know of was the Cog Merchant in Orions's Merchants and Pirates mod. And the Art of EE2_Cogge I have seen in the Empire Earth 2 Sailing Ship unit graphics. EE2 = Empire Earth 2. So yeah if there is missing art you could always grab it from that download again.
Click to expand...

Well its the non art plus NON unit listed?? its just listed in the ArtDefines area is all?? Didnt know if you'll had this as a placeholder or what??
 
Hydromancerx said:
Aside from a few older programs such as 3DS Max6, Evolution, Outpost and all the old Sim games like Sim Earth, Sim Life, etc. I love those old games but even when using compatibility mode it was not working. Its funny since the newer the program the easier it was to re-install. It was once I got to programs that were older than 2000 that I ran into problems.
Click to expand...

So an update on the 3D editing front. I gave up on 3DS Max 6 and went back to my roots ... gmax. It was the first program I used to graphically mod games with, which was Neverwinter Nights. Note I did some coding for Dungeon Siege before that and one custom Objects for the Sims 1 (an Art Easel that looked like a corn stalk), but NWN was where I really learned how to mod/hak games.

For those who don't know GMax is a FREE 3D editing program made to mod content for games. Note its over a decade old but it will do what you need to do to mod Civ4 Meshes.

However it has not NIF plugin. So I finally tracked down one that worked. Yay! :goodjob:

Here are some links below for those interested in 3D modeling. Note that all are FREE!

Tools
- GMax
- NIF Plugin for G-Max
- NIFskope

On a side note I should also look up some old gmax plugins I used for NWN. Or even use Sim PE to convert Sims 2 stuff into 3DS and then Gmax to convert into NIF. BTW I did that once when taking a shell from the Sims 2 to make the Murex shell for the Murex resource we currently use. And of course all Zoo Tycoon 2 animals were already in NIF format, which is why we use it for much for the Subdued animals mod.
 
Hydromancerx said:
So an update on the 3D editing front. I gave up on 3DS Max 6 and went back to my roots ... gmax. It was the first program I used to graphically mod games with, which was Neverwinter Nights. Note I did some coding for Dungeon Siege before that and one custom Objects for the Sims 1 (an Art Easel that looked like a corn stalk), but NWN was where I really learned how to mod/hak games.

For those who don't know GMax is a FREE 3D editing program made to mod content for games. Note its over a decade old but it will do what you need to do to mod Civ4 Meshes.

However it has not NIF plugin. So I finally tracked down one that worked. Yay! :goodjob:

Here are some links below for those interested in 3D modeling. Note that all are FREE!

Tools
- GMax
- NIF Plugin for G-Max
- NIFskope

On a side note I should also look up some old gmax plugins I used for NWN. Or even use Sim PE to convert Sims 2 stuff into 3DS and then Gmax to convert into NIF. BTW I did that once when taking a shell from the Sims 2 to make the Murex shell for the Murex resource we currently use. And of course all Zoo Tycoon 2 animals were already in NIF format, which is why we use it for much for the Subdued animals mod.
Click to expand...

Have you checked out the KFM tools on the site to see if they work well with gmax? Otherwise the units you make, while pretty, have no animations and don't look too good in game.
 
ls612 said:
Have you checked out the KFM tools on the site to see if they work well with gmax? Otherwise the units you make, while pretty, have no animations and don't look too good in game.
Click to expand...

Not yet. However Gmax seems to have animation tools. Which I would suspect if they are making it to edit video games. The other limitation is I just have not figured out how to do animations for Civ4. In short I am at least back at the level of editing I was before with 3D Studio Max 6. I also find it ironic that the free program works while the one I spend all the money on for school (but at a student discount) doesn't work.

----

Also ls612 please do not forget to add the following units ...

- Inniskilling (Irish)
- Cloud Destroyer (Steampunk)

Thanks! :goodjob:
 
ls612 said:
Have you checked out the KFM tools on the site to see if they work well with gmax? Otherwise the units you make, while pretty, have no animations and don't look too good in game.
Click to expand...

The animation programs we rely on here can take any of the right file type. But the process of designing animation on any given unit is a task of the magnitude of climbing mount everest. You'd pretty much have to only be driven to do that and it'd likely take a month or more per unit. That said, once done right the animation settings can transfer to other units that share a similar form.

And I can agree that it would be really cool and certainly more 'professional' to have all the anims done correctly, but I'd prefer to have the units and an art to go with them than to not have the unit because we don't have the animation for available art.

What I'm surprised about here is that we haven't attracted a modder with the specific interest of developing animations. I suppose any animator would find the tools to do so for CivIV units to be a laborious throwback. There are far easier ways to animate in more advanced programs.
 
I believe the simple version of animating units is done by connecting the model to an existing skeleton. That is what was done with the giraffe and cow which is why they look so strange as neither move like a horse which was the skeleton used.
 
Thunderbrd said:
The animation programs we rely on here can take any of the right file type. But the process of designing animation on any given unit is a task of the magnitude of climbing mount everest. You'd pretty much have to only be driven to do that and it'd likely take a month or more per unit. That said, once done right the animation settings can transfer to other units that share a similar form.

And I can agree that it would be really cool and certainly more 'professional' to have all the anims done correctly, but I'd prefer to have the units and an art to go with them than to not have the unit because we don't have the animation for available art.

What I'm surprised about here is that we haven't attracted a modder with the specific interest of developing animations. I suppose any animator would find the tools to do so for CivIV units to be a laborious throwback. There are far easier ways to animate in more advanced programs.
Click to expand...

You need whatever tool you use to have an export to KFM script (or do some crazy stuff with transfers between programs).

@DH: That is a good start, and would work for many units we want.
 
So I was thinking about some unit upgrade pathing and here are some of the ideas. I will let the picture do the talking.

attachment.php
 

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  • someupgrades.jpg
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Wouldn't heavy skirmisher instead upgrade to an arsonist or does the skirmisher break off into heavy skirmisher and arsonist?

A modern machine gun unit would be cool, as would a future unit (Laser or Ion Cannoneer perhaps.)

Obsidian swordsman sounds right.
 
Maybe heavy laser gun --) heavy rail gun

Also I would loved to see heavy exoskeleton infantry. Something like exoskeleton infantry but with much bigger guns/cannons

Exoskeleton infantry - mobility and speed
Heavy exoskeleton infantry - as much armor and guns as possible.

Iam not sure about obsidian swordsman. Obsidian swords ever existed?
 
I'd also like to see some 'heat ray' weapons like we now have developed and put to use in our military for riot control but are also extremely useful in battle as well.
 
Nimek said:
Iam not sure about obsidian swordsman. Obsidian swords ever existed?
Click to expand...

The macuahuitl ([ma&#720;'k&#695;awit&#865;&#620;] (singular) is a weapon shaped like a wooden sword whose name is derived from the Nahuatl language. Its sides are embedded with prismatic blades made from obsidian, a volcanic glass stone. It was similar to a large wooden club with cuts in the side to hold the sharpened obsidian.
 
Thunderbrd said:
Wouldn't heavy skirmisher instead upgrade to an arsonist or does the skirmisher break off into heavy skirmisher and arsonist?

A modern machine gun unit would be cool, as would a future unit (Laser or Ion Cannoneer perhaps.)

Obsidian swordsman sounds right.
Click to expand...

1. I changed it so the Javelin line did not upgrade into the Arsonist anymore. It did not make sense for a unit throwing spears to suddenly be throwing pots of flammable liquid. Especially since the Skrimisher comes AFTER the Arsonist. Right now it goes ...

Atlatlist -> Javalineer -> Skirmisher -> Musketman

Note that the Slinger and Stoen Spearman upgrade to the Atlatlist and the Atlatlist splits off to the Archer. Having a Heavy Skirmisher would allow it to still exist in the Medeval Era when the Longbowman, Heavy Axeman, Pikeman, Failman and other Medieval type of units exist.

2. I have been looking for a machine gun model and there are some that might fit. I also found a 2nd machine gun if we want to have one for WWI and WWII.

3. As of now the Spearman upgrades to the Light Swordsman. This dosn't mke much sense, however its a much more natural progression from a Stone Mace to Obsidian weapons where the Macuahuitl or "Obsidian Sword" is welded more like a Mace than a sword but still has slashing of a sword.

Note that the names are semantics and if we need to all "obsidian" units can be renamed to "Neolithic" or something. Basically the units are more based on the era you are in and the resources you have available. Thus a Light Swordsman would need metal wares to make, while an Obsidian Swordsman would not. Likewise it would get a production boost from Stone, Obsidian and Flint resources.

And if your wondering the Sword developed from the dagger. So perhaps we should have some sort of Dagger welding unit. Do rogues or recon/hunters wield them? Should they be linked somehow?

Nimek said:
Iam not sure about obsidian swordsman. Obsidian swords ever existed?
Click to expand...

Yes with the Macuahuitl. It is like a hybrid of a mace and a sword. It cuts like a sword but wields like a mace.

Nimek said:
Maybe heavy laser gun --) heavy rail gun
Click to expand...

Both are planned. Note we do already have the Plasma Thrower and there are plans for laser, disintegration, anti-matter, 4D and even time traveling units. Not all at once of course. In comparison a Rail Gun to a 4D Unit unit would be like a Stone Thrower to a Rifleman.

Nimek said:
Exoskeleton infantry - mobility and speed
Heavy exoskeleton infantry - as much armor and guns as possible.
Click to expand...

Right now we have ...

Modern Infantry -> Powered Exoskeleton Infantry -> Power Armored Infantry -> Anti-Personnel Mech -> Assault Mech

The Powered Exoskeleton Infantry is around today's technology with the Powered Exoskeletons that are being developed and in use.
 
1. I changed it so the Javelin line did not upgrade into the Arsonist anymore. It did not make sense for a unit throwing spears to suddenly be throwing pots of flammable liquid. Especially since the Skrimisher comes AFTER the Arsonist. Right now it goes ...

Atlatlist -> Javalineer -> Skirmisher -> Musketman

Note that the Slinger and Stoen Spearman upgrade to the Atlatlist and the Atlatlist splits off to the Archer. Having a Heavy Skirmisher would allow it to still exist in the Medeval Era when the Longbowman, Heavy Axeman, Pikeman, Failman and other Medieval type of units exist.
Click to expand...
Ok, I'm semi-happy with this arrangement but there's some things revealed in this.

First of all, it'd obviously be nice if a throwing line can maintain throwing throughout all upgrades. Second, there's a pretty severe gap in the Arsonist to Grenadier line as it is.

I don't think your upgrade path is a bad one. But it would be nice if the Arsonist, being the start of his own flame/explosive hurling line that leads into the Grenadier, could have some stages between such as:
Arsonist(Classical/Early Medieval)
->Alchemist(Late Medieval/Renaissance)
->Dynamiteer(Industrial/Western feel that matches the sheriff, outlaw, etc...)
->Grenadier(Now we've caught up to ourselves)
->Modern Grenadier
->Progresses this line beyond this point into a rocket launcher line.

Then we plug the thrown weapons line right into this in a split off from Skirmisher->Alchemist, and Heavy Skirmisher->Dynamiteer

How does this sound?

3. As of now the Spearman upgrades to the Light Swordsman. This dosn't mke much sense, however its a much more natural progression from a Stone Mace to Obsidian weapons where the Macuahuitl or "Obsidian Sword" is welded more like a Mace than a sword but still has slashing of a sword.

Note that the names are semantics and if we need to all "obsidian" units can be renamed to "Neolithic" or something. Basically the units are more based on the era you are in and the resources you have available. Thus a Light Swordsman would need metal wares to make, while an Obsidian Swordsman would not. Likewise it would get a production boost from Stone, Obsidian and Flint resources.

And if your wondering the Sword developed from the dagger. So perhaps we should have some sort of Dagger welding unit. Do rogues or recon/hunters wield them? Should they be linked somehow?
Click to expand...
Completely agree. I've mentioned before about that sort of naming and how beneficial it could be for us. I like the idea of the first 'swordsman' unit being a Knifeman or Daggerman. Rogues are assumed at the moment to be dagger throwers but a longer obsidian, flint, or stone dagger used for melee purposes sounds perfect for the first step of the sword line. We can probably structure that progression nicely in the equipment scheme.
 
@TB

If you want a better transition from Arsonist to Grenadier then the Alchemist sounds good. However we have also talked about the Petard and Sapper units too so like ...

Throwing Spears
Atlatlist -> Javalineer -> Skirmisher -> Heavy Skrimisher -> Musketman

Grenades
Arsonist -> Alchemist -> Grenadier -> Modern Grenadier

Arsonist -> Sapper -> Petard -> Demolitionist -> ?

I also was thinking about self destructing units. Like Suicide Bombers.
 
The second line of Destructionists sounds pretty good to me.

The difference between a Dynamitist and similar units along the Destructionist line would be that the Dynamitist throws individual sticks like early grenades and thus be more like an early grenadier while the (Petard?) would run up and plant bundles, light and run to destroy buildings primarily.

Those Destructionists would be really cool to work with when we can use bombard to optionally target buildings. They're special ability would really be limited to targeting buildings themselves but they'd be very good at doing just that, perhaps even better than siege units. They should all have a 'chance' of suicide and I think this would best be built out using the Outcome Missions so DH and AIAndy would be our experts in that realm. They could be capable of destroying outright specified buildings by type and thus doing so via a mechanism that is completely unlike the normal bombardment mechanism I'm planning. It'd be two checks, one for success or failure and one for self destruction or survival. I doubt the arsonist would have much of a chance of self destruction but sappers, petards etc... very high chance of self destruction. I think that some promos could improve their chances of survival too couldn't they?
 
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