Machine and Gattling Gunners

[plumsmugler]

I noticed that the machine and gattling gun units have the same melee as ranged damage and only have a range of 1. Is the idea behind these units that they are a front line defender and the single hex range is meant to punish anybody who dares attack them head on?

It seems like a unit who's sole purpose is to scare away melee units like infantry and tanks. Would also be perfect for locking down cities. (Much like how they were used in Civ IV)

I'm also curious if they're going to have a bonus versus infantry and a penalty against tanks.

 

[Yaezakura]

I think the main point behind them is so that archer units from the early game can be promoted without losing the effects of their promotions. However, being able to do what is effectively a melee attack without being damaged in return is pretty nice as well. You're going to hurt the other unit without taking damage, making it hard for the other unit to then attack you back if their combat strength is the same as their ranged strength.

Plus, you could always give them +range promotions...

 

[Atlas627]

On defense, if you don't kill them the first turn they can guaranteed kill you without dying on their turn. So you have to fully commit to break Machine Gun "nests".

On offense, they have to set up like a siege unit and have a range of 1. This means that if they get to attack, they do so without taking damage. But they can't move and attack in enemy territory. And if you protect them by placing other units in front of them, then the Machine Guns won't be able to attack! Just hold the line. So it will be difficult to advance machine gun lines unless the enemy has no army to speak of, in which case you'll win no matter your army composition.

 

[anandus]

Do they have bonus defense against artillery?

 

[NotSure]

I haven't really paid attention to how the gunners will work, but I'm thinking my first game might be with England rather than one of the new civs. Am I missing something or will upgraded longbows dominate the battlefield?

 

[Verified_Confection_Being]

I haven't really paid attention to how the gunners will work, but I'm thinking my first game might be with England rather than one of the new civs. Am I missing something or will upgraded longbows dominate the battlefield?

I think you might find the Chinese end up Cho-king-you

 

[Calouste]

Now that a Citadel also brings all the surrounding tiles under your control (i.e. the Great Artist culture bomb effect in vanilla), I expect to see quite a few Citadels along borders with Gatlings or Machine Guns in them. I assume that they get defensive bonusses, which Cannon and Artillery don't get.

 

[cakes]

i can't remember how it works with artillery but how will ungarrisoning and attacking work with machine gunners? does garrisoning use up a movement point?

 

[apocalypse105]

The question is if artillery unit is changed So you're machine gunners don't get outranged by 3 range artillery pieces makes them pretty much useless

 

[Peng Qi]

Most of you seem to be forgetting that we've already been told that it's going to take at least twice as many attacks to kill a unit now.

 

[snipperrabbit!!]

On defense, if you don't kill them the first turn they can guaranteed kill you without dying on their turn. So you have to fully commit to break Machine Gun "nests".

On offense, they have to set up like a siege unit and have a range of 1. This means that if they get to attack, they do so without taking damage. But they can't move and attack in enemy territory. And if you protect them by placing other units in front of them, then the Machine Guns won't be able to attack! Just hold the line. So it will be difficult to advance machine gun lines unless the enemy has no army to speak of, in which case you'll win no matter your army composition.

Where do you take that from ?
I would say it is just your own speculation actually !

 

[Haig]

The question is if artillery unit is changed So you're machine gunners don't get outranged by 3 range artillery pieces makes them pretty much useless

Artillery and siege units wont do as much damage to land units anymore in g&k, they will
be for sieges primely.

I guess best way to deal with MGs is air force and tanks.

And we dont know gatling and MG special bonuses yet..

 

[Montov]

The info about Gattlins are new for me. I would have assumed the gattlin would be a transitional unit from Crossbow to Machine Gun, but now it the change between Crossbow and Gattlin is big in the role they play on the battlefield.

 

[nokmirt]

I think the main point behind them is so that archer units from the early game can be promoted without losing the effects of their promotions.

Plus, you could always give them +range promotions...

I hope not it would seem funny and weird to a gatling or MG have a range of +2 or +3, firing over trees and what not. Hopefully, they have some new promotions that do not exist in the current game for these new units. Range should not go beyond +1. Gatling guns were easy targets for artillery and snipers due to their limited effective range.

When looking at a Vickers MG it had a effective range of around 2,200 yards.

While a 75mm cannon had an effective range of 9,350 yards for HE and 7,500 for shrapnel, it becomes apparent that th machine gun is simply not designed as a long range weapon. Even in the game it should be displayed as such, especially sense it fires in a straight line parallel to the ground, and not in an arc such as a longbow or artillery piece.

 

[Jaybe]

Is someone (as in everyone) forgetting that they're changing ranged combat mechanics?

What I am HOPING for is that ranged units inflict less damage as their target's hitpoints are reduced to make it difficult to destroy a unit using JUST ranged units. For instance: if target has lost 80% strength, ranged unit attacks on it is penalized 40%.

 

[Gough Whitlam]

I get the feeling that machine guns and gattling guns will be the essential city defenders in G&K. With improved ranged units and weaker siege units, it may be more effective to have a city garrisoned with a machine gun rather than a canon/artillery not withstanding the shorter range.

 

[Gucumatz]

Now that a Citadel also brings all the surrounding tiles under your control (i.e. the Great Artist culture bomb effect in vanilla), I expect to see quite a few Citadels along borders with Gatlings or Machine Guns in them. I assume that they get defensive bonusses, which Cannon and Artillery don't get.

Woah thats amazing. Can someone send me a link to this? I entirely missed this detail. And what about Great Artists? I am sure their culture bomb would have been changed to something else.

 

[Draskar]

Is someone (as in everyone) forgetting that they're changing ranged combat mechanics?

What I am HOPING for is that ranged units inflict less damage as their target's hitpoints are reduced to make it difficult to destroy a unit using JUST ranged units. For instance: if target has lost 80% strength, ranged unit attacks on it is penalized 40%.

Totally Agree

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Well, I just remembered.

Archer no longer has a penalty against cities
And Siege units (Catapult I believe is from where we know this) has a 200% bonus against cities.

Just to throw it out there. I think Siege's units are going to be rather weak against normal units, but powerful against cities.

 

[shaglio]

On offense, they have to set up like a siege unit and have a range of 1. This means that if they get to attack, they do so without taking damage. But they can't move and attack in enemy territory. And if you protect them by placing other units in front of them, then the Machine Guns won't be able to attack! Just hold the line. So it will be difficult to advance machine gun lines unless the enemy has no army to speak of, in which case you'll win no matter your army composition.

Where do you take that from ?
I would say it is just your own speculation actually !

I too would like to know if this is true. This is the first time I've heard they have to set up.