Indeed, I think AI needs to be "house trained" in using carrier groups and ranged naval units. Like, it shouldn't treat all of them as melee units - I've had AIs ruin their fog-of-war advantages by plunging all their battleships straight into my gunline when they could have sit back and focused fire on my line instead. Leaving carriers unprotected by charging them right in front of their escorts is another one.
MadDjinn - Deity Carthage Large Islands
- Thread starter MadDjinn
- Start date
Indeed, I think AI needs to be "house trained" in using carrier groups and ranged naval units. Like, it shouldn't treat all of them as melee units - I've had AIs ruin their fog-of-war advantages by plunging all their battleships straight into my gunline when they could have sit back and focused fire on my line instead. Leaving carriers unprotected by charging them right in front of their escorts is another one.
I want to add: he has to have an AI team mate. Preferably Germany for that historical-ness.
Rules are the AI team mate has to be in the game before a Domination victory is achieved. Thus if for some reason to AI inadequacy the team mate gets conquered by a runaway or two, MD has to go and liberate the team mate and make sure it holds before he can continue his march towards whoever.
Also switch on Time because the AIs will be much more prone to interact with CS than with just Domination-only.
MadDjinn
Deity
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- Jan 28, 2011
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- 4,554
the only problem with that is it takes options away from the other AIs. So they might make some bad choices.
Plus... I can abuse the teammate by constantly handing them cities I don't want or crank out high volumes of useful units and have them do everything.
Plus... I can abuse the teammate by constantly handing them cities I don't want or crank out high volumes of useful units and have them do everything.
veteranspy
Chieftain
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- Jun 20, 2012
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- 27
that has to be one of the worst possible setups for a let's play
no early action because of being spawned on islands
completely worthless AI, unable to even slow down naval attack despite gold/production/tech advantage
it is just turkey shooting the whole time. not at any point was he threatened, there was no significant difficult decision made.
just settle a buncha lux, get privateers and frigs then completely own the AI.
no early action because of being spawned on islands
completely worthless AI, unable to even slow down naval attack despite gold/production/tech advantage
it is just turkey shooting the whole time. not at any point was he threatened, there was no significant difficult decision made.
just settle a buncha lux, get privateers and frigs then completely own the AI.
booyachris
Chieftain
In your game, I noticed the great barrier reef tile had fish on it. Surely this was a glitch, right? I have not seen this before, but of all the wonders, this seems pretty actual and normal.. Great video, I really enjoy the insight!
MadDjinn
Deity
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likely the fish was a glitch, or just an additional animation point.
They add this privateer that can capture everything under the sun including BBs and CVs.
I cannot believe the devs allowed this ability into the late game. Keep the privateer through the Age of Sail, after that, make it obsolete as soon as steam power is researched. Perhaps they should change the privateer to have only a chance of some sort, to capture a ship. Certainly, do not let this prize ship promotion upgrade to more modern vessels. Also, a privateer that tries to capture a modern ship should fail miserably. This way the human player gets rid of them, because at that point they would be of no use. The AI has trouble even using its own privateers, let alone trying to counter a human with such an advantage. BBs are also way too powerful for bombarding cities. MadDjinn is right they should be turned back a notch or two. The game needs to be made more challenging.Watching these LP vids has shows how lacking the naval AI really is. Apalling to see this on Diety, especially when the devs assured us the naval AI is devastating and this and that. On top of that, many people are saying the AI fighting prowess is tough on harder levels. If they think that they need to watch this set of videos. They would be in for a complete shocker.
Anyway, this is how I see it.
MadDjinn, you play an excellent game, none of this is your fault. Your simply doing what is available for you to do. No one can fault that. I certainly don't. However, I expect some changes to be made, but who knows what the devs will do.
tithin
Merely Marauding.
They add this privateer that can capture everything under the sun including BBs and CVs.
Watching these LP vids has shows how lacking the naval AI really is. Apalling to see this on Diety, especially when the devs assured us the naval AI is devastating and this and that. On top of that, many people are saying the AI fighting prowess is tough on harder levels. If they think that they need to watch this set of videos. They would be in for a complete shocker.
Anyway, this is how I see it.
MadDjinn, you play an excellent game, none of this is your fault. Your simply doing what is available for you to do. No one can fault that. I certainly don't. However, I expect some changes to be made, but who knows what the devs will do.
Bear in mind that up until he conquered Elizabeth - who had already been beaten on by Byzantium a fair bit - Mad was far behind in score and tech, and he only really started to snow ball after that. It's difficult for the AI to hold up against a large highly promoted naval army and they did put up a decent fight, but there just comes a point on land or sea where there's just too many promotions on those units for them to realistically die. I mean hell, probably the hardest sea fighting he did was against Korea where he even admitted when he was blindsided by five tugboats "didn't see that coming".
The Combat AI has improved - but so has Mad. The only difficulty he plays at is Deity. Any non deity player is likely to struggle quite hard against the changes to sea combat and I know I've had some difficulty adjusting.
Perhaps, he probably just makes it look easier than it is. Still, did you see that fleet the Polynesians had? And I mean had for like three turns. What a conglomeration of unorganized crap that was. Their choice of meatshield was a CV for crying out loud.
If the AI is better now than it used to be my friend, it really does need work. Like I said. tithin
Merely Marauding.
Perhaps, he probably just makes it look easier than it is. Still, did you see that fleet the Polynesians had? And I mean had for like three turns. What a conglomeration of unorganized crap that was. Their choice of meatshield was a CV for crying out loud.
No arguments there, Polynesia got absolutely wrecked and there's no real excuse for it - and yes no arguments here that it needs work either, my argument though is that for the average user, it's far far better than it used to be. Used to be I could fight on immortal or emperor with a degree of difficulty, now I'm struggling on king + . But then, I've only played two games since the xpac dropped!
It's not as bad as Vanilla where you had the AI repeatedly bash helicopters against a city and not take it because it didn't bring in proper melee units, but this baby could still use some tweaking yeah
Aforementioned treating certain ranged naval units like melees, not bringing in "waves" for its invasions, lack of aggressive wolfpack tactics (though this seems to be for below Immortal) etc.
All this could be tinkered with to optimal conditions, and thus present us the players a better and fun (hopefully) challenge.
Aforementioned treating certain ranged naval units like melees, not bringing in "waves" for its invasions, lack of aggressive wolfpack tactics (though this seems to be for below Immortal) etc.
All this could be tinkered with to optimal conditions, and thus present us the players a better and fun (hopefully) challenge.
I am playing my third game. The AI is improved, my first major war was against Austria. I DoWed her, because she refused after I told her not to settle near me. From the outset she took two cities. Getting those back was an ordeal. Then I finally solidified my position, after getting my cities back, and went on the offensive. Turn after turn I tried in vain to take her capital. Vienna was set behind a river, and they kept bring up just enough units to hold the line. It was a very fun war to say the least.
Later in the game, I took on this huge Mayan army in the Modern era. A giant sea battle too. This guy had all modern ships, no rickety half wooden navy like the Polynesians had.
Anyway, the battle for the other continent was amazing. The AI used it's air force vey well. So, well that I had to bring over more and more air support. This guy was really giving it to my ground units. I was behind in tech a bit too. We both had infantry and marines, but he had rocket artillery and SAMs. I had gatling guns, some MGs, artillery. The thing that helped was my ally the Huns had more advanced weapons. That helped me keep my troops from being destroyed utterly, until I begin to match him in tech. To make a long story short I took his capital, after fighting over a bunch of other cities.
So, I agee that although the AI can improve, the devs have made it better. That game was also on level 5.
The Pilgrim
Deity
I'm not a deity player. Currently having my first deity game in G&K. Some sort of fractal/small continents/ snaky continents/ don't know what the hell this map is. Anyways, Songhai launched a naval attack against me. 2 frigates, 2 privateers, 3 manducavs and a rifle landed.
All dead in less than 5 turns, took me a while to bring logistics/range frigates back. Once you have these promotions, AI at any level can do nothing. Like I said, I'm not a deity player, and I put my money on me. On the positive, Hiawatha is 20% higher than me in tech and finished Apollo in 209. 
BTW, MadDjinn, have you noticed the green carpet under two tiles island city is gone? Too bad, it was neat.
MadDjinn
Deity
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- Jan 28, 2011
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- 4,554
BTW, MadDjinn, have you noticed the green carpet under two tiles island city is gone? Too bad, it was neat.
yeah, that was the weirdest 'normal' graphical bug I've seen. It looks like it's meant to be that way.
I also agree with the Frigates + Range = silliness. It's been that way since vanilla, so hopefully something can be done about it.
But I hope that no one takes this particular series as a 'this is what the AI is like'. It's not this easy (post-Korea) normally (definitely not on land anyways).
I've played that 'king of the hill' style - getting DoW'd by 3 AIs with them taking turns attempting to take my capital - in early game G&K and barely lived through it (Citadels are really nice to steal land from your neighbour without expanding - especially after they improved the land).
I've watched AIs pull off brilliant attacks (but then they die to my combat-fu), but at least they're doing it. I'm actually not sure why Polynesia was gun shy in that game. They did the same thing to England earlier (sent lots of boats, but didn't bother attacking when they got there) - which at least shows some 'rethinking' on the AIs part (do I really need that city when the player has X battleships to my few?)
But yes, the AI needs some help still. move and shoot + spend all gold during a war will really change things.
plus. uhm, I've had many months to adapt
The Pilgrim
Deity
Looked like there was a farm under city itself.
The most brilliant thing I've seen so far was AI madly planting 4 citadels towards my city and choking it completely. That was cool. Too bad the same AI was preparing to attack me (troops were moving, spies were chatting) and ended up dancing around small inland sea throwing units in and pulling them out for 150 turns.
The DoW finally happened 10 or so turns before the game was over. So yeah, I see this a lot. AI is about to attack and then all of a sudden gets stuck for some unexplainable reason. Most of the time it's wrong decision. Move and shoot will do magic to tactical AI, unfortunately I'm not very optimistic about this coming anytime soon.
But don't you worry. Even with bad AI we all still love you!
I stand corrected. We all hate you.plus. uhm, I've had many months to adapt
Can you tell how many?
Having just tried this out again, I must say that if you really want to cheese out and hog the CSes all to yourself, switching off everything but Time and Domination is the way to go. Like seriously, I had Siam and Austria in the game, Siam even went for Patronage... and the only thing they did was bully city-states and inform me "rawr whacha gonna do about it rawr blargh". Thanks a lot for the free denouncements CS diplo boosts, guis!
They did like try to ally, eventually with many spies, but they were mainly the militaristic CSes. Absolutely cheese.
And yeah, team mate idea is bad. I was thinking more of having a time limit window to all your conquests when I typed it - instead of just overall game big picture "before turn 300+", you'd have to conquer or snatch so-and-so's lands or capital before your "team mate" sues for peace. But once you get the snowball rolling, its just... yeah, not that fun.
The Peacekeeper
Chieftain
I started watching these videos rather recently, and I think they have helped me quite a bit! I was having a hard time getting above Prince until I watched these. Now I feel comfortable on King and am starting my foray into Emperor. Anyways, I find it hilarious that Suleiman called your army on the weak side before you DoWed him. I think the AI needs to take into account how powerful your units are more than just the number.
I think the AI needs to take into account how powerful your units are more than just the number.
