Main Download Information

[viator]

viator, check my CFC profile, it's listed there.

Interesting to notice that the main difference between your and my specs is the fact that you use a 64-bit system ..... Would that be the solution?
(Also seen in the light of Civ5 coming, which will also be rather demanding, I guess, even more when the Modding starts).

 

[Afforess]

I doubt it. Civilization 4's diplomacy screen, popout videos, and menus have always been laggy. Play BTS unmodded and build a wonder to see for yourself. It's not a mod problem. Also, since the game uses 32bit architecture, the maximum ram it can use is ~3GB of ram. (On 32-bit computers, be sure to enable 3GB of Ram usage). So if you use too big of maps, it can cause memory allocation failures, which I have little control over.

 

[viator]

Well, I never had that problem with MODs (Planetfall, HTM, Quod Capita, HitM, RoM, AND etc) and/or bigger, huge maps, but that can be my luck.
As you say

Civilization 4's diplomacy screen, popout videos, and menus have always been laggy.

I can hardly imagine the RAM is the problem, since I can play all kind of programs/games which are much more demanding then CIV.
Civ4 just can't cope with it anymore, I guess.
So I wait for Civ5 and use even smaller maps in the mean while.

Update AUGUST28
In the RoM-thread I found sort of our discussion but with another outcome:

You give me hope that upgrading my system to 64bit will help to play RoM (and AND) again . Point for discussion: is it really a hardware problem or just a (software) CIV4-problem?

 

[FoulFoot]

I just experienced this exact problem. I've been playing a game for several days now, and today it decides it won't load (crashes to desktop, "Civilization has stopped working"). All the autosaves do the same thing. Your work around solved it -- loaded the initial-turn save, then tried to load the most recent save, and it worked.

There's been some really odd behavior with this latest patch. (I don't have any other mods installed).

Foul

I'm also having some funny problems.
Although I've added my own mod under modules that adds a civ, and gives some extra UUs, i haven't experienced anything like this before. I started a game in, i think patch E. Then i upgraded to F. No problems. I then skipped G, and got H when it came out. Now my game is broken, sort of. It crashes on 'initializing' when i try to load, BUT, if i load an old save from the same game, on about turn 100 or so (my game is at about turn 400+ now) it will load. Now it gets stranger: if i exit to menu after loading the old save, and then try to load my most recent save, it loads! But even after playing for a bit on that save, with patch H now installed, i still have to do the same process every time i play, or else it'll crash on 'initializing'.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I can hardly imagine the RAM is the problem, since I can play all kind of programs/games which are much more demanding then CIV.
Civ4 just can't cope with it anymore, I guess.

The main problem of course is that Civ IV is so old it was not written for multi processors and that includes large graphics ones so it does not use them efficiently.

 

[Mark064]

Ok I have some questions about the most recent version of Dawn.

1) Why does every civilization game have a -1 "Our close borders spark tensions" no matter where on the continent they are?

2) I started a new multiplayer game recently where we are playing with Barbarian Civs off but now we are having barbarian civilizations show up. Is there any way to make sure they doesn't happen?

Edit: Figured this one out it turns out instead of being clickable to turn barbarian civs on, they are clickable to turn it off. Since we were just quickly scanning and used to the old releases we left it unclicked.

3) Speaking of barbarian civilizations after Egypt showed up on my continent they have a -5 "Past events have drawn our people apart" right away despite no previous event. Why is that? Other barbarian civs on my friends continent do not have this.

 

[viator]

UPDATE AUGUST28
In the RoM-thread I found sort of our discussion but with another outcome:

Anyway, I found I have a lot less crashes since I got Windows 7 64 bit and 6 gigs of ram. It used to take me 2-3 min just to load the mod now it loads as fast as vanilla civ. AI turns can still get slow in the later game but I usually quit once I am winning anyway. And with tanks and aircraft winning is usually pretty easy.

and further

Well it is both, as far as I can see the Mod expands the memory needed to run civ to the point that before 64bit it was swapping out a lot to the HD which causes major slowdowns. I would assume the mod could be adjusted to not use as much RAM, but that would require removing functionality and features in all likelihood so that does not seem like a fix to me. Given that games expand as time goes by the 6gigs I have now might not be enough after a while, or there might also be CPU bottlenecks on some functions.

The rest you can read over there.

Just to let you know... and hopefully help you solve a few hardware problems that for some of us ruins the fun of this great beautifull MOD!

Before changing to 64 bit (in the future when I buy a new system), I 'd appreciate to read your thoughts and advice here and/or in the RoM-thread.

UPDATE 2 SEPTEMBER 02

Thinking about drjones' remarks in the ROM-thread:

Well it is both, as far as I can see the Mod expands the memory needed to run civ to the point that before 64bit it was swapping out a lot to the HD which causes major slowdowns. I would assume the mod could be adjusted to not use as much RAM, but that would require removing functionality and features in all likelihood so that does not seem like a fix to me. Given that games expand as time goes by the 6gigs I have now might not be enough after a while, or there might also be CPU bottlenecks on some functions.

Under Vista you can create a socalled "READYBOOST MEMORY" by changing (a portion) of fast memory in the property-window of that memory
In my case I used an usb-stick. It has to be FAST (at least USB2) or it will not work: the ReadyBoost-tab will not even appear in the window !
I connected a 4Gb USB2-stick, changed it to ReadyBoost and suddenly everything works fine !!!
It turns out that in Vista the ReadyvBoost can also be used in the way drjones describes above.

There is a small led in my usb-stick and I can clearly see the heavy activity as it needs this memory when I play CIV4-RoM-AND on High Grapics at 1680x1050. It even works great in a game fully developed after many turns!
By the way: same thing for other demanding graphics- or video-software

As I said: AND is very demanding...

Greetings,
Viator

 

[FoulFoot]

My 64-bit (Win 7) desktop with 4GB RAM has no issues running the mod. My 32-bit (XP) laptop with 2GB of RAM cannot run any maps larger than Standard without getting MAF crashes. I believe it has a lot more to do with the amount of RAM you have, not whether you have 64- or 32-bit. I wouldn't hesitate at all to upgrade to 64-bit at this point.

Foul

 

[ichemandrew]

Oh I know, but my persona is based more off the Movie Character than the book one. The book character isn't tall either.


Really? I tested it, and it didn't for me either.

I'm getting the saved game problem too. Attached is the "normal dump" after the crash and a saved game the causes it. Fresh install of Beyond the Sword. Fresh install of RoM 2.92. Fresh 1.74. Fresh patch H. Game played entirely in patch H.

 

[ichemandrew]

I'm also having some funny problems.
Although I've added my own mod under modules that adds a civ, and gives some extra UUs, i haven't experienced anything like this before. I started a game in, i think patch E. Then i upgraded to F. No problems. I then skipped G, and got H when it came out. Now my game is broken, sort of. It crashes on 'initializing' when i try to load, BUT, if i load an old save from the same game, on about turn 100 or so (my game is at about turn 400+ now) it will load. Now it gets stranger: if i exit to menu after loading the old save, and then try to load my most recent save, it loads! But even after playing for a bit on that save, with patch H now installed, i still have to do the same process every time i play, or else it'll crash on 'initializing'.

Thanks!
This worked great!

 

[Iceciro]

Admittedly, when I moved from a 4gb system using the 3gb switch to a 8gb 64-bit system my RoM (and civving in general) massively improved.
I know it's not that it can use more ram - but Windows in general can, so all of the background processes, firewall, windows stuff, firefox... is using the overflow memory and Civ can have an entire 3gb ALL TO ITSELF.

It's not so much that it allows civ to use more ram in total, but that 3gb of ram isn't being used by anything else - there's no competition for ram on my system, haha!

 

[brettonknight]

Are any civ packs compatible with AND/RoM 1.74/2.92?

 

[os79]

Are any civ packs compatible with AND/RoM 1.74/2.92?

Strategyguy made Clash of Civilizations compatible with AND 1.74.

Generalstaff said he is working on final megacivpack for 1.75. It will come much later when he have time.

 

[viator]

UPDATE AUGUST28

In the RoM-thread I found sort of our discussion but with another outcome:

Anyway, I found I have a lot less crashes since I got Windows 7 64 bit and 6 gigs of ram. It used to take me 2-3 min just to load the mod now it loads as fast as vanilla civ. AI turns can still get slow in the later game but I usually quit once I am winning anyway. And with tanks and aircraft winning is usually pretty easy.

and further

Well it is both, as far as I can see the Mod expands the memory needed to run civ to the point that before 64bit it was swapping out a lot to the HD which causes major slowdowns. I would assume the mod could be adjusted to not use as much RAM, but that would require removing functionality and features in all likelihood so that does not seem like a fix to me. Given that games expand as time goes by the 6gigs I have now might not be enough after a while, or there might also be CPU bottlenecks on some functions.

The rest you can read over there.

Just to let you know... and hopefully help you solve a few hardware problems that for some of us ruins the fun of this great beautifull MOD!

Before changing to 64 bit (in the future when I buy a new system), I 'd appreciate to read your thoughts and advice here and/or in the RoM-thread.

Greetings,
Viator

UPDATE 2 SEPTEMBER 02

Thinking about drjones' remarks in the ROM-thread:

Well it is both, as far as I can see the Mod expands the memory needed to run civ to the point that before 64bit it was swapping out a lot to the HD which causes major slowdowns. I would assume the mod could be adjusted to not use as much RAM, but that would require removing functionality and features in all likelihood so that does not seem like a fix to me. Given that games expand as time goes by the 6gigs I have now might not be enough after a while, or there might also be CPU bottlenecks on some functions.

Under Vista you can create a socalled "READYBOOST MEMORY" by changing (a portion) of fast memory in the property-window of that memory
In my case I used an usb-stick. It has to be FAST (at least USB2) or it will not work: the ReadyBoost-tab will not even appear in the window !
I connected a 4Gb USB2-stick, changed it to ReadyBoost and suddenly everything works fine !!!
It turns out that in Vista the ReadyvBoost can also be used in the way drjones describes above.

There is a small led in my usb-stick and I can clearly see the heavy activity as it needs this memory when I play CIV4-RoM-AND on High Grapics at 1680x1050. It even works great in a game fully developed after many turns!
By the way: same thing for other demanding graphics- or video-software

As I said: RoM and AND are very demanding...

 

[dudeSDCA]

Afforess -- Can you update the main download information to also include a link to the UI Screenshots thread I added to the forum?
Thanks!

 

[generalstaff]

Generalstaff said he is working on final megacivpack for 1.75. It will come much later when he have time.

Progress is good on it actually, I have completely finished with LHs for existing civilizations (baring new graphics releases, but I hate to sound like, "Oh Noes! More great leaderhead graphics!"). I am also about 60% done adding new Civilizations, granted the last half is going to take the longest since it requires adding completely new LHs (at least 2 per civ due to Revolutions). What makes that hard is researching obscure/ancient/very recent civilizations and countries, finding relevant leaders, trying to find unused LH graphics and compromising all of the above. I also have to create all new Paks due to BULL hover. I should also Pak my other things for the very final release. I will create a thread once I have finished 50 Civs (I have completely finished 40, and 1 more could be released up to standards).

Also, Afforess should not sweat any changes to the "building fixes" which come with AND. I plan to have this require AND (no components required, just for the code and speed boost), which will allow me to take care of upgrades and the like. He will have to update Military Civics since I am adding civs from Civ Gold that Zap did not include, as well as a separation of Ancient Egypt and Modern Egypt. I do not have a final list of civs yet.

 

[os79]

Progress is good on it actually, I have completely finished with LHs for existing civilizations (baring new graphics releases, but I hate to sound like, "Oh Noes! More great leaderhead graphics!"). I am also about 60% done adding new Civilizations, granted the last half is going to take the longest since it requires adding completely new LHs (at least 2 per civ due to Revolutions). What makes that hard is researching obscure/ancient/very recent civilizations and countries, finding relevant leaders, trying to find unused LH graphics and compromising all of the above. I also have to create all new Paks due to BULL hover. I should also Pak my other things for the very final release. I will create a thread once I have finished 50 Civs (I have completely finished 40, and 1 more could be released up to standards).

Also, Afforess should not sweat any changes to the "building fixes" which come with AND. I plan to have this require AND (no components required, just for the code and speed boost), which will allow me to take care of upgrades and the like. He will have to update Military Civics since I am adding civs from Civ Gold that Zap did not include, as well as a separation of Ancient Egypt and Modern Egypt. I do not have a final list of civs yet.

Military Civics is a required part of 1.75. Stuff formerly known as Better RoM plus BUC are both required. Consider 1.75 a complete modpack based on RoM as interpreted by Afforess mostly and his team of commenters here in this sub-forum .

By the way, I propose this:
Get 1.74 patched to I with final DLL changes for Dancing Hoskuld and other people of his same opinions and then let DH have control of subsequent development after 1.74(I?) into DH and his like-minded folk version. That way, they have CtD free version and all the cool speed optimizations.

Of course they miss on great changes in 1.75 but that is our opinion, not theirs . Then you can just concentrate on finalizing 1.75 for the rest of us loyal players .

 

[generalstaff]

Military Civics is a required part of 1.75. Stuff formerly known as Better RoM plus BUC are both required. Consider 1.75 a complete modpack based on RoM as interpreted by Afforess mostly and his team of commenters here in this sub-forum .

OK, adjusting for Better RoM and BUC is going to be the difficult part it looks like, mainly since the last time I had a chance to look at the BUC building upgrade screen, it looked rather confusing. I am also making sure that no leaders have "Communist" as their favorite civic, which I think is the major thing I have to sweat with Better RoM since no UBs are going to be the Bazaar, Butchery, or any other building which deals with resource based yields. I have to take a better look at it since I am sure there were many changes since the last time I took a good look at it.

Thankfully, an XML editor cleaned up the Military Civics file, which means I can easily make a compatibility patch. Since it looks like military civics I required, it will be an easy fix since I do not trust users to patch things manual; I have had too many people who had issues due to misunderstanding filepaths.

By the way, I propose this:
Get 1.74 patched to I with final DLL changes for Dancing Hoskuld and other people of his same opinions and then let DH have control of subsequent development after 1.74(I?) into DH and his like-minded folk version. That way, they have CtD free version and all the cool speed optimizations.

Of course they miss on great changes in 1.75 but that is our opinion, not theirs . Then you can just concentrate on finalizing 1.75 for the rest of us loyal players .

Well, since BUC and a few of the changes to Better RoM are controversial, and making them required to play with violates Afforess' philosophy of "I am not going to force people to play with things they do not want," maybe RoM segregation will be necessary. It is sure better than a showdown of Joseph II and Dancing Huskuld vs killtech and Afforess.

 

[Afforess]

Thankfully, an XML editor cleaned up the Military Civics file, which means I can easily make a compatibility patch. Since it looks like military civics I required, it will be an easy fix since I do not trust users to patch things manual; I have had too many people who had issues due to misunderstanding filepaths.

Actually, you don't need to fill in the "InitialCivics" part of the XML for civilizations at all, I disabled it from loading. The XML for that section is ignored by the dll anyway. I found that it was too much effort for modmodders to add new civic columns and fix the initial civics, so the game engine finds the initial civics and sets them dynamically (it looks for civics with no tech prereqs). This has been this was since AND 1.73.

Summary: you can completely ignore the initial civics part of the XML - the game never loads it.

Well, since BUC and a few of the changes to Better RoM are controversial, and making them required to play with violates Afforess' philosophy of "I am not going to force people to play with things they do not want," maybe RoM segregation will be necessary. It is sure better than a showdown of Joseph II and Dancing Huskuld vs killtech and Afforess.

I fixed the features that people disliked in BUC (unhappiness from Banks, negative hammers from Universities), and DH already said he didn't want to play 1.75, so there have been no complaints. However, I left BUC modular, so it's easy to remove, if you feel so inclined.

 

[generalstaff]

Actually, you don't need to fill in the "InitialCivics" part of the XML for civilizations at all, I disabled it from loading. The XML for that section is ignored by the dll anyway. I found that it was too much effort for modmodders to add new civic columns and fix the initial civics, so the game engine finds the initial civics and sets them dynamically (it looks for civics with no tech prereqs). This has been this was since AND 1.73.

Summary: you can completely ignore the initial civics part of the XML - the game never loads it.

Wow, that is very cool, and makes my job easier. You miss a few months of AND and you miss a lot.

I fixed the features that people disliked in BUC (unhappiness from Banks, negative hammers from Universities), and DH already said he didn't want to play 1.75, so there have been no complaints. However, I left BUC modular, so it's easy to remove, if you feel so inclined.

Glad to know the BUC is modular, it makes adding UBs easier since it means "incompatible with that option until patch." BUC changes buildings so much that it is hard to mod around when it comes to UBs, so I leave it to killtech. I have not been able to stay on top of this due to the civ pack. It does look like I will have to make a 1.74 version and a 1.75 version due to DH and Better RoM being non-optional, which is fine (as I said, most of the work is adding completely new LHs). Doing a 1.74 version first is a good dry run anyways, since it seems like the vast majority of people will be playing 1.75.