Make Dungeons really EXPLORable

[Yong]

I like the dungeons and the outcome events. However I'm not satisfied with the way they are "explored": there's not much flavor difference between "enter a tribe village" and "explore a dungeon", exception the different outcomes.

My suggestion to tweak the dungeon mechanism:
- Each dungeon has 2 hidden attribute: a strength range (from x to y) and HP (start at 100).
- When a unit explores the dungeon, a random strength value is generated (between x and y), then a hypothetical "combat" is fight between the unit and the
dungeon.
- If the unit lose the combat, the dungeon exploration fails. A dice roll will decide if the unit can survive. The dungeon will lose some HP depending on combat result. Some random bad result is generated, the "degree of badness" is correlated to the remaining HP of the dungeon: the lesser, the worse.
Example: a green scout did little damage to a dungeon in the early game, then punishment may just be some injury/disease; a mithril-armored champion almost destroyed the dungeon but failed, he may die from the exploration, and also trigger some mighty barbarian units.
- If the unit wins the combat, the dungeon is destroyed and some random good result is generated. There's still a possibility that the some minor bad thing happens at the same time, eg the unit is injured.
- Epic dungeons has higher strength range and therefore harder to conquer. The outcomes (both good and bad) are more significant.

In this way, dungeon exploration becomes a "progressive task" instead of "opening jackpot Type-C" (Type-A is goody hut while Type-B is graveyard). Hopefully this will give dungeon exploration some realistic feeling and give players more sense of achievement.

 

[it-ogo]

I also agree that dungeons lack something. And dungeons still can produce too strong enemies in early time (equivalent to instant defeat). Also I am not happy that dungeons provide too big enticement for exploiting save\load mechanism.

My variant of dungeon improvement is the following. Make several levels of dungeons: they all start as 1st level (but unique). Then each time dungeon is explored it
1) generates a random barbarian guardians according to the level
2) provides some random result (not generating barbs) also based on the level - mostly positive
3) levels up
4) have some chance of being destroyed (based on level - the more level, the more chance, on the highest level - 100%)
Level of the dungeon should be observable. On the first level maybe no barbarian guardians at all - so dungeons may completely replace goodie huts. No dungeon exploration within foreign cultural borders. And finally, barb-generating dungeons (barrows and ruins) can generate barbs based on their levels.

This would result in
- fun of dungeon exploration is prolonged all over the game.
- very few risk of overpowered barbs (just don't explore dungeons of too high levels).

PS variant:
level 1 - tribal village (=goodie hut)
level 2 - graveyard (that's what remains of the tribal village after exploration by the imperial military)
level 3 - barrow
level 4 - ruins
level 5 - dungeon
...

on the water tile
level 1 - shipwreck
level 2 - pirate cove
...

Also we can merge somehow dungeon mechanism with fort-citadel-castle mechanism. For example, you can explore castle on enemy territory during the war and it generates guardians belonging to your enemy, not to barbs.

 

[JDexter]

Great criticism and ideas!

 

[LostHope]

i like the second approach a lot...

having some kind of indicator how much trouble i'm getting myself into when exploring a dungeon would definitely be nice, because right now i only explore dungeons with cheap, expendable units to avoid save/load orgies...

that might also put an end to the extremely early spawning of religious units (due to a dungeon i managed to found order on turn 61 in my current game, not that i'm complaining, its just a bit weird)...

 

[Caradoc]

I like the idea of levels. Maybe a good addition would be to give the player some options in dealing with the monster: fight, bribe, or run.

As to save/load, I must admit I have given in to the temptation. If the risks were more measured, I think I could better resist.

 

[zup]

But would an immortal or a phalanx be able to handle anything a dungeon can spawn without lifting a finger? Ok, epic dungeons could require him to be uber promoted but that's not an issue with tier 4.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

multi-layered lairs and dungeons would be awesome indeed