Making a new Magic System Part I: Summons

[wapamingo]

Exciting! Please consider game speed setting for ritual casting

 

[Sephi]

OTOH - you could make mana-types available matter more if any of the following were true:

1) units always need the mana type present to get the next sphere promotion.
2) units always need the mana type present to get cast an spell of that sphere

The new system will not work exactly like this, but quite similar.

3) casters get a bonus to effect, duration, or whatever is appropriate based on the # of type-mana available.

Definetly. Fire mana for example might increase all direct damage spells.

4) casters get a "mana point" discount for casting based on # of type-mana available. (So lots of Body nodes is kinda like more Body mana points.)

Some mana types will decrease mana costs of their spellschool.

 

[tesb]

icons are done i made numerous icons so you can choose the ones you like the most i also created a separate alpha channel for each one since i don't know how the game implements the alpha channel in the font file.

all of those icons where made from age of wonders icons with small tweak here and there.

overview:

please comment

 

[Sephi]

@sephi an other good idea/tag for promotioninfos would be a tag that allows to deal damage when the promotion is removed:
Ice magic II: freeze/shatter mechanic
Erath III: Flesh to stone: applies a promotion that deals massive damage when removed, is removed by combat
...

A good idea. Right now I will focus on the Summons. When they are done we can see about adding new tags for the promotions/spells.

 

[tesb]

@sephi if you need more icons or you are not satisfied let me know.
i will now make the button art for the spellschools.
an other question do you want only new button art for the summon skeleton or a whole new unit *.nif? If you want a whole new unit please elaborate on the general feel / look purpose of the unit so i have a bit of orientation on what you want

 

[Sephi]

1) mana should be equally obtainable for the bannor as for the kuriotates(only 3cities, so few mana points if linked to buildings or mana sources).
So maybe "mana" should not be only linked to mana nodes, nor to buildings.

maybe : scientist /GS gives some mana points/turn, (so by building big cities and small land, you can still obtain some more mana)
maybe : mana nodes/source gives some
maybe : mage guild, library, alchemist lab...
maybe some wonders ?
maybe also 1pt/turn per adept or per mage/archmage ?

2) other balance points :
maybe mage should spend less points on lvl1 spell than adept + can use lvl2spells
and archmage spend less points on lvl 1 spell and lvl 2spell than mage + can use lvl 3spells ?

ex : if there are decimales of mana :
no chanelling (bambur, ratha, firebow...etc) = full cost ;
chanelling1/adept = 2/3 cost,
chan2/mage =1/2 cost (3/4of adept),
chan3/archmage-druid = 1/3 cost (1/2 of adept).

thus at least you have to have :
lvl 1 costs 1 for adept, it costs 1.5 for non chanelling unit, , 0,75 for chan2unit, and 0,5 for chan3unit.
then lvl2 spell costs 2 = 1 for chan2unit; 0,75 for chan3unit ;
and lvl3 spell costs 3 = 1point for chan3unit.

3)second question :
won't that way of doing magic be a disadvantage for say : amurites, luirchips ? those in particular have possibility of many fireball launching units. They have thus, possibly, many possibility of spending mana and they were balanced with that in mind ! but by changing the system they may not have much more mana income than other civs (add to that rathas...Etc)

+ for luirchips, fireball golem is very important to have them not totally outpowered by others civs (they are already nerfed compared to base FFH, but if you "nerf" their use of fireballs, they might be really underpowered).

my 0.2


did you thought about this point :
are mana points "stackable" from 1 turn to another if not used (as gold?)
or are mana points "possibilities", counting just for the turn, usable, but lost if not used in this turn ? (aka movement points, but for the whole civ)

mana is stackable, but it also has some decay, so you can't hoard mana 100 turns and then blast someone into oblivion.

1.) yes, kuriotates will need something special
2.) yes, this will be done
3.) some civs might get more mana than other civs. One advantage of the Amurites and Luchuirp will be that they will have much easier access to fireball than other civs. Some balancing for the arcane civs is most likely necessary.

 

[Pazyryk]

Another suggestion, although I suspect that I'm going to annoy a lot of people with this one:

I don't think terraforming in general should be a level 1 thing. It always seemed to me that making whole Sahara-sized deserts disappear should require more advanced magic. It really lessens the impact of a dessert when I know that (for one mana node) I'll be able to change it.

On the other hand, I do like the fact that "advanced terraforming" option makes more (different kinds of) changes possible, but again these should not be level 1. (This level of world-changing magic should be limited to the pros: Amerites, Sheaim or other civs that really focus on this kind of magic.)

 

[tesb]

spellschool buttons are ready:

 

[lemonjelly]

They're incredible!
You should make a pack of loads of buttons
You're really good

 

[DonQuigleone]

Another suggestion, although I suspect that I'm going to annoy a lot of people with this one:

I don't think terraforming in general should be a level 1 thing. It always seemed to me that making whole Sahara-sized deserts disappear should require more advanced magic. It really lessens the impact of a dessert when I know that (for one mana node) I'll be able to change it.

On the other hand, I do like the fact that "advanced terraforming" option makes more (different kinds of) changes possible, but again these should not be level 1. (This level of world-changing magic should be limited to the pros: Amerites, Sheaim or other civs that really focus on this kind of magic.)

Perhaps if you had to spend mana to terraform? Maybe you also have to spend maintenance to keep the terrain from "reverting".

 

[Neomega]

I am thinking of this

Global Enchantments: Applied to all units as long as the enchantment is in place. Costs decent mana cost to cast and has mana cost per turn

So I am guessing there may be a mana management screen, where you can build and turn on and off global enchantments? Summons would appear in your capital?

I kind of like the idea, but I also kind of like the idea of permanent buffs like poison weapon and enchanted blade, just because I do. Sounds dumb, but it feels better to me if a blade is magically imbued, part of its structure, than if it is being made enchanted by an overland spell. Also, I find it odd that a civs magical influence could spread into another civs. However spells like courage, loyalty or valor, to me seem like they would be more kept up by magic investment, meaning a fighter only has the courage to face a spectre as long as there is ethereal support. If that support fails, he again becomes merely human. Arcane/alteration magic is more transformative, so once changed it should not revert back, but light/dark magic is more ethereal and therefore needs constant "energy".

Of course, more than likely, this could lead to dark magic spells that block courage inside borders, kind of like level II dark warding spells beat level 1 light spells.

Although the mage guild upgrade thing makes sense, overall, I would prefer just going to a city and getting the poison blade or flaming arrows, but mage guild would be ok. I'd still rather weapon enchantments it did not cost mana per weapon or anythign like that, because again, if you run out, you get into that "gotta keep track of these three hunters, becaus ethey dont have poison blade, gotta remember to send them back when I got enough mana.,.. oh and those two axemen too... oh yeah, and I got three archers in the northwest tower that still need to get flaming arrows, in a few turns when I get enough mana.... wait, in this stack I still got an axeman with no enchanted blade, ok send him back... "

Enchantments as combat auras that can be toggled on/off. Has limited targets in Stack. Adept could enchant 2 blades, mage 4 and archmage 6, for examle.

Sounds kind of micro-managy.

 

[Neomega]

Perhaps if you had to spend mana to terraform? Maybe you also have to spend maintenance to keep the terrain from "reverting".

spend to terraform? Sure. Maintenance to revert? The MAF's are killing me already.

 

[Folket]

This looks really interesting, but I'm looking forward for the civ specific victory conditions as well.

Why not release one in 9.0 and then the other in 9.1?

 

[Neomega]

This looks really interesting, but I'm looking forward for the civ specific victory conditions as well.

Why not release one in 9.0 and then the other in 9.1?

a wholly new magic system would almost need to be named 10.0

 

[tesb]

@sephi:
you forgot the aurealis in the list of summons, i added him to the light spellschool, since you put sun under same category

 

[tesb]

This looks really interesting, but I'm looking forward for the civ specific victory conditions as well.

Why not release one in 9.0 and then the other in 9.1?

most of the dll work is done, i am working on beta right now and most of the missing stuff is just xml work, which i can do quickly

 

[tesb]

@sephi:
do you plan on adding a state religion prereq tag for the rituals or are summons like the balor available to all civilization no matter their religion. as of now i implement them like any other ritual.

edit: what about drowns and other religious units (treants, fawns, diseased corpes, ...)?

 

[tesb]

Angel
Combat Role: Support
Combat Aura: Tier2 Buff

Merkurian Angel or Guardian Angel from Dimensional Magic I? what spell are you referring to?

Edit: shall i include elemental horde or are we going to drop the spell instead?

Edit2: what about summon tree of life and summon vyrkul?

Edit3: the last summon that is not assigned afaik is the Pegasus, shall we keep it as a spell?

 

[tesb]

implemented:
air elemental
water elemental
mistform
spectre
wraith
kraken
djinn
host of the einherijar
pit beast
flesh golem
aurealis
ice elemental
earth elemental
balor
sand lion
holy avenger
fire elemental

however i did not touch the tech perquisites and the manacosts. ice elemental, aurealis, holy avenger, mistform have palcerholder pedia entry (nothing to be concerned about)

i also made small changes to the aristrakh promotion murderous frenzy and updated the aristrakh rituals with help texts

 

[Sephi]

@sephi:
do you plan on adding a state religion prereq tag for the rituals or are summons like the balor available to all civilization no matter their religion. as of now i implement them like any other ritual.

don't know yet

edit: what about drowns and other religious units (treants, fawns, diseased corpes, ...)?

some of them will have a faith/turn cost. Some will stay as they are. Not Rituals though.