Making a new Magic System Part I: Summons
- Thread starter Sephi
- Start date
ideas for summons combat auras:
x -Effect strength
y -units affected
z- range
Sand Lion:
desert hunter: +1 movement +x% strength and invisibility in deserts to y units;
Balor:
shadowflame: +x shadow damage per turn to y enemy units in z distance
Holy Avenger:
redemption: +x% heal to y units; +x holy damage against demons and undead to y units
Mistform:
mist cloak: hides y units; +x firststrikes to y units; also grants firststrike and defensivestrike immunity to y units
Host of the Einherjar:
Judgment: increases the strength of y units by x holy damage against civilizations with different alignment
Fire Elemental:
conflagration: deals x firedamage per turn to y enemy units in z range
Djinn:
magic affinity: +x elemental resistance to y units
...to be continued
if anyone has further ideas feel free to post them
x -Effect strength
y -units affected
z- range
Sand Lion:
desert hunter: +1 movement +x% strength and invisibility in deserts to y units;
Balor:
shadowflame: +x shadow damage per turn to y enemy units in z distance
Holy Avenger:
redemption: +x% heal to y units; +x holy damage against demons and undead to y units
Mistform:
mist cloak: hides y units; +x firststrikes to y units; also grants firststrike and defensivestrike immunity to y units
Host of the Einherjar:
Judgment: increases the strength of y units by x holy damage against civilizations with different alignment
Fire Elemental:
conflagration: deals x firedamage per turn to y enemy units in z range
Djinn:
magic affinity: +x elemental resistance to y units
...to be continued
if anyone has further ideas feel free to post them
from a purely graphical view, the second try is best. But IMO, from a symbolical point of view, bearing in mind the symbolic coding in cIV promotion, I'd rather have the first version. (the second one looks a bit more like a prison around the guy in the middle while the first one is more like a force-wave emating form the caster).i have redone the effect for combat aura:
(EDIT : take what I say with a grain of salt... i just noticed the first "try" seems to look a bit too much like METAMGIC III "Anti Magic Shell"... so maybe the second set of icones, while IMO less "speaking" would be different enough... or maybe change the color of the "combat aura strengh" to a more reddish colour ?)
maybe, for the "range" icone, you could do the second one, but instead of 3 icones where the target seems farther form previous icone, maybe make it 1) as it is, 2) with 1 star/plus sign and 3) with 2 stars/plus signes. The difference between the icons is obvious when they are aligned together, but I'm not sure it'll be so much obvious if the icons stack and you only see one.
For target number it is perfect.
If those promotions are implanted, should there really be different kind of promotions re'lated to summons and other promotions related to spells /damage spells ?
I mean : "spell extension" already exist and normally add movement to summons. Should we/you add a new promotion for "spell range" or just make it so the already existing "spell extension" adds movement to summons and range to spells ?
in the same way : why not have "spell force" being tied to the same promotion that gives "empower" to summons (well, only if empower do not disapear).
EDIT2 : well, sorry if my comment seems a bit hard, but it seems that most of the time, even while reading all there is on the public forums, I only have partial information so I make comments on partial data, finding some things wrong while maybe the issue was already acessed and maybe it is not even a bug, but "design"
i am not too happy with effect ones either, the range i like although it could use a bit of tweaking.
sephi wanted to add roman numbers to them similar to the magic spheres promotions i may add them if i can't distinguish them further.
they don't seem harsh at all, any input is welcome
i don't know the specifics either, but keep in mind that the spellsystem as a whole gets a revamp so you might loose some promotions and gain new ones.
as far as i know those promotions will tweak the comabt auras see my reply to your other post
nice one.
EDIT : on the "roman number" topic :
I'd rather have roman numbers limited to spellsphere + already used icones.
I really think, + or stars might be better.
Else we might misunderstand "combat aura III" with another spellsphere lvl III instead of it being a promotion applied horizontaly to all spellspheres.
I like it when the "symbolic coding" is coherent.
EDIT : on the "roman number" topic :
I'd rather have roman numbers limited to spellsphere + already used icones.
I really think, + or stars might be better.
Else we might misunderstand "combat aura III" with another spellsphere lvl III instead of it being a promotion applied horizontaly to all spellspheres.
I like it when the "symbolic coding" is coherent.
DonQuigleone
Warlord
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2010
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- 102
I agree, using a symbol like stars, numerals or something for varying levels of the same spell would be functional and best.
One thing that I think could be elaborated on is more benefits for holding different types of Magic, or combos.
For example with a lot of Death Magic perhaps you could modify your units with undead parts. Or perhaps combine many units together into a bone golem. Or maybe you'd need Death Mana and Body Mana to graft undead limbs onto a living body.
Stuff like that would be rather cool. Currently some spell effects have been merged together if you have the promotions, but I think more could be done in that direction. Furthermore some of these enchantments could be mana supported (something like an undead limb), while some could be applied to all your units as a whole, for instance enchanted blades. Enchantment Mana could particularly have a lot of combos with others. Fire enchanted blades vs. Water Enchanted blades etc. etc. Some could go better together then others, like Ice and Water -> Water creates large amounts of water -> Ice freezes it.
One thing that I think could be elaborated on is more benefits for holding different types of Magic, or combos.
For example with a lot of Death Magic perhaps you could modify your units with undead parts. Or perhaps combine many units together into a bone golem. Or maybe you'd need Death Mana and Body Mana to graft undead limbs onto a living body.
Stuff like that would be rather cool. Currently some spell effects have been merged together if you have the promotions, but I think more could be done in that direction. Furthermore some of these enchantments could be mana supported (something like an undead limb), while some could be applied to all your units as a whole, for instance enchanted blades. Enchantment Mana could particularly have a lot of combos with others. Fire enchanted blades vs. Water Enchanted blades etc. etc. Some could go better together then others, like Ice and Water -> Water creates large amounts of water -> Ice freezes it.
@sephi
i added the summon treant and summon tiger to the rituals
i also made you a new skeleton, the halberd version was a bit cheap:
just delete all files in art/units/summons/skeleton2 (but keep the folder) and put the files in the attachment in there.
also you need to change the kfm and nif reference in SPELLSPlus_CIV4ArtDefines_unit.xml:
i added the summon treant and summon tiger to the rituals
i also made you a new skeleton, the halberd version was a bit cheap:
Spoiler :
just delete all files in art/units/summons/skeleton2 (but keep the folder) and put the files in the attachment in there.
also you need to change the kfm and nif reference in SPELLSPlus_CIV4ArtDefines_unit.xml:
Spoiler :
DonQuigleone
Warlord
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- Feb 26, 2010
- Messages
- 102
Will the treant's randomly risig to defend ancient forests mechanic still work the same though? I think the unique nature of treants could mean that you could just leave them as is.
@Sephi i have an other two suggestion regarding the:
Spellschools:
Evil Civilizations: only have access to Elementalism and Dark Magic
Good Civilizations: only have access to Elementalism and Light Magic
Neutral Civilizations: only have access to Elementalism and their Elementalism spells are more powerful (this can easily be done by the obsolete spell tag and the alignment prequesite you gave me)
Omnipotence Victory:
For the Promotion Omnipotence you need either:
-full dark magic and elementalism (enables omnipotence spell for evil civilizations)
-full light magic and elementalism (enables omnipotence spell for good civilizations)
-full elementalism, also there should be some promotions added for neutral civilizations only, so they have to invest the same amount as good or evil civilizations (enables omnipotence spell for neutral civilizations)
Spellschools:
Evil Civilizations: only have access to Elementalism and Dark Magic
Good Civilizations: only have access to Elementalism and Light Magic
Neutral Civilizations: only have access to Elementalism and their Elementalism spells are more powerful (this can easily be done by the obsolete spell tag and the alignment prequesite you gave me)
Omnipotence Victory:
For the Promotion Omnipotence you need either:
-full dark magic and elementalism (enables omnipotence spell for evil civilizations)
-full light magic and elementalism (enables omnipotence spell for good civilizations)
-full elementalism, also there should be some promotions added for neutral civilizations only, so they have to invest the same amount as good or evil civilizations (enables omnipotence spell for neutral civilizations)
Tarquelne
Follower of Tytalus
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- Dec 8, 2001
- Messages
- 3,718
The Scions - to pick a civ completely at random - wouldn't fit well within those restrictions. I suspect that'd be true of others.
Maybe just restrict the Evil and Good civs, and force Neutrals to pick Dark or Light (plus Ele.) but not both? OTOH, it might be a better to follow the same guideline as Religions, where any civ can adopt any religion. Not great for the Lore, but it's a big boost to playing the game. (You could still have a civ chose only one of Dark and Light within a single game, though just restricting mana use or creation by alignment seems more natural.)
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
Isn't that over-complicating things, and over-restricting them? Unless it's tied to alignment (which it shouldn't be, just look at Tarq's post), then it becomes a 'lore-based restriction'... Which, for the most part, do not exist. If they did, Sheaim could not adopt Order, Elohim could not go AV, and so on.
Basically, keep it simple and leave it up to the player.
Basically, keep it simple and leave it up to the player.
you are right, it was just an idea carried over from mom or aow
i guess it just seems a bit wrong to see elohim with an army of skeletons and calabim adopting the empyrean, which also the best religions for them just because of vampire chalid and this seems so wrong
i guess it just seems a bit wrong to see elohim with an army of skeletons and calabim adopting the empyrean, which also the best religions for them just because of vampire chalid and this seems so wrong
I totally agree with that.
tesb : if you'll pardon my comments :combat auras last try:
from left to right: effect 1, effect 2, effect 3, range 1, range 2, range 3, targets 1, targets 2, targets 3
@sephi: take whatever picture you like, if you want them different tell me
effects : good ones. (maybe stars : none, 1-centered, 2-placed as now in the 2nd icone)
range : remove 1 star in each icone (like Drill 1 has no star), keep the stars that are on top of the "knife thrower guy".
targets : no need of stars, the number of guys being easy to read. If you make stars, maybe you should keep only the second icone, and have : no star/1 star centered/2stars. (it would allow for some spell having, without any extension already a multiple target, and each promotion adding some more target, but not being defined by +1 or +2 targeted units)
color of "aura related icones" (you'll have to check that with someone with a bit of autority) compared to the actual color codes
Deep blue is related to combat modifiers
strength:, firsts strikes....)so either make it reddish as "chanelling" to show it is arcane related
make it pinkinsh as "spell extension" to show it is spell-related
make it glow, light blue, light green or any other color if you think it is better.
or keep it deep blue as it is a nice color and it feels "official".
In my opinion, icones should be nice to look at, but more importantly they should be really easy to read, especially when if you imagine it on a lvl 20 guy, with more than 25 promotions. If it's your guy, you know him. if it's the AI's guy, it should be easy to read so as to know how dangerous he is but you can't "zoom in" it's promotions.
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