Making games more balanced and "punishing success"

[JosEPh_II]

Rev has just been timebombs in every AI, even in mods without crime. "Fixing" Rev just puts off the effect off. The AI gets worst in the longterm and REV doubles down on that in practice. Revolutions don't work as C2C intends, with effects that manifests being very different from the goals. This is why the idea of making the AI immune is seriously suggested. This will make it a complex mechanic that exists purely for difficulty.

I'm glad others have realized this about Rev. I've been fight Rev since Zappara let Kalimachus add it as an add-on for Rise of Mankind 1.0. But I was considered lunatic fringe back then and even up until recently when it comes to Rev and it's inevitable end for the AI.

Always stated if Only Rev affected the player and not the AI it could be a good challenge. But even Afforess and phungus (both played Major roles in Rev's development) argued with me that that was not the case. But it was and still is.

C2C ImPHO just does Not Need Rev. But unfortunately the Rev code is entwined everywhere in the mod like Trumpet Vine.

 

[Sakura Matou]

I love Rev tbh..one of my favorite parts of the Mod. I think if it goes my enjoyment of the mod will take a hit, keeps me on my toes and sometimes breaks up large empires and lets new ones emerge which is cool. I also like how it works with spies and city unhappiness is really a thing to worry about.

 

[Septentrion]

I love Rev tbh..one of my favorite parts of the Mod. I think if it goes my enjoyment of the mod will take a hit, keeps me on my toes and sometimes breaks up large empires and lets new ones emerge which is cool. I also like how it works with spies and city unhappiness is really a thing to worry about.

Isn't crime enough to keep you on your toes. As far as my experience, as soon as revolutions start, the game ends. Those large empires are the player's only rivals, and those new nations are tiny and crime ridden. The new ones end up conquered or as pets.

 

[Sakura Matou]

Isn't crime enough to keep you on your toes. As far as my experience, as soon as revolutions start, the game ends. Those large empires are the player's only rivals, and those new nations are tiny and crime ridden. The new ones end up conquered or as pets.

Crime does because of revolutions or the threat of one. I have been using the SVN build and not vanilla v37 and perhaps I'm just lucky but not nearly as many are occuring in my last two games as it was in base game and the large empires are holding together, As far as pets I don't use vassals and have it Disabled.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I love Rev tbh..one of my favorite parts of the Mod. I think if it goes my enjoyment of the mod will take a hit, keeps me on my toes and sometimes breaks up large empires and lets new ones emerge which is cool. I also like how it works with spies and city unhappiness is really a thing to worry about.

I would not take you long to get over it not being there, seriously. But then again it's not going anywhere in the foreseeable future. So it's a moot point of contention.

 

[Acularius]

To be honest, I like the concept of Rev, but in reality, I think the issue is that it assumes units are more easily mass produced and have lesser dependencies (Later gun units, for example, require both ammunition and guns, which assumes at least a size 6 city, and the production capacity to actually produce said buildings in a reasonable timeframe).

So as much as I conceptually like it, the AI can't handle the ticking time bombs and just when you think you have a good rival. A series of civil wars set off plummeting them into the abyss whereas, myself the player, can easily handle it and continue to develop, relatively unabated.
At points, I almost wish that upon conquering a city, and you decide to keep it (or forced too, city razing turned off, for example), that a building 'auto-builds' or leaves a marker of a 'foreign culture' that slowly degrades over time. This 'culture' is more resistant so to speak, providing additional crime (an underground element), that has a chance to spawn a criminal unit. It would also mean that destroying a civilization wouldn't just wipe the culture off the face of the Earth, as basic Beyond the Sword mechanics essentially do.

The only issue is that I don't know if there is such a thing as a 'building' that degrades... but I figure it would be an interesting concept and a better alternative to revolutions. Maybe in the later stages, it generates partisan and the like.
It would slow down conquest, but only in regards to maintaining the public safety in a freshly conquered region. Also, avoids generating new 'AI' that is an issue for Revolutions.

 

[Thunderbrd]

To be honest, I like the concept of Rev, but in reality, I think the issue is that it assumes units are more easily mass produced and have lesser dependencies (Later gun units, for example, require both ammunition and guns, which assumes at least a size 6 city, and the production capacity to actually produce said buildings in a reasonable timeframe).

So as much as I conceptually like it, the AI can't handle the ticking time bombs and just when you think you have a good rival. A series of civil wars set off plummeting them into the abyss whereas, myself the player, can easily handle it and continue to develop, relatively unabated.
At points, I almost wish that upon conquering a city, and you decide to keep it (or forced too, city razing turned off, for example), that a building 'auto-builds' or leaves a marker of a 'foreign culture' that slowly degrades over time. This 'culture' is more resistant so to speak, providing additional crime (an underground element), that has a chance to spawn a criminal unit. It would also mean that destroying a civilization wouldn't just wipe the culture off the face of the Earth, as basic Beyond the Sword mechanics essentially do.

The only issue is that I don't know if there is such a thing as a 'building' that degrades... but I figure it would be an interesting concept and a better alternative to revolutions. Maybe in the later stages, it generates partisan and the like.
It would slow down conquest, but only in regards to maintaining the public safety in a freshly conquered region. Also, avoids generating new 'AI' that is an issue for Revolutions.

Some good ideas that should all apply to ideas and culture adoption very fittingly.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

At points, I almost wish that upon conquering a city, and you decide to keep it (or forced too, city razing turned off, for example), that a building 'auto-builds' or leaves a marker of a 'foreign culture' that slowly degrades over time. This 'culture' is more resistant so to speak, providing additional crime (an underground element), that has a chance to spawn a criminal unit. It would also mean that destroying a civilization wouldn't just wipe the culture off the face of the Earth, as basic Beyond the Sword mechanics essentially do

Basic BtS already has a cultural effect like this in newly conquered cities. You have to put effort in to convert the city from its old nation to yours. Not much use is made of this as I don't think anyone knows how it works or how to enhance it. If a nation looses all of its cities I think this culture influence goes to zero in conquered cities due to happiness of the war being over.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Basic BtS already has a cultural effect like this in newly conquered cities. You have to put effort in to convert the city from its old nation to yours. Not much use is made of this as I don't think anyone knows how it works or how to enhance it. If a nation looses all of its cities I think this culture influence goes to zero in conquered cities due to happiness of the war being over.

We do have one option that influences how this works, or leverages it rather, and that's require complete kills. It's almost impossible to find every unit they have out there to end them fully so you tend to need to end the war and put up with the lingering culture dissatisfaction even once you've taken all cities. That's why my wife won't let us play with that on. She goes to war usually with the full intent to stop having to deal with revolutionary sentiment in her cities lingering from nations she left alive even in some small way as quickly as she can vanquish them entirely.