Making the Doviello more unique

[MagisterCultuum]

I never liked the Great Beasts-great people idea.

If I were to implement some sort of Great Beasts, I'd probably make them Doviello animal upgrade UUs, with level prereqs.

 

[Schmoe]

They are already incented to push military, but if a player wants to go with a civ of doviello warrior poets with a mix of culture buildings and axemen, more power to him.

Don't you mean "more power to his opponents?"

 

[xienwolf]

Does that mean they would have to have big discount for the taxes for the number of cities ?

Yes, along with the idea to limit them to 1 ring I proposed to remove the number of cities maintenance entirely, but keep or even enhance the distance maintenance costs.

 

[Pike the Hands]

Aren't the Doviello the most chaos-themed civ though, at least according to sphere/deity/etc? I can see your point about another buildings-spawning-units mechanic though.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I don't really think they should get random free units from buildings. They are not a builder civ. I think their units should randomly have a chance of being automatically upgraded for free after each battle (or maybe tied to their xp instead from actually winning battles, as they seem likely to fight amongst themselves and this would help them build up to war instead of simply be stronger once fighting), if the requirements for the upgrade are met. Battlemasters should definitely actually arise from battle instead of being upgraded though a spell.


Also, how about this: Any Doviello melee unit in a stack with a stronger melee unit should be able to cast a new "Challenge" spell, which essentially causes the caster and the strongest unit in the stack to both cast Arena Battle (or perhaps some sort of simulated combat based on what their combat odds would be, where both get injured and one likely dies). If the weaker unit (the caster) kills the stronger, then it gets a free upgrade, more xp, a unique name,...something. Either way they get some free xp.

 

[fuzzy_bunnies]

I don't really think they should get random free units from buildings. They are not a builder civ. I think their units should randomly have a chance of being automatically upgraded for free after each battle (or maybe tied to their xp instead from actually winning battles, as they seem likely to fight amongst themselves and this would help them build up to war instead of simply be stronger once fighting), if the requirements for the upgrade are met. Battlemasters should definitely actually arise from battle instead of being upgraded though a spell.

I like this idea... sort of like a wolf pack or werewolves (see, still a wolf theme!)... if the tech is available and there's an upgrade available, the beastman can automatically upgrade to the next unit. This, of course, would mean streamlining the beastman so that its restricted to the melee branch only maybe...

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

the idea of turning the doviello into a man/beast race sounds really really cool. I definitely support it.

 

[Gilg]

How about giving them no monuments and a unique market with a little culture? Or perhaps copper and a market would give those frosty fellows inspiration enough to leave a mark on the world of culture. A macho beastman would respect a large ornate axe wouldn't he? He'd also travel some distance to get his hands on it!?
If the doviellian cities still grow to large then set their new ub later!?
Perhaps it would also fit them with an increased building cost.... Their sparse industry would produce weapons, not hammers. Btw. their expertise with axes might give a bigger benefit from chopping forrests!?

Whatever happens.... please let the battlemasters be what their name indicates! They should have strength outside the tundra.

 

[bdmarti]

The following combination of mechanics:

1. Beastmen act as settlers and can found cities.
2. Beastmen can also join cities and add population, and their EXP gets added to the city as culture.
3. Doviello cities can, at any time, or under a special civic, turn all population into beastmen and turn all culture into experience for the resulting beastmen. -- in this way, the whole civ gan just get up and move to a new local. Buildings would be lost, but they don't need many buildings anyway.
4. The Doviello palace does not need to be rebuilt, but always appears in the highest culture city, and it will move if that changes.
5. Cities can only work the first ring, but as a result they can be founded closer together.
6. Doviello don't get their own workers, but aren't prevented from getting them as slaves.

I think this combination of mechanics would be interesting to play. You could let a city build up culture for a while and then purge the city for a useful army. Or you can turn a 4 population city into 4 separate 1 population cities.

I don't think it would be wise to let players only remove one population at a time, or else a player would set up a culture making city and then pump out units with more EXP than the alter would give. I do think that this mechanic is OK if the whole city, buildings and all, is lost when all population are turned into units as beastmen are most useful early in the game and if one waited until there was massive culture in the city to turn it into units one would be giving up quite a bit.

One interesting possible strategy for this mechanic might be to have high EXP beastmen settle around an opponents city and overwhelm it culturally.

Of course, one has to look at Doviello culture differently than other civ cultures or else this mechanic may not feel right.

anyway...I thought it might be interesing.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

these are all very interesting thoughts indeed. I don't like the "palace automatically goes to highest culture city" though, that might screw you up badly in a number of ways. the mechanic is cool though, make it "palace automatically relocates to the most profitable city ( maintenance-wise)" and it will be great.

 

[Jhoniten]

Since AI has a problem with adepts building nodes, How about an Old Croon unit? Give it worker AI but only able to build nodes and roads (trails from FF be more appropriate). Available at Elder Council so they can get their road builder quickly but have to wait on the nodes til KotE. or call it Village Elder.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I too think that could be interesting, except for the automatically changing capital part. Their palaces should simply be very cheaper.

I am a bit worried that you could easily spam Beastmen and then use them to get Supercities rivaling those of the Infernals and have very high production until the city starves. Making the mechanics so dependent on Beastmen wouldn't be good in the late game.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

that could be changed to needing battlemasters (or something) when they become available, I guess. not really sure about that, but it should do the trick.

 

[Chip56]

Or you only allow joining until there are for example 5 citizen.

 

[orangelex44]

I'd recommend not making the Beastman/population ratio not be 1:1. You'd still get 1 pop. for sacrificing a beastman, but you need 2 pop. to go back the other way...

Also, having 1 XP = 1 culture seems overpowered, as well. Maybe grant one free promotion per culture level?

You'd definately have to limit the number of pop. Beastmen could give to a city.

 

[Nor'easter]

bdmarti, that's an interesting set of ideas, although I wonder if the "moving cities" thing would be more suitable to the Malakim (they are supposed to be nomads, right, at least originally?).

If we use this for the Doviello, though, as proposed, I don't think that no workers is a good idea. Also, I would suggest adding something terrain-related, either a tundra-related bonus as suggested by the OP, or what Xienwolf proposed: a flat yield per Doviello tile, making the Doviello indifferent to what terrain they live on.

 

[Skitters]

I'd recommend not making the Beastman/population ratio not be 1:1. You'd still get 1 pop. for sacrificing a beastman, but you need 2 pop. to go back the other way...

Alternatively have additional Beastman convert into food stroes, with the amount of food being stored dwindling with city size.

Regarding the Palace, perhaps the capital should simply be the exception to the rule and can't be converted to Beastmen? (...well it still could by building the Palace elsewhere, and then converting the original).

 

[avalonnn]

I see the Doviello as Vikings with a meat-based economy rather than farming. I like the way they work now, especially as AI. They are very aggressive in the early game and often get a vassal, but rarely are powerful in the mid to late game. I think they could be teaked but would not want to see them rewritten.

 

[deadliver]

I see the Doviello as Vikings with a meat-based economy rather than farming. I like the way they work now, especially as AI. They are very aggressive in the early game and often get a vassal, but rarely are powerful in the mid to late game. I think they could be teaked but would not want to see them rewritten.

Dear lord your telling me. I hate starting near the Doviello, guaranteed war within a few turns of contact. Combine that with crystallized wild nodes and you are doomed.

 

[arcticnightwolf]

It's going to be fun ... (