making two fremen civs different

[Ahriman]

Is it not possible to have infantry able to enter desert waste tiles only within cultural borders? That would be the ideal solution IMO.

 

[davidlallen]

Is it not possible to have infantry able to enter desert waste tiles only within cultural borders? That would be the ideal solution IMO.

You have mentioned that idea several times, and I do not know how to do it. Rather, I am sure there is no way to move differently on identical terrain types based on cultural control, in either xml or python. I guess it would be a change inside the sdk.

BTW, I guess you have suggested this because it happens in some other mods. What happens when your city is destroyed, and your stack of units is standing in the water? Do they all drown?

 

[Ahriman]

Rather, I am sure there is no way to move differently on identical terrain types based on cultural control

Sorry, but don't triremes/galleys do this in vanilla? They cannot enter ocean tiles outside cultural borders with any tech, but can enter ocean tiles within cultural borders. Its been a long time since I played vanilla, I admit.

In Planetfall, infantry units are also able to enter coastal tiles (and get double moves there). I *thought* only within cultural borders, but it could be any coastal tiles. The infantry get a defense penalty when on coastal tiles, so the AI tries very strongly to make sure that its troops do not end the turn on a coastal tile.

Also, would it be so bad if all infantry were able to walk through desert wastes, but not deep desert? That way, they wouldn't use transports for islands connected by desert waste, but they would use transports to access islands separated by deep desert.

 

[davidlallen]

Sorry, but don't triremes/galleys do this in vanilla?

I would have sworn this was not the case, but a five minute experiment reveals you are correct. I don't think that is controlled by anything in the xml, so it must be deep inside the sdk logic of what moves where. We can put this on the list of things to figure out about sdk movement, along with your unload/pillage/move/repeat exploit.

Also, would it be so bad if all infantry were able to walk through desert wastes, but not deep desert? That way, they wouldn't use transports for islands connected by desert waste, but they would use transports to access islands separated by deep desert.

Of course then your next request would be for infantry to be able to cross one square of deep desert, right?

We are not trying to introduce micromanagement pain here, but our goal had been to do something like vanilla archipelago. If we cannot figure out an sdk change to allow this, the question is moot, but we can keep it in mind.

 

[Ahriman]

Of course then your next request would be for infantry to be able to cross one square of deep desert, right?

Nope, not me!

But there is the combination factor of a) realism and b) gameplay improvement from not being quite so limited with infantry. There is also an interesting strategic contrast if they are less mobile than vehicles in terms of moves per turn, but more mobile in terms of tiles they can enter.

I also would never play vanilla archipelago, I hate that script. Naval warfare in civ is bad (no interesting terrain variation, no real strategic placement of units, often only 1 combat unit per tech tier), and the AI is always mediocre at best at transport use. I think the goal of Dune should be to use the archipelago script to make landscapes that look cool, and many deserts that are difficult to cross, but not to trap the AI on tiny islands or replicate the generally poor (IMO) combat dynamics of the archipelago script.
Obviously, YMMV.

I will consider my preferences noted, however, and not bring them up again.

 

[arkham4269]

In Planetfall, infantry units are also able to enter coastal tiles (and get double moves there). I *thought* only within cultural borders, but it could be any coastal tiles. The infantry get a defense penalty when on coastal tiles, so the AI tries very strongly to make sure that its troops do not end the turn on a coastal tile.

I play Planetfall all the time and they indeed can only move in their cultural boundaries. However, they can unload onto an adjacent land tile that borders the water tile that is in their cultural boundaries.

I need to read this thread in full but I must say that perhaps the Fremen (or one of the Fremen Civs) could almost be like the old SMAC:AC Pirates faction in that they have a better ability to travel in dessert and can colonize more of the landmasses that are small and way out in the 'deep desert'