[GS] Mali Discussion Thread

[UWHabs]

Note that it's not automatically six but I understand what you're saying.

It does depend a lot what kind of "desert" starts they end up with. If they start on the edge with only 1 desert tile next to the city centre, then that might be a tough start for them. I think the ideal to me would be having maybe 3 or 4 desert tiles next to the cap, so that you still have 2-3 non-desert tiles to work early on.

They're also going to run into amenity issues early on if they do grow too fast. Probably not a problem if they have useful tiles to stretch to, but they're going to need to manage things to make sure they don't expand too fast into useless desert tiles.

 

[shaglio]

International trade routes might also help and you probably won't offend too many neighbors with conquering sprees as you wait to be attacked.

Genghis Khan smiles maniacally

 

[steveg700]

Anyone else feel like trade routes being protected from pillaging by a nearby military unit shouldn't just be a UU ability?

 

[steveg700]

It does depend a lot what kind of "desert" starts they end up with. If they start on the edge with only 1 desert tile next to the city centre, then that might be a tough start for them. I think the ideal to me would be having maybe 3 or 4 desert tiles next to the cap, so that you still have 2-3 non-desert tiles to work early on.

They're also going to run into amenity issues early on if they do grow too fast. Probably not a problem if they have useful tiles to stretch to, but they're going to need to manage things to make sure they don't expand too fast into useless desert tiles.

Do flood plains still count as desert?

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Anyone else feel like trade routes being protected from pillaging by a nearby military unit shouldn't just be a UU ability?

you should be able to escort/attach them. Maybe the "within four tiles" could be the unique part.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Anyone else feel like trade routes being protected from pillaging by a nearby military unit shouldn't just be a UU ability?

It's also Lisbon's suzerainty bonus.

 

[thecrazyscot]

I don't understand this reasoning. Precisely because they can easily support an army, they'll always be able to upgrade their units rapidly, and their unique unit rewards them financially for being at war while being a replacement for a unit you naturally want to tech to in domination games they seem perfectly well-suited for domination, moreso than most civs that aren't all-in on it. When you eventually run low on opponents you'll be limited in your trade income, but that's pretty minor by comparison with their military advantages.

"Worst victory type" was a poor choice of words on my part, as you're right that with all their gold they are pretty good at domination. I do think it makes the least use of their abilities though, and so personally would view it as the least interesting victory type to pursue with them as it doesn't take full advantage of what they have to offer.

It's actually 100/0.7 ~= 142.86 production, not 100*1.3 = 130 production.

Good catch! Simple math is hard!

 

[thecrazyscot]

I think units in forts should provide protection to trade routes within a radius, personally. Might add that to my better forts mod after GS is released.

 

[steveg700]

It's also Lisbon's suzerainty bonus.

Well, they protect ships over the seas without the need for a nearby ship. I'm thinking of a scenario with a trade route getting pillaged by a barb with 8 HP left while I've got a unit standing adjacent.

I think units in forts should provide protection to trade routes within a radius, personally. Might add that to my better forts mod after GS is released.

Oh, that's a nifty idea!

 

[Steamboat Willem]

It's also Lisbon's suzerainty bonus.

And one of the effects of a Reform the Coinage golden age.

 

[qadams]

IF there are any city states left to levy military from. Currently in Rise&Fall, the AI kills every city state they can get their hands on. If they do not change that AI behaviour, every civ with a city-state-related bonus will have a great disadvantage.

Yeah, it sure would be nice if there was some sort of reverse levy ability, where you could loan military units to a city-state for X number of turns.

 

[steveg700]

And one of the effects of a Reform the Coinage golden age.

To be clear, I was suggesting that any military unit should be capable of extending protection to an adjacent trader, not just one civ's UU.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Mali will probably want to focus their suzerainty efforts on City-states with unique improvements to fill up their desert tiles.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Mali will probably want to focus their suzerainty efforts on City-states with unique improvements to fill up their desert tiles.

Or TR benefits.

 

[seasnake]

Mali will probably want to focus their suzerainty efforts on City-states with unique improvements to fill up their desert tiles.

Nazca lines and Olmec Heads, all in the Sahara Desert! Man I love this game!

 

[Lord Lakely]

Mali will probably want to focus their suzerainty efforts on City-states with unique improvements to fill up their desert tiles.

Commercial and Religious City States first, you'll want to max gold and faith.

 

[DWilson]

My main concern with Mali is scaling production late game- while a bit of a mine's production will be appropriately converted into gold, later additions seem likely not to. In Civ VI, you can't split costs (for example, produce two thirds and buy the rest). As a result, they won't scale correctly in their purchase economy to cover their production penalties evenly. Sure, through other unique means they will more than balance that out, but every bonus spent balancing out maluses make them less of a net bonus.

I'll enjoy their uniqueness anyhow, but it doesn't seem like a great design. I would like it more if all mine production converted to gold at that same 4-1 ratio.

I'm not surprised we saw:

Georgia Maori Canada Incanada Mali is the worst civ yet!

Spoiler :

(But really it's still Georgia)

 

[Giskler]

 

[darkace77450]

Anyone else feel like trade routes being protected from pillaging by a nearby military unit shouldn't just be a UU ability?

No, but I do think military units should be able to link up with traders, making escorting them less tedious.

 

[bite]

No, but I do think military units should be able to link up with traders, making escorting them less tedious.

They do have a 4 tile range (8 if you add both sides) so you could just have a couple and have them in strategic locations